Turkish forces liquidated 15 women PKK fighters

[Zarni]

I just think all people have rights. Don't you?

Well yeah but matters of State are more complex then views about Individual Human Rights. Look at the UN it has changed to actually support NATO military actions what a change of the romantic view we had of the UN a quarter of a century ago.

They did. They call it the Greek civil war nowadays. They lost because the Americans threw the modern equivalent of billions of dollars at the Macedonian "terrorists" to make them go away.

I can't really understand what else you were trying to say.

Let me put it politely when Macedonians take up arms we are fighting for our own rights it is legitimate and true terrorist to others who cares I dont.

[George S.]

So what is the solution here people how do we give a place to the kurds that they can call their homeland kurdistan??Does anyone think using terror tactics is the right way..Who should decide for the Kurds where to go eg UN???Should the un just decide of what's to be done or ask each state to make a contribution to the sum total ie to make a homeland for the kurds.Also doing so we have to acknowledge other stateless peoples.So do people think there can be some kind of solution to the kurds.??

[Big Bad Sven]

Hey Big Bad .

Next time you choose to quote me or accuse me of something, read my thread to its entirety. Otherwise keep me out of you trash.

Its a legitimate question. I want to know if the majority of griks support a "unified kurdistan" that includes land from armenia, a key allie of grease.

Im going to take a calculated guess and say no.

It would be ironic if the hypothetical situation of "unified kurdistan" comes to fruitation and greece supports the armenian side in a war to get land back from kurdistan, after years of supporting the PPK, wouldnt it be say hypocritical?

Maybe thats why you refuse to answer the question

[EgejskaMakedonia]

You either believe in human rights or you don't, any other option is entirely hypocritical. Nor is it logical or right to expect the Macedonian minority to be treated fairly, then to say 'who cares, kill them all' in regards to another minority. How many times does it need to be said for some of you to understand? It forms the basic principles of morality and ethics, not to mention your own integrity.

Perhaps all of this negativity coming out of Macedonia has completely desensitised some of you. Before you head down Brian's path, wake up and realise that all humans are born equal and deserve basic human rights and respect.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

VMRO were terrorists to most people back 100 years ago.

I'm sure if Vlado Chernozemski was permitted to go ahead and blow himself up in the League of Nations building, zarni would praise him as some kind of hero...

[Zarni]

I'm sure if Vlado Chernozemski was permitted to go ahead and blow himself up in the League of Nations building, zarni would praise him as some kind of hero...

No I wouldn't because Macedonians fought with a spirit of honour unlike some Fundamentalist Muslim

[Zarni]

EgejskaMakedonia you are missing the point again and again, National Interests are not bound by Individual Universal Human Rights ince when have the great powers been bound to uphold them look at US Interventions and now Humanitarian Interventions after 1999.

I myself see nobody cares about us and I dont care about anyone but Macedonia and us but we need friends.

And everyone is a hypocrite dont be ashamed of it. I too had the belief playing the game according to wholesome values has it rewards but it does not in the Global Geo-Politics
is rough, very rough.

Personal live, love and work they are for another discussion this is about World Political manoeuvring it is a very different angle, Come on people get it that is why Macedonians continue to be trapped in spiders web with the Greeks and cant exercise their collective rights.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

No I wouldn't because Macedonians fought with a spirit of honour not like some Fundamentalist Muslim.

But wouldn't it be in the interests of Macedonia?

I've noticed in this forum for quite some time there are a number of members who are extremely anti-muslim. Perhaps Islam has a higher percentage of 'followers' who are engaged in terrorist activities in this day and age, but terrorism has never been confined to a single race or religion. There are plenty of people who use any religion as an excuse to commit crimes.

It's actually quite interesting that instead of showing dislike for Albanians (in Macedonia's set of circumstances), they will just generalise it to hating all Muslims. Yet when it comes to our 'Orthodox brothers,' nobody 'hates' Christianity after the acts against humanity committed by Greeks and Serbians alike. I'm saying this from a Christian point of view. Just an interesting factor I've realised with a minority of members.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

EgejskaMakedonia you are missing the point again and again, National Interests are not bound by Individual Universal Human Rights

Since when have the great powers been bound to uphold them look at US Interventions and now Humanitarian Interventions after 1999

I myself see nobody cares about us and I dont care about anyone but Macedonia and us

I do understand that, and I even mentioned it in one of my earlier posts. But you aren't the Macedonian political system. You are an individual. So how does that warrant you to say 'kill them all,' when you expect Macedonians to be treated fairly...purely on an individual level.

Perhaps that is one of the reasons the world constantly perceives America negatively.

[George S.]

Self interest should be intertwined with the macedonian cause.Human rights whils't it is important need not be a reason to derail us from choosing what is right for macedonia.Self interst does not conflict allways with human rights.If nations are complying with simple requests of human rights these are basic ones.Asking for more rights could affect sovereignit of a nation.The borders of european countries are mean't to be inviolable that is they cannot be changed.So asking of borders to be changed will be met with a cold expression.No one want's to give their land.Also no matter how much
support macedonia gives the kurds they are not going to change anything.
So we need to think smart about it We really are powerless to do anything for the kurds.
We have to think of ourselves for a change & side with the turks as they are our friends.
The turks have gone out of the way to recognize & help us.They have invested & are investing heavily in macedonia.Seeing we are friends we can still appeal to them in case there are human right's abuses.If there are any we can voice our concern.
Macedonia can only do so much it must do first for itself.It doesn't mean all sensitivities must be abandoned .We can still behave in a civil manner.Macedonia must advance forward not backwards.

[Vangelovski]

I gave a scenario were just if, just if, Turkey were to engage in actions against the Kurdish PKK and asked Skopje to uphold support even when let's say for arguments sake....a EU Commission were to condemn it Would you all see it fit to lump our support for a Brussels team or have unconditional support for Turkey and risk loosing a partner like we did when we went for Taiwan's friendship and sacrificed China. And on what premise a complex conflict involving the Kurds who only Onur is qualified to speak about.

That reminds me of the relationship Washington has for the State of Isreal unwavering no matter what. Turkey is Macedonia's most stead fast partner and alley I can't think of any European Country with the same relationship, can any of you?

I don't want your BS scenario's, I want to know what YOU think Macedonia's national interests are and how YOU think Turkey has helped achieve them.

[Onur]

Don't play the goldfish with me Onur. Besides, a state and a nation are two completely separate entities and you are now again denying the existence of a Kurdish nation, violating their basic rights. Further, the Kurdish people, who are indigenous to Kurdistan, have been there much longer than the Turkish settler population who are occupiers and failed colonists.

And we know that there are millions of people who says this;
"Don't play the goldfish with me Vangelovski. Besides, a state and a nation are two completely separate entities and you are now again denying the existence of a illyrian nation, violating their basic rights. Further, the Albanian people, who are indigenous to Illyria, have been there much longer than the slavic settler population who are occupiers and failed colonists."


Every scenario and argument you throw up here, can be valid for the so-called super duper Illyrian nation scenario.

[Vangelovski]

And we know that there are millions of people who says this;
"Don't play the goldfish with me Vangelovski. Besides, a state and a nation are two completely separate entities and you are now again denying the existence of a illyrian nation, violating their basic rights. Further, the Albanian people, who are indigenous to Illyria, have been there much longer than the slavic settler population who are occupiers and failed colonists."


Every scenario and argument you throw up here, can be valid for the so-called super duper Illyrian nation scenario.

Onur, that's verging on the delusional and we have historical facts to back it up. But, where have I ever denied the existence of an Albanian nation or that fact that they are indigenous to Albania. When have I ever called for an occupation of Albania?

BTW, this is your last warning in relation to the slav terminology. I have never called the Turks anything but Turks and if you want to remain here, you will respect our identity.

[fatso]

Its a legitimate question. I want to know if the majority of griks support a "unified kurdistan" that includes land from armenia, a key allie of grease.

Im going to take a calculated guess and say no.

It would be ironic if the hypothetical situation of "unified kurdistan" comes to fruitation and greece supports the armenian side in a war to get land back from kurdistan, after years of supporting the PPK, wouldnt it be say hypocritical?

Maybe thats why you refuse to answer the question

Sven,

You have challenged me before with your hypothetical questions. The reason I sit idle on responding to you is because it doesn't apply to me.

My problem is only with Onur, because I believe he is not sincere. If muslim Albanians took over Tetovo , your friend would have a grin on his face. I can assure you of that.
I believe Turkey's friendship with Macedonia is bullshit politics. No different from Greece supporting the Kurds. I have been kicked off Greek forums because I challenged Greeks and their sincerity to a Kurdistan nation. Their friendship is no different from Macedonias and Turkey's.
Think of who supported you in your last conflict with Albanian militants.

Not Turkey.

[fatso]

I like you Fatso but now you are being just plain silly

Killing Terrorist scum is good for the Darwinian order or don’t you agree

When I see when and children being beaten and hear about the raping of young women...come on Zarni.

Notice how your friend parades through this forum blaming everyone else about their murderous past , yet he won't admit to anything.