Macedonians in Greece called Macedonian language to become official

[Voshtarets]

All isn't lost Voshtarets, but I still believe the only hope is a strong Macedonian republic.

IMHO Risto, the Republic is a lost cause. We have 40 percent of historic Macedonia pretending to speak for the whole, and of that 40 percent at least 30 percent wants nothing to do with even the 40 percent. The Republic needs to be flushed down the toilet, and we need a fresh start to finding a solution to the Macedonian Question. Yes, it remains unsolved.
Please don't get me wrong. I wish to see an independent Macedonia, but only a united independent Macedonia. And it will have to include Macedonians, Greeks, Albanians, Serbs, Bulgarians as equals, with none considered a "minority" (oh, how I hate that term!). Macedonia is for everybody, or for nobody.

[Phoenix]

.
Please don't get me wrong. I wish to see an independent Macedonia, but only a united independent Macedonia. And it will have to include Macedonians, Greeks, Albanians, Serbs, Bulgarians as equals, with none considered a "minority" (oh, how I hate that term!). Macedonia is for everybody, or for nobody.

Yeah and how is that gonna work...?

[Bij]

Great initiative.

Travelled across the border whilst in Maco over XMAS for the first time in years with the hubby, and was surprised at how many people spoke to us in Macedonian. He was asking me something in Macedonian and I was translating for the locals in English, and they all responded in Macedonian! The last time I was there, nobody was speaking Macedonian to us at all.

When driving around, there was a Macedonian radio station playing playing music/talking and callers were constantly coming through. It reminded me of being a Macedonian kid growing up in Rockdale in the 90s.

[Risto the Great]

Bij, was your husband surprised?
I am really quite annoyed at some of the ignorance in the republic about their lost brothers and sisters in the many occupied parts of Macedonia. Not all of the republic but, seriously, some really need to understand their history a lot better!

[Voshtarets]

Yeah and how is that gonna work...?

Phoenix, I do not know how it is going to "work" to be honest. But I do sincerely feel that a divided Macedonia is like the divided child in King Solomon's fable. It is a living wound crying to be healed and restored to wholeness. It will take a radically new way of thinking to achieve it, I grant that. But as I believe there is a God in heaven, one day He will reveal to us the way. It will be based on the power of love, not force of arms. Like we say, Gospo e Golem.

[DedoAleko]

google translate:

Rules of the European Union for Macedonia not apply to greece



The European Union is based on respect for human dignity, freedom, democracy, equality, the rule of law, human rights, including minority rights. This signature in the EU Treaty guaranteed senior representatives of the Member States of the Union, including greek President Karolos Papoulias. But the reality in greece for the respect of minority rights of the Macedonians is different from what has been written.

"Diary" EU addressed to multiple addresses with the question whether the union react because greece as a Member State fails to ensure their rights and freedoms. The occasion was our petition Macedonians Ovcharani mailed to local government primary school in greece with a request to formalize the Macedonian language, which so far in the EU Member States, which should be leading by democratic standards, is not the case. Cabinet of European Commission Vice-President Viviane Reding, asked us to give particular case through which it can be seen that the Macedonians are discriminated. Once they send the report of the United Nations Independent Expert Gay Mac-Dugal, through which she urged greece to allow Macedonians to freely express their ethnic identity from Brussels shifted the ball to Athens.

- I want to remind you that the EU Treaties do not replace national legislation for the protection of minorities. National courts first address to the citizens shtto discriminated Mina Andreeva replied from the office of Vice President of the European Commission. EU Special Representative for Human Rights and former greek Foreign Minister Stavros Lambrinidis him forward issues of the "Journal" the rights of Macedonians in greece, who refuses to answer for nine months after being in office. So far, his office silent whether Greece as a member of the EU respects minority rights which strictly evaluate candidates. Cabinet EU High Representative for Foreign Policy, Ketrin Ashton, who is head of Lambrinidis, said that he was concerned with human rights in third countries, not the EU.

- The situation in the Member States, the response should look for Commissioner Reding's office told us Maya Kocijanchikj Ashton.

So far, we received no response either from the EU office in Athens.

One of the few who openly speaks in greece that the country should recognize the rights of Macedonians Panayote Dimitras, president of the greek Helsinki Committee for Human Rights. According to him, it can be done through international pressure on the country. Dimitras for "Dnevnik" commented that it is good that the Macedonians from the village Ovcharani in Northern greece by petition asked the Macedonian language school official.

- The request is legitimate and, as more international organizations ~ told greece native languages of minorities should be respected and where there is a sufficient number of requirements, such as in Ovcharani / Meliti mother tongue should be used officially. But in this case, it would mean official recognition of minority whose existence the Greek state does not recognize. On the other hand, elected mayor Ovcharani / Meliti has the authority to do it, to begin to use language in public institutions that fall under its jurisdiction - says her comments. He points out that Mayor Ovcharani it can do under international conventions and under greek law.

- You should do it, and to leave it to the authorities to decide how they react - says her comments.

Question of the Macedonian minority explosive

Fear of greece by international pressure for the rights of Macedonians can perhaps best be seen through the diplomatic cables, which published "Wikileaks". It is a letter from the U.S. embassy in Athens to visit Gay Mac Dugal, a UN expert in greece in 2008. The U.S. Embassy informed that the Greek media has linked the timing of the visit of the UN expert on the name dispute. Further writes that Mac Dugal Athens gave an interview to indicate that there is no hidden agenda. In depeshata states that Greek journalists have gone mad that she did not reveal with whom he met while investigating minority rights, and why you went to Florina where lived unrecognized Macedonian minority.

"The visit Mac Dugal would be controversial in greece at any time due to its minority interest; country in accordance with Lozanskiot agreement recognizes only the Muslim minority. But a visit to Mac Dugal was even more complicated because the public minority problems were related to the dispute, "said depeshata where he explains that previously Gruevski sent a letter to Karamanlis and the other leaders by urging greece to recognize the existence of a Macedonian minority. greek Embassy emphasizes that these issues are explosive and Mac Dugal was wary of the press conference to reject association with the name dispute.

Silent for eight months Lambrinidis

Are d. Lambrinidis as EU Special Representative for Human Rights insists his country to implement the judgments of the European Court, including those of the Macedonian party - Rainbow?

x Are the Macedonians in greece can expect fair treatment from Lambrinidis as EU Special Representative, given that he is a former Minister of greece, and the greek government denies the existence of a Macedonian minority?

J. Are d. Lambrinidis believes that his country should accept that there are other minorities, except Muslim?

x Does he, greece should accept the recommendations of the Human Rights Commissioner of the Council of Europe, among which is that the country should ratify the Framework Convention on Minorities?

izvor: http://dnevnik.mk/?ItemID=384639D971...82D2DC9B5CF1D4

[Daskalot]

IMHO Risto, the Republic is a lost cause. We have 40 percent of historic Macedonia pretending to speak for the whole, and of that 40 percent at least 30 percent wants nothing to do with even the 40 percent. The Republic needs to be flushed down the toilet, and we need a fresh start to finding a solution to the Macedonian Question. Yes, it remains unsolved.
Please don't get me wrong. I wish to see an independent Macedonia, but only a united independent Macedonia. And it will have to include Macedonians, Greeks, Albanians, Serbs, Bulgarians as equals, with none considered a "minority" (oh, how I hate that term!). Macedonia is for everybody, or for nobody.

40% of historical Macedonia?
Macedonian question?
To include Macedonians, Greeks, Albanians, Serbs, Bulgarians?
Macedonia for everybody?
Or for nobody?

Voshtarets it seems to me at least that you have been influenced by both Greek and Bulgarian propaganda when stating the above.
Is that so?

[Voshtarets]

Voshtarets it seems to me at least that you have been influenced by both Greek and Bulgarian propaganda when stating the above.
Is that so?

A Voshtarets influenced by foreign propaganda?

[Daskalot]

A Voshtarets influenced by foreign propaganda?

Then why do you give significance to the points that you have made?
You are suggesting that the Republic of Macedonia is really not Macedonia ie only 40% of historical.
That Macedonia should encompass all of our enemies and they should be on equal footing as us Macedonians, if not then Macedonia should not exist.
If I have understood something wrongly from your previous statement please enlighten me.

[Niko777]

Mayor of Kavala allows Albanian language to be taught in 10 schools in the city

Who knew that recently settled Albanian immigrants have more rights in Greece than the native Macedonians.

article: http://www.novamakedonija.com.mk/New...tIzdanie=22847

[Vangelovski]

Mayor of Kavala allows Albanian language to be taught in 10 schools in the city

Who knew that recently settled Albanian immigrants have more rights in Greece than the native Macedonians.

article: http://www.novamakedonija.com.mk/New...tIzdanie=22847

Everyone has rights, some just refuse to embrace them either out of fear or self-loathing. The Albanians are not one of these.

[Vangelovski]

IMHO Risto, the Republic is a lost cause. We have 40 percent of historic Macedonia pretending to speak for the whole, and of that 40 percent at least 30 percent wants nothing to do with even the 40 percent. The Republic needs to be flushed down the toilet, and we need a fresh start to finding a solution to the Macedonian Question. Yes, it remains unsolved.
Please don't get me wrong. I wish to see an independent Macedonia, but only a united independent Macedonia. And it will have to include Macedonians, Greeks, Albanians, Serbs, Bulgarians as equals, with none considered a "minority" (oh, how I hate that term!). Macedonia is for everybody, or for nobody.

Voshtarets, Macedonia, according to its FA inspired Constitution, already belongs to every conceivable nation. In the Preamble, it lists a bunch of nations to which it belongs, and then finishes with "and others", meaning that the list is open ended. How well has that worked?

[Voshtarets]

Voshtarets, Macedonia, according to its FA inspired Constitution, already belongs to every conceivable nation. In the Preamble, it lists a bunch of nations to which it belongs, and then finishes with "and others", meaning that the list is open ended. How well has that worked?

Vangelovski, I appreciate your point. If you or anyone else can put up a link to the Macedonian Constitution where it talks about the various nations, I’d be grateful. I am here to learn, and although I did not get off to the best start many months back when I first registered, I apologise for that and would like to contribute my thoughts from time to time.
Perhaps I am a dreamy idealist when it comes to Macedonia, hoping to see it restored to its original wholeness, with Solun as its capital, with all of its peoples freely working towards its betterment, regardless of their ethnic or cultural self-identification. But that is who I am and how I feel.
By way of belated introduction, I wish to say that I was among the first here in Canada to raise the awareness of our ethnic existence in Greece and elsewhere through the media. I have literally a binder full of letters to the editors of major Canadian newspapers which were published in the Letters to the Editor page in defence of our dignity. In 1983 I had an op-ed piece published on the 80th anniversary of the Ilinden uprising. Op-eds in a major national daily are exceedingly difficult to land. I have participated in nearly every public demonstration for our rights and have been pelted by eggs from my fellow Greek Canadians during flag raising ceremonies at our city hall. I have met and shaken hands with every Macedonian president from Gligorov to Gruevski and have had Pope Tsarknias over for dinner, a memory I shall cherish.. I am not saying any of this to toot my horn; my efforts are miniscule compared to the sacrifices of our dedovtsi, but only to say that I am an old boretz za Makedonija and will be to my last breath.
@ Daskalot, please don’t take what I wrote a few posts back in a negative way. These days I have a very “inclusive” mindset and I see a Macedonian Commonwealth in our future. My typing speed is still around 25 wpm, so to respond point by point would take me forever. Suffice it to say that I long for the day when not only “nashite”, the ethnic Macedonians, but all the peoples of our tortured land will one day proclaim themselves proud Macedonians and work towards its common betterment. Always bear that in mind in my ramblings. We are all nashi here. Our cause is one and the same. I am not opachin or a protivnik. Just a humble Macedonian trying to find his way.

[Vangelovski]

Vangelovski, I appreciate your point. If you or anyone else can put up a link to the Macedonian Constitution where it talks about the various nations, I’d be grateful.

I don't think there's anything wrong with every Macedonian citizen having equal rights and responsibilities regardless of their ethnicity or religion. However, ultimately Macedonia is a Macedonian state and the notion of having co-constitutive nations can only lead to what we have at the moment with the Albanians.

To see the new Preamble, follow this link and scroll all the way to the end at Amendment IV.

http://sobranie.mk/en/default-en.asp...B897C1858B71FF

The original Preamble up front is from 1991 and no longer in force after the signing of the Framework Agreement in 2001. The key wording is below:

The citizens of the Republic of Macedonia, the Macedonian people, as well as citizens living within its borders who are part of the Albanian people, the Turkish people, the Vlach people, the Serbian people, the Romany people, the Bosniak people and others...

[Voshtarets]

Thanks for the link Vangelovski. It will take me some time to digest. There's a lot of words there!
I'll post my thoughts later.