Turkish forces liquidated 15 women PKK fighters

[George S.]

Quote "Part of the slave mindset includes being grateful if someone calls us by our name". Think about it."Were not talking of mindsets here here is a genuine trust /dignity/a healthy respect of who people are,it's a different greatfullness to a slave mentality.I think it's the only thing that macedonia has done that stands out as genuine rather than enslaved mentality.Again as you guys take it all for granted.What if they went the other way macedonia would be like begging to be recognized.Turkey did it without promting they immediately recognized macedonia .We have a genuine greatfullness not the slave mentalty type.So i beg to differ whils't i do share similar sentiments when macedonia fails to do something it's the slave mindset on occassions.
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[EgejskaMakedonia]

Turkey did it without promting they immediately recognized macedonia .We have a genuine greatfullness not the lave mentalty type.

So you're more inclined to believe that Turkey would side with Greece in regards to Macedonia? Who's to say their recognition of Macedonia isn't based on their political discrepancies with Greece? How can we truly know if their intentions were genuine and promoting rights when recognising Macedonia under its' constitutional name?

I agree with Tom 100% in this case, bar the fact that personally, I like Turkey and believe they are somewhat genuine towards Macedonia. However we can never be sure. Perhaps the relationship you point out George stems more from the notion that the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend.'

That aside, you are still getting confused with the basic principles of human rights that must apply to everyone. The circumstances of the Kurds and Albanians are sufficiently different, therefore the latter is deemed as irrelevant. That has been proved beyond doubt, yet some of you continue to have issues with comprehending these points.

Your posts in this thread are all over the place George, and honestly, they are becoming quite frustrating to read. I still don't think you have a clue which side you're on, and that is evident with the number of contradictions present in each post. Take a break and have a think about what you're writing. I seriously thought this nonsense would have been done and dusted 5 pages ago.

[George S.]

Turkey was the first country to recognize the Republic of Macedonia with its constitutional name and to open an Embassy in Skopje. The Embassy was inaugurated in the wake of Macedonia’s independence, on 30 April 1993. Yet, Turkey, who has close historical, cultural and social ties with Macedonia, has had a consular representation in Skopje all along. Following the end of the Ottoman Turkish presence in Macedonia in 1912, precipitated by the Balkan Wars, Turkey opened a Consulate General in Skopje on 19 August 1925. Barring the hard times of the Second World War, the Consulate General continued to function until Macedonia’s independence.

The Republic of Turkey and the Republic of Macedonia enjoy excellent bilateral relations in all fields. Turkey considers Macedonia to be one of the major international actors in promoting peace and security, as well as enhancing prosperity and development in the Balkans and in the regions beyond. We will continue to support Macedonia’s full membership to the Euro-Atlantic structures.

The primary mission of our Embassy is to represent Turkey in this country and protect the rights and interests of our citizens, while further developing our relations with the Republic of Macedonia. Together with my colleagues, we strive to strengthen the political, military, economic, cultural and social relations with the host country.

Macedonian citizens of Turkish origin constitute a strong bridge among Turkey and Macedonia. We see them as an important tie which brings Turkey and Macedonia closer to each other, as well as an important component in enriching and diversifying the cultural and social life.

In addition to the Office of the Defense Attaché, there are Trade, Economy, Culture and Social Affairs Counselors who are attached to the Embassy. The Turkish International Cooperation Agency (TICA) also has a Program Coordination Office in Skopje. Furthermore, we have an Honorary Consul General as well as an Honorary Consul in Bitola (Manastır) where Atatürk, the founder of the Republic of Turkey, received his military education and an Honorary Consul in Ohrid (Ohri). All these offices work in close cooperation in an effort to further promote our relations with Macedonia and better serve our citizens, our cognate and our Macedonian friends.

This website aims to provide you with up-to-date and useful information on our activities and to support you in promptly completing your possible transactions. We will appreciate your comments and contributions for improving our website, as well as our services.

Best wishes and regards,

Gürol SÖKMENSÜER

Ambassador

[George S.]

History

Due to historical and cultural mutualities and human bonds Macedonia and Turkey have very close and friendly relations.Shortly after Macedonia declared its independence from the former Yugoslavia in 1991 Turkey recognized Macedonia's sovereignty as one of the first countries and also recognizes the latter under its constitutional name Republic of Macedonia, which is recognized by 130 countries worldwide.[2] Bilateral relations where established on 26 August 1992. Macedonia has an embassy in Ankara and a consulate–general in Istanbul, while Turkey has an embassy in Skopje and a consulate-general in Bitola. Also, Turkish is a co-official language in two municipalities, besides of Macedonian.[citation needed]
[edit]Euro-atlantic aspirations

Both countries are European Union candidate countries and share the common goal of accession to it.[4] Turkey is a strong supporter of Macedonia's accession to the NATO, of which Turkey is a member country since 1952.
[edit]Macedonian citizens of Turkish origin

Main article: Turks in the Republic of Macedonia
There is a 77,959 people strong Turkish minority in Macedonia, which makes up 3.85% of the total population of the country.[5] The Turks of Macedonia serve as a bridge between the two nations.[1] They also have a political party in Macedonia, the Democratic Party of Turks.
[edit]Cooperation in culture

Macedonia's and Turkey's cooperation in culture dates back to 1995, when it was regulated with an international agreement. Both ministries of culture are constantly expanding this cooperation with several programs. The last program was valid between 2004 and 2007.
On 22 April 2009 in Istanbul, the ministers of culture of both countries signed a new program for cooperation in the sphere of culture for the period between 2009 and 2011. According to the program both sides shall intensify the cooperation in different segments of culture and art. Additionally, the countries shall promote each others culture and open Cultural Information Centres - Macedonia in Istanbul and Turkey in Skopje. On that occasion, the Macedonian minister also announced that the Macedonian government decided to renew the house of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk's parents, located in the village of Kodžadžik near Debar. The Turkish authorities allowed Macedonian archaeologists to make a copy of the Alexander Sarcophagus that afterwards will be displayed in a Macedonian museum.
There is also active cooperation in music, with reciprocal participation of artists on cultural events and performances of folklore ensembles. Also, the popular Turkish TV series Elveda Rumeli (Farewell Rumelia) is filmed in the Macedonian city Bitola.
Turkey and Macedonia also have good economic relations. There are several Turkish companies present in Macedonia, notably TAV and Sisecam.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

George, I'm not looking for articles and letters. I want to know YOUR opinion, and one that is set in concrete, not one that alters every time the direction of the wind changes.

[George S.]

Em What if turkey chose not to recognise macedonia that some have said they take it as norm for a country to recognize another.It just so happens that greece & turkey don't like each other so turkey chose to support macedonia i read from some of the articles that the turks go back to the 1920,s in macedonia.My opinion is turkey's support of macedonia is genuine & not how certain mto members are non trusting.They wouldn't have a friend in the world.
Quote"from the notion that the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend.'No this is genuine mutual trust that has been built over the years since the 1920's.Turkey is aware how the turks are in macedonia & they are looked after & given rights as minorities.
as mentrioned in one of the articles i have shown.So certain members don't trust the turks as they beleive that the past is the past.
Quote" the basic principles of human rights that must apply to everyone' i'm talking of macedonia's case how minority albanians can make up a case that we owe them rights(it's a lie ,a pretext to cause conflict in the region).I have never said thatI'm agains't genuine human rights.What rights belong to the albanians who only want secession to connect with kosovo.Also THe kurds case is different & in massive proportions who is going to give them a homeland.Unless the un or somebody creates one no body is going to give them anything.Also i don't like them using terorists methods to get their way or to achieve their goals blowing up women. etc.So my main concer is macedonia to get the most recognition it desrves,Not to escalate to war with the albanians.Not to secede our territory to them.With the turks we have good neigbourly relations.Do away with formalitie like visas etc make it esy for business etc.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

Em What if turkey chose not to recognise macedonia that some have said they take it as norm for a country to recognize another.It just so happens that greece & turkey don't like each other so turkey chose to support macedonia i read from some of the articles that the turks go back to the 1920,s in macedonia.

I already referred to this question in my previous post. Why on earth would Turkey support Greece on such an issue? We don't know whether this decision was made in respect for Macedonia or simply to piss off Greece.

Like I said, I personally see the Turks favourably...regardless of whether or not they are a genuine friend of Macedonia. My problem here is that the understanding of a few members in this thread is completely flawed. Sucking up to other countries can be counter-productive, DPMNE is a prime example of this.

[United MKD]

I find it strange that some of you are undermining our friendship with Turkey. Who cares if they are being extra 'nice' to us because of ours and their differences with Greece. Fact is we have never had a problem with Turkey politically they have always been our allies when it comes to our name, for NATO, economically Turkish companies are always looking to invest in Macedonia I mean just look at what they did to our airport in Skopje.

Vangelovski you say you expect Macedonia to have normal relations with every state, well we don't and we won't because we are not a normal state with normal problems, we have issues with every single neighbour of ours. So when Turkey was one of the first countries to recognise our state and our constitutional name it was a sign of goodwill.

Tell me simply out of Germany, France, Belgium and Turkey who is the closer ally here? You say the absolute minimum requritement for any state is to abide by basic fundamental standards which includes recognising our name, so if Turkey is at its absolute minimum what can we say about the others?

[George S.]

Unitemk they just take it for granted & they shoot the messenger & not really look at the message that we are lucky to have a friend in turkey.THey are ducking & weaving & trying to turn it this way or that.THe fact is we will not find a more caring friend than turkey.THey have missed this point & are siding with each other again'st me i detect a bit of racism & resentmant.Some even said it's again'st the cause to be fraternising with the likes of turkey.Grow up don't live in the past & stop bSby blaming me you knoe what i have said i'm pleased my country has developed friendly relations.

[George S.]

To all & sundry who don't approve of the friendly relations of turkey &macedonia stop being racists that you don't like it & hiding by attacking me personally it won't get you nowhere.I have seen it before you know what people will leave if you treat them like shit.Treat them friendly & they'll stay.This thread is mean't to be on the turks liquidating womem PKK & look what it's turning into,

[EgejskaMakedonia]

I'm not disputing our relationship with Turkey. What I am disputing is your on-going stance against Kurds based on this relationship.

You're prepared to call me a racist in your last few posts, when I have not said one thing that could possibly be deemed as racist in this entire thread. I'm merely looking out for human rights, which is quite the opposite. You on the other hand seem to have no problem jumping to conclusions and labelling a minority as 'terrorists' or 'cockroaches' which is on the brink of racism.

I'll say it as many times as it needs to be said George, for the sake of us all.

PLEASE READ WHAT YOU ARE SAYING BEFORE YOU POST!

[EgejskaMakedonia]

I find it strange that some of you are undermining our friendship with Turkey. Who cares if they are being extra 'nice' to us because of ours and their differences with Greece. Fact is we have never had a problem with Turkey politically they have always been our allies when it comes to our name, for NATO, economically Turkish companies are always looking to invest in Macedonia I mean just look at what they did to our airport in Skopje.

Vangelovski you say you expect Macedonia to have normal relations with every state, well we don't and we won't because we are not a normal state with normal problems, we have issues with every single neighbour of ours. So when Turkey was one of the first countries to recognise our state and our constitutional name it was a sign of goodwill.

Tell me simply out of Germany, France, Belgium and Turkey who is the closer ally here? You say the absolute minimum requritement for any state is to abide by basic fundamental standards which includes recognising our name, so if Turkey is at its absolute minimum what can we say about the others?

Personally I agree.
I think Turkey has provided more assistance to Macedonia than most other nations. But why the hell should this exclude them from criticism?

Say your best friend goes around bashing people for no apparent reason, are you going to support their actions just because they're your best friend? Or will you criticise their actions?

[George S.]

em originally you were more for the kurds,where did i say em is a racist i said the way people are carrying on i never named anyone as a racist!!
Em i agree with your last commentI think Turkey has provided more assistance to Macedonia than most other nations. But why the hell should this exclude them from criticism?

Say your best friend goes around bashing people for no apparent reason, are you going to support their actions just because they're your best friend? Or will you criticise their actions? the only provblem i have is some members (nameless)will twist it to their advantage as well as shoot the messenger.Why bevcause the resnt being friendly with turkey.

[George S.]

Iwas just speaking to one of my friends in the bitola regions through sKype.I asked him what he thought was on the macedonian turkish relations.He said it's the govt they decide these things they never ask the public.He said he doesn't mind friendliness but he said the turks killed his grandfather &other relatives more than 100 years ago, so you can understand it's a touchy subject.He said personnally he doesn't like it.

[Vangelovski]

the macedonian cause it's to be friendly with other states in the region & the whole world,having bilateral relations,embassies.Working on projects both in macedonia & in turkey,abolishing visas etcIn other words working for the betterment of the whole of the country that's the cause.

Here we have it from George. Let me know when you grow up and maybe we can continue the debate.