Neos Kosmos against Pande Aslakov, President of Ovcharani

[Vangelovski]

Vangelovski,

Look at the context that I use "your people" I am using it to define Macedonians of your type when discussing ethnic groups in Aegean Macedonia.

You cant be serious here??

Just try me.

[Dejan]

Vangelovski,

Look at the context that I use "your people" I am using it to define Macedonians of your type when discussing ethnic groups in Aegean Macedonia.

You cant be serious here??

There's only one type of Macedonians, and they call themselves Macedonians. There's no 'your type'. Nothing before or after. You don't refer to yourself as such, so where's the problem? You're typically trying to muddy the waters with our ethnicity. As mentioned, your approach is becoming boring. Your argument does not refer to the reality of the situation. We are living proof of that. Accept it or move on.

[George S.]

poligiuris I said to you that there is only one type of Macedonian that we refer to is the one type only that's us.ANy other so called Macedonian is not really a Macedonian we will safely say they are faked.Introduced by the govt at some point to mask the fact there are Macedonians but they call them greek Macedonians.Why call them that when all they are is fodder for the horse.Those that were transplanted have been serving a usefull need to call themselves something they were not.You can't name people by default this is where self identity ends .You have no right calling yourself Macedonian.Not after what your stupid govt did to the Macedonians.

[Redsun]

Ok, Aegean Macedonia.

In your third paragraph you said “you couldn’t think of a single catastrophic event” fair enough, then later on in the same paragraph you have mentioned the Avars, Slavs and Magyar.

So I assume, since you mentioned these names. You believe these tribes have done the most damage to Macedonia.

You have motivated me to get back into history. My knowledge is insignificant compared to others on here but from what I do know…

I consider Avars, Slavs, Magyar, Vlach, and the Germanic similar in way “not by blood but intelligence level, when you compare them to other civilized people at the time” (most historian’s think of them as barbarians). I consider them unorganized feral’s.

These people did not have the knowledge or capability to govern, create laws, enforce language and “police” lands they have taken. These tribes didn’t have strong military standards, or the CONTROL Roman and Macedonian generals had over their troops so how could they guard new lands and distinguish between lands? While some people in BC and early AD considered themselves citizens of a country, there were still tribes such as the ones you mentioned that were content with their life as a tribesman, not as a citizen of a country.

They were huge in numbers but they could not govern, they could not hold onto the land gains they made. What monuments did they leave behind, did they really alter any civilizations in a way where peoples of existing nations have progressed with Avar, Slav, Magyar cultures. Have you spotted any of these cultures existing in the Aegean?

Ottomans… they had it so easy… the roads were built already they just had to travel over them. They never had to spend valuable time and resources creating military camps and towns, they took control over pre existing civilizations. Out of all the different people you have mentioned I think the Romans and Ottomans where the most organized, resulting in fast gains and long rulings.

P - Do you believe your people were part of the Byzantine empire or a separate Macedonian group?

This question… It’s neither and either. The Macedonians were divided by the Byzantine Empire… Macedonians were a part of the empire, some Macedonians couldn’t careless and didn’t want to have anything to do with the empire, there were still sun god worshippers in early AD. Monotheism hadn’t fully spread yet, and how was it spread… brutally.

P - I consider my family lines to be remnants of the Byzantine empire that from about 900-1100AD that incorporated the Macedonian dynasty - by geographic location.

I’m not going to comment on this… I know people non Macedonian and non Greeks that can trace their family back further than you, I have seen their history. Be careful who you say this too… you can be ridiculed hard. There are people that know the name of every father in their line, know the location of where each man died and how they died and some even left a comment behind for future generations to read.


Cheers

[George S.]

RS you make some good points.Bear in mind the turks have been around for about 500 years in the Balkans.So whats a greek doing in Macedonia ?

[Sweet Sixteen]

... my family has extended history of 500years in our region which is approx 60km north of Solun makes you no better than me...

Where are you from exactly (if I may ask)?

[Bill77]

Where are you from exactly (if I may ask)?

You should be asking yourself that question.

[Macedonian_Nationalist]

LOL at this prosfigas troll. Go back to Turkey you fake

[George S.]

poligirus others seem to feel the same way.They make out youre a turk.

[Sweet Sixteen]

This is a map depicting the Bulgarian view on demographics of Chalkidike by 1910 (you can zoom in)

[Poligiros]

This is a map depicting the Bulgarian view on demographics of Chalkidike by 1910 (you can zoom in)

WOW, is this accurate?? What is the source?

Thanks for that sweet sixteen. My other village is near Konitsa, where there is a large native Vlach (Valaques?) population, and native Greci.

I will print this and show my parents.

If this map is accurate, it does prove something to me about the native Hellenes of southern and eastern Aegean Macedonia. Most of Halkidiki is Hellenic by populace.

[George S.]

what utter rubbish.You ought to know better prior to the Balkan wars the majority of people in the Aegean was The Macedonians.The Macedonians were in excess of a million maybe more.The greeks were a minority.So this ethnic map is a fake the Bulgarians called the Macedonians Bulgarians & also harboured irrendist claims.Thats why Macedonia was partitioned & divided up to satisfy the appetite for land for the serbs ,for the Bulgarians,also the greeks ,later the Albanians.How can one country belong to three other countries??Note if the Bulgarians got sooner by a couple of hours they could have taken the Aegean for themselves.Instead we have hungry wolves fighting for more & more land it says they weren't happy with their share they wanted more.Don;t be surprised by the map ,the Bulgarians were able to make maps say we are Bulgarian,that was their propaganda.The serbs could say we were serbs,Also the greeks could say that we were slavophones after assimilation some became greeks by name.So what else is new.You guys are lucky that I have read up on the partition of Macedonia & know what each side got up to.Poligirus don't rush with that fake map of Macedonia .

[Sweet Sixteen]

I’m quite familiar with your hometown (Polygyros) as I live in Thessalonike. I once attended an open lecture at the town square by an architect (?) called Aekaterinares along with local folk songs and dances. He was speaking about the local architecture and the recent history, the historical significance of each square and building etc. He was so passionate and so in love with his town that it seems he affected me and passed some of this love to me. Chalcidiciotes are indeed very fanatic about their place.

I have visited Polygyros more than 10 times for various reasons and have often stayed at the hotel next to the hospital by the mountain feet. Polygyros is an inland administrative city, the capital of Chalkidike, so it’s different and does not depend so much in tourism like the typical coastal towns that are deserted in the winter and crowded in the summer. The town seems rich with a nice local market.

It is indeed amphitheatric, with many squares and old buildings, modern parts with high building and wide streets and other parts with narrow streets. Last time I was there the town seemed very empty and dead (even the restaurants were close), I don’t really know why. Was it the season or the economical crisis?

The archaeological museum is also close (due to renovation works) at the last years I can remember. Yet, I was very impressed by other sites like the Petralona Cave and ancient Olynthus. The Cave was much different than what I expected and explained to me why cavemen lived in caves. These caves were not only refuges from wild animals and weather with an almost stable temperature throughout the year, but they are very clean (like houses). Probably because of humidity, there is no dust and dirt inside the caves and a thin shinny layer (that feels like ice) covers everything.



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[Sweet Sixteen]

WOW, is this accurate?? What is the source?

Thanks for that sweet sixteen. My other village is near Konitsa, where there is a large native Vlach (Valaques?) population, and native Greci.

I will print this and show my parents.

If this map is accurate, it does prove something to me about the native Hellenes of southern and eastern Aegean Macedonia. Most of Halkidiki is Hellenic by populace.

There are many similar maps from late 1800s and early 1900s (before Balkan wars) from Bulgarian, Greek, Serbian, Turkish or other (e.g. French, German) point of view. They are all questionable, unless when they all paint the same area with the same color. Some of them are more detailed, other paint wider areas with the color of the alleged ethnic majority.

[Vangelovski]

Rather than salivating over Greek/Serb/Bulgarian expansionist maps, you may want to look at more non-aligned contemporary maps such as those produced in England, Germany and Austria that show a very different picture and the reality of the Macedonian people.