Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Soldier of Macedon]

It's happening now, it's happened yesterday, an imminent decision, one more week, bla, bla, bla......MACEDONIA, PULL OUT OF THESE TREACHEROUS NEGOTIATIONS.

[Daniel the Great]

The only name i will accept is Macedonia, there is no other name that i can accept.
It is time to end name negotiations once and for all, lets just hope that the Macedonian government dose not give into European and Greek pressure.

[MacoLionHeartSun]

Stop all negotiations with Greece and continue on as Macedonia for Macedonians and the world will follow, Greece is like a screaming little child, Macedonia stop paying attention and the child will soon listen.......

[Pelister]

People seem to forget that it is our history and identity that is on the negotiating table right now. That is not acceptable.

The Greeks want us exterminated. How to actually bring about the political extinction of the Macedonian Republic must have been something the New Greek spent alot of time thinking about. The solution to that problem was 'the negotiations'. I've said it before the 'negotiations' are nothing more than a vehicle to bring about the extermination of our Nation, our identity and our culture. The whole point of this process is to get the Macedonians to do it themselves, either unilaterally, which mens one man making the decision, or putting it to a vote. At best this means 25% of our country which are not Macedonians will have a say in the our extinction. Why would we even put ourselves in such a position? Our country stands on the brink of extinction, and I still hear UMD'ists spinning the usual bullshit that 'we have no choice'. They are not willing to see just how dangerous these talks are for us, or simply don't care.

[Pelister]

The only way Macedonia can 'progress' is to take one giant step back from the brink of potential extinction by disengaging from this negotiation process.

These idiots have been tinkering with our identity. I find it astounding that the name "Macedonia" is being put in 'BRACKETS' as though it means something else.

[Pelister]

They have to tell Nimetz to fk off, and leave these 'negotiations' behind now and for all time.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Stop all negotiations with Greece and continue on as Macedonia for Macedonians and the world will follow, Greece is like a screaming little child, Macedonia stop paying attention and the child will soon listen.......

Good statement, welcome to the MTO.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Can we confirm if a) this guy is Nimitz's buddy, and b) if this is really happening?

[Vangelovski]

Is OziMak still taking up valuable space here?

In all these long-winded rants, he still has not shown an understanding of the Interim Accord. Neither has he stated WHAT apocalyptic scenario HE thinks will befall Macedonia if it declares the Accord 'null and void' or WHY, nor has he provided any substantiated "grand strategy" as to what HE claims Macedonia must do before eventually declaring the Accord 'null and void'.

Lots of incoherent words strung together in long sentances may impress the empty-headed vassal politicians and their cheerleaders in Macedonia and the diaspora, but it will FAIL to impress independent thinking Macedonian activists or assert Macedonian freedom (though, its understood that the point of posts such as OziMak's is to SUBVERT Macedonian freedom).

[Bratot]

Vangelovski and others, before you attach to someone how "serville" or "ramkovist" and "IA supporter" he is, I would like to think and to answer the next:

You have a given condition - signed Interim Accord

1. There is NO obligation in the IA on us to use the reference and how to call ourselfs.
If I'm wrong please point me to such article where we are obligated to use the reference - pay attention - "a reference" and the acronym used by the Greek side "fyrom" is their own invention non existing in the IA.

So we are free to use our name - Republic Macedonia, by fact we haven't accepted a name change with the IA and only to discuss and find a "mutual" solution on the name of the country. While that process is actual, we are formally adressed in UN as "former Yugoslav republic of MACEDONIA".

2. Now the question I would like to get an answer from is this;

In your opinion, in which way we could get rid of the IA easier:

a) after becoming members under the temporarly reference in NATO/EU or
b) before becoming their members

In my opinion we could more easily get rid of the reference within such structure and to cross this obstacle with total success.

That's why Greece has vetoed and didn't let us to become members even under the temp. reference for which they were OBLIGATED to do according the IA.

So, if I should choose between waiting additional 5 years as member of NATO/EU under the reference and later achieve my goal in rejecting the IA as "old subject" or prevailing usage of Macedonia instead of the reference,or wait additional 5 years ALSO under the reference but NOT as a NATO/EU member and to be forced with a criteria to change my name if I want to enter these org. than I would rather chose the first variant.

So if I would meanwhile accept entering under the reference in NATO/EU for the purpose of better possition to get rid of the same, does this makes me all the worst in your eyes and I am anti-macedonian as much as the traitors working for Greece or you can show some rational thinking and came up with a strategy how to achieve our aim, other than I presented as an example.

I think you should make a difference in approach instead of libel every one for being traitors.

[Makedonetz]

Its sickening indeed we even are in this position to begin with!
This Lubjo guy seems he is pushing greece or aiding in them to change our name to gain power into the EU but its obsured. I hope the peoples voices are heard, our entire history is on the line and a simple handshake can end it all? not right

[Vangelovski]

Bratot,

Firslty, the Interim Accord DOES require Macedonia to use FYROM in international organisations.

Secondly, if we do enter the EU/NATO as FYROM what makes you think Greece will allow us to do so without a more "permanent" agreement and EU/NATO guarantees that will prevent us from making any changes back?

Thirdly, you really need to read the Interim Accord before you make further assumptions (like the one you have above) and then come up with hypotheticals based on these false presuppositions.

Finally, I think you are far from being a traitor, however, you need to gain a basic understanding of the fundamental issues and principles surrounding this problem.

[Risto the Great]

1. Upon entry into force of this Interim Accord, The Party of the First Part agrees not to object to the application by or the membership of the Party of the Second Part (=Macedonia) in international, multilateral and regional organizations and institutions of which the Party of the First Part is a member; however, the Party of the First Part reserves the right to object to any membership referred to above if and to the extent of the Party of the Second Part is to be referred to in such organization or institution differently than in paragraph 2 of the United Nations Security Council resolution 817 (1993).

Bratot, what evidence do you rely on that once Macedonia gets in to these organisations as FYROM, that it will be able to subsequently change its name?

[Soldier of Macedon]

That's wishful thinking. If we accept membership by the acronym we have shown that we are willing to concede on our national integrity. If we can't do the right thing before we enter the lion's den, then we won't be able to do anything right once in there.

[Pelister]

That's wishful thinking. If we accept membership by the acronym we have shown that we are willing to concede on our national integrity. If we can't do the right thing before we enter the lion's den, then we won't be able to do anything right once in there.

I agree. Every day the acronym exists is another day we demonstrate to the whole world that we are willing to concede/compromise. We should be asking for NOTHING LESS than full recognition immediately, and then keep asking for it, and if that fails, ask of it again until someone in these institutions and clubs wakes the fk up to what is going on.