Neos Kosmos against Pande Aslakov, President of Ovcharani

[George S.]

so ss you try & lie to us that chaldiki has allways been greek.THis is bs of the highest order.Nothing could be further from the truth.They came there in the 6or seventh centuries.Don't give this shit that it allways was greek & the greeks were not indigenous to it.NO its not totally greek.THe whole Aegean until 1913 was Macedonian.There is no contradiction.Your greeks of chaldiki were settlers looking for a better life.Remember one of the greek claim was the greekness of Macedonia.So you think some settlers of Greece in some point in time is going to make everything greek.
But you forget that at what point did the greek settlers come.??Just because of that or other settlements does that give land grab rights to Greece?Undenial fact prior to 1913
generally Greece never put a foot in the Aegean.What makes you believe due to some sort of so called Hellenization all of a sudden drop everything its all greek to me??WE can see right through your lies and multiple identities.Chaldiki or any other place in the Aegean does not prove that the greeks were the dominant race the Macedonians were.
you are looking for ways to exaggerate Greece's claim over Macedonia.

[Sweet Sixteen]

What we see above with Sweet Sixteen's post is pure deceit. He is producing Bulgarian nationalist propaganda maps inorder to deny Macedonian existence. It's quite bizarre that he uses previous not only once outrages material to Serbia, but what also seems anti Greek territorial maps, and he goes as far as saying they are a "good selection of maps". The troll tries to cover his main intentions with his last sentence, as if his aim was to show "Greekness of Chalkidike" where clearly, it's not his main aim.

How many times must this troll be banned and given another chance?

LOL, I don't want to be accused as a Bulgarian. You’re a little ungrateful, aren’t you? If you don’t want to read sources or debate on them, the alternative of banning me is that you pull your eyes out like Oedipus.

The above link was a pleasant surprise. I counted them again, there are 12 classic ethnographic maps, but they’re not all of them, and they’re not all made by Bulgarians, as far as I understand. There’s a short description for each one.

The following page of Wikipedia concentrates and describes 24 classic maps from all points of view. I guess the two links combined must provide everything there is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Macedonia

[George S.]

so ss you try & lie to us that chaldiki has allways been greek.THis is bs of the highest order.Nothing could be further from the truth.They came there in the 6or seventh centuries.Don't give this shit that it allways was greek & the greeks were not indigenous to it.NO its not totally greek.THe whole Aegean until 1913 was Macedonian.There is no contradiction.Your greeks of chaldiki were settlers looking for a better life.Remember one of the greek claim was the greekness of Macedonia.So you think some settlers of Greece in some point in time is going to make everything greek.
But you forget that at what point did the greek settlers come.??Just because of that or other settlements does that give land grab rights to Greece?Undenial fact prior to 1913
generally Greece never put a foot in the Aegean.What makes you believe due to some sort of so called Hellenization all of a sudden drop everything its all greek to me??WE can see right through your lies and multiple identities.Chaldiki or any other place in the Aegean does not prove that the greeks were the dominant race the Macedonians were.
you are looking for ways to exaggerate Greece's claim over Macedonia.

[Vangelovski]

SS, have you managed to find any neutral research from non-Balkan sources yet or are you just going to keep spreading Greek, Serb and Bulgarian propaganda?

[Sweet Sixteen]

This Bulgarian Nationalist compiled......"Ethnographic Atlas of the Balkans Peninsula" which consisted of 40 maps (although ss produced only his selected 4) was compiled by two proffesors at the university of Sofia, convieniantly after the annexation of Macedonia which then lead to their defeat in the 2nd Balkan war, which left a bad taste in the Bulgarians mouths and left them Dissatisfied over their spoils.
Yet Pryor to the first Balkan war, they were more than happy forming part of the Balkan league with intentions dividing Macedonia.

Which leads me to a question that can never be answered when I ask a Greek (which implies to Bulgarians aswell) if Macedonia was yours, (which seems to be an issue only after the Balkan wars) and great lengths ever since, are taken to try and prove so, with propaganda........why would you be content to divide it amongst others in the first place?

That explains why it took so long for the Balkan League to form. When formed they succeeded quite easily over Turks, but they still had their own disagreements.

I believe Greeks (just as Serbs, Bulgarians and Turks) acted the same way. They tried to achieve as much as possible. They all had an opinion on ethnic mixing and every victory (if not the maximal one) would still be a victory. Eventually, they couldn’t compromise.

[Sweet Sixteen]

SS, have you managed to find any neutral research from non-Balkan sources yet or are you just going to keep spreading Greek, Serb and Bulgarian propaganda?

Some of the maps (in both links) are neutral. See also wikipedia section: Independent point of view.

[George S.]

how can the views be independent when they say we are just Macedonian slavs.I would question the independence view.How they came to the conclusion.There are only Macedonians living in Macedonia not slavs.Why use a derogatory term like Macedonian slavs.The same logic could be applied to every other Balkan country.All I can say with certainty is these so called independent persons have been swayed by the respective countries propaganda.To use labels such as slavophones or calling people Bulgarians when they are nothing of the sort well lying is very fashionable.Simply using these false labels taints the picture of what the real demographics were or are.That will help to understate the statistics,that will lay the claim that Macedonians don't exist.Hence you would think that Macedonia is greek its not??So a heavy duty propaganda seems to work like mud sticking to something.Also if you happen to repeat a lie enough times it becomes the truth.Just remember the claims were based on these false demographic maps,false statistics,lies upon lies,.Don't be surprised these countries had big money budgets & they could afford to buy out people etc so that a certain view is exemplified in books or maps etc.
Only recently about 2 years ago there was a greek offer ,with a budget of 200 million dollars.I think people will remember this when money was offered to journalists & publishers to write about the greekness of Macedonia.That offer was made all around the world even to Macedonian journalists (money for comment).

[Poligiros]

SS what was polygyros called before the Balkan wars.Remember after the Balkan wars all the Macedonian names of toponyms were changed to greek ones.???

Hi George,

Polygyros has been known as Polygyros since about 1000 AD. Its geographically located next to Olynthos and other ancient Macedonian settlements.

Poli means many in ancient Greek, Gyros is either a circle or Geros is strong. Polygyros = very circular or very strong.

Once again, with your theories of my family being foreigners to our native villages, even if they did come from southern Greece in 600AD as you suggest, wouldn't it be logical that they intermarried with the local autochthonous population? All independent and reputable records show a native Hellenic population in Southern and Eastern Aegean Macedonia and coastal areas for 1000s of years from what I have read.

Can you please point out evidence to the contrary?

Thanks

[Poligiros]

I’m quite familiar with your hometown (Polygyros) as I live in Thessalonike. I once attended an open lecture at the town square by an architect (?) called Aekaterinares along with local folk songs and dances. He was speaking about the local architecture and the recent history, the historical significance of each square and building etc. He was so passionate and so in love with his town that it seems he affected me and passed some of this love to me. Chalcidiciotes are indeed very fanatic about their place.

I have visited Polygyros more than 10 times for various reasons and have often stayed at the hotel next to the hospital by the mountain feet. Polygyros is an inland administrative city, the capital of Chalkidike, so it’s different and does not depend so much in tourism like the typical coastal towns that are deserted in the winter and crowded in the summer. The town seems rich with a nice local market.

It is indeed amphitheatric, with many squares and old buildings, modern parts with high building and wide streets and other parts with narrow streets. Last time I was there the town seemed very empty and dead (even the restaurants were close), I don’t really know why. Was it the season or the economical crisis?

The archaeological museum is also close (due to renovation works) at the last years I can remember. Yet, I was very impressed by other sites like the Petralona Cave and ancient Olynthus. The Cave was much different than what I expected and explained to me why cavemen lived in caves. These caves were not only refuges from wild animals and weather with an almost stable temperature throughout the year, but they are very clean (like houses). Probably because of humidity, there is no dust and dirt inside the caves and a thin shinny layer (that feels like ice) covers everything.



===

Hi Sweet sixteen,

Polygyros is a great town, and you are very spot on, it seems to have been affected by the GFC in recent years. I have not visited since 2009 when I was living in the UK. Our native house is in the old town, about 100 metres from the central square. It has been passed down through family members and I renovated it, bringing out the original stone facade.

People that visit Poligiros find it a bit boring, but I like the vicinity to Thessaloniki (or Solun for this forum) and access to the awesome halkidiki coastal areas.

Yes, the Petralona caves, everyone should visit. It debunks the theory that man originated from Africa, shows that another strand of early human originated in Europe.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack this thread. Have a nice one.

[George S.]

poligirus that's why I said poligyrus & people ARE NOT indigenous TO the land THey are only settlers or colonisers.THEy are NOT the original inhabitants.I put it also to you that the greeks are NOT native to the greek peninsula they arrived from Africa the sudan about 3000 BC.There were other people besides the greeks prior to the greeks.So the mere settlement of a land does not make yiou a native of that land.The fact that the greeks stole the land makes it a crime for Greece to commit genocide on the Macedonian people.This is a fact that noneof the greeks acknowledge that come on this forum.They come on this forum whinging & whining how the turks committed atrocities on them.Hey you don't even admit to the Macedonian atrocities.To you we don't exist.THe greeks are only newcomer to the Balkans as compared to the endopi called Macedonians who were indigenous .There is a BIg Big difference & you & ss have missed the point.STop your BS & get off this forum as you are telling lies.

[Bill77]

Poli means many in ancient Greek, Gyros is either a circle or Geros is strong. Polygyros = very circular or very strong.

Etymology

You can try making a connection to being Ancient Greek. What are these many circles or very strong ...what ever......that Poligiros has or once had?

Or there could be another more plausible explanation.

POLI

POLI .........Recorded in over two hundred spelling forms throughout the Christian world this surname is of Roman (pre Christian) origins.

https://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Poli

The surname POLI comes from the personal name PAOLO, the Italian equivalent to PAUL. The popularity of this name was originally due to the fact that during the Christian Era, people often named their children after saints and biblical figures.

http://www.houseofnames.com/poli-family-crest

GIRO
Latin......GIRO = AROUND
Italian....GIRO = TOUR
Noun
tour
lap
ride
round
turn
revolution
turning
spin
slew
slue
trip
walk
stroll
ramble
run
drive
circle
gyre
coil
circuit
screw
girth

it's fact that Saint Paul (Paolo-Poli in Latin) visited, walked around, toured =(Giro in Latin/Italian) and preached in this region.

Just a thought.

[Dejan]

Polygyros has been known as Polygyros since about 1000 AD.

Same as Bitola

[Poligiros]

Etymology

You can try making a connection to being Ancient Greek. What are these many circles or very strong ...what ever......that Poligiros has or once had?

Or there could be another more plausible explanation.

POLI



it's fact that Saint Paul (Paolo-Poli in Latin) visited, walked around, toured =(Giro in Latin/Italian) and preached in this region.

Just a thought.

Hi Bill,

Could be a plausible explanation, as I confirmed from what I have read, Aegean Macedonia was under Roman rule from 150BC.

Polygyros - Does in fact seems like a very round or circular village.

As for Bitola, was founded as Heraclea in 4th century BC. I believe "Bitola" has a similar meaning to "Monastry" as is the Hellenic and Turkish name for this city??

[Dejan]

Hi Bill,

Could be a plausible explanation, as I confirmed from what I have read, Aegean Macedonia was under Roman rule from 150BC.

Polygyros - Does in fact seems like a very round or circular village.

As for Bitola, was founded as Heraclea in 4th century BC. I believe "Bitola" has a similar meaning to "Monastry" as is the Hellenic and Turkish name for this city??

'Pole' also means 'field' in Macedonian. I was under the impression that in order to build a town/city you would need a field. Could be the link between field-town/ pole-poli(s). Yes, Bitola has roots in the Macedonian word 'obitel' I believe. The name Bitola has been in use since about 900AD if i'm not mistaken. Continuation of Heraklea.

[George S.]

poligyrous is not indigenous to the Aegean & that's that.You trying to make a mountain out of a mole.