Neos Kosmos against Pande Aslakov, President of Ovcharani

[Sweet Sixteen]

Rather than salivating over Greek/Serb/Bulgarian expansionist maps, you may want to look at more non-aligned contemporary maps such as those produced in England, Germany and Austria that show a very different picture and the reality of the Macedonian people.

I DO want to look at it. Any links?

[Redsun]

Any links?

I thought you were the “search engine wizard” SS.

Why behave ignorant as if you have not seen them.

You research… this is military propaganda, you are only standing by it because of its incorrect bias creation.

[George S.]

SS what was polygyros called before the Balkan wars.Remember after the Balkan wars all the Macedonian names of toponyms were changed to greek ones.???

[Bill77]

Any links?

I thought you were the “search engine wizard” SS.

Why behave ignorant as if you have not seen them.

You research… this is military propaganda, you are only standing by it because of its incorrect bias creation.

And since Poli (who keeps kidding himself) will be printing it, he can hang it on his wall where he can see it everyday which it shows contrary to his belief Greeks lived in Bitola.

[Dejan]

Konitsa? Which of the twelve greek gods named that village?

[julie]

Sweet Sixteen.....you could be Thessa's and Lion Will Kiss triplet...

[Sweet Sixteen]

Any links?

I thought you were the “search engine wizard” SS.

Why behave ignorant as if you have not seen them.

You research… this is military propaganda, you are only standing by it because of its incorrect bias creation.

I've no idea what Vangelovski is talking about. Do you?

SS what was polygyros called before the Balkan wars.Remember after the Balkan wars all the Macedonian names of toponyms were changed to greek ones.???

It was called Polygyros.

[George S.]

why a greek name when the whole Aegean had Macedonian names???

[Niko777]

The people of southern Macedonia such as Halkidiki were the earliest to be Hellenized (I'd say from 1700 - 1800), due to the geographic location and strong presence of the Patriarchate of Constantinople. The last Macedonian speakers of Halkidiki were recorded in the late 1800s. Macedonian toponyms in Halkidiki, although not as numerous, did exist and were changed to new Greek ones in the the 1920s.

I do not have specific information on Polygiro, but I do have some examples of neighboring villages in Dimos Polygirou that were renamed from Macedonian to Greek.

Funny how both Poligiros and sweet sixteen completely ignored my comment and are continuing to spam this thread.

[Redsun]

Yes you do SS.

SS - This is a map depicting the Bulgarian view on demographics of Chalkidike by 1910 (you can zoom in)

In your support of this Propaganda, I can assume you support the “Bulgarian view” on Greeks in that period as well? Why do you wish to mislead Poligiros?

What about the military expansions map of 1878, before the time of creation of the propaganda you posted (32 years before). The Treaty of Berlin 1878 how can you dispute that.

Poligiro has stated his family has been in Macedonia for 500 years. How…

…The proposed accession to Greece…in 1878. The Germans knew how small Greece was prior to 1878… SS your disappointing.

[George S.]

we can all cut through your crap it just doesn't add up does it.especially omitted is the old name in poligyrus that was first as aacedonian one.

[Sweet Sixteen]

This is a good selection of maps (some I just saw for the first time).

It starts with Bulgarian expansion until 900 AD (10 maps)

http://www.promacedonia.org/en/dr/dr_01-09_en.htm

It continues (in historical order) and provides the first demographic maps of Macedonia from 1840s and 1860s (at the end of the page) (10 maps)

http://www.promacedonia.org/en/dr/dr_10-19_en.htm

The third page is mostly what we’re familiar with (maps from late 1800s, early 1900s)

http://www.promacedonia.org/en/dr/dr_20-29_en.htm

The fourth page continues with interesting (but mostly not ethnographic) maps

http://www.promacedonia.org/en/dr/dr_30-40_en.htm

All maps agree about the Greekness of Chalkidike (having minor differences).


===

[George S.]

ss you believe all these old maps.Just think how they made them they just asked their neighbours & consulted with them before they made their maps.Thats why there is a higelty pigelty of maps mostly bearing the propaganda.I cant believe all Macedonians were Bulgarian .did they consult any Macedonian on that?i doubt it.So they bypassed the real Macedonians & made their maps how they felt.I wouldn't believe them.You mentioned that you have accepted chaldiki to be all greek based on some maps that are conflicting as to the real truth.You can say anything you want with maps.Also the maps exaggerate & have a lot of inaccuracies about ethnic expansions.

[Bill77]

This is a good selection of maps (some I just saw for the first time).

It starts with Bulgarian expansion until 900 AD (10 maps)

http://www.promacedonia.org/en/dr/dr_01-09_en.htm

It continues (in historical order) and provides the first demographic maps of Macedonia from 1840s and 1860s (at the end of the page) (10 maps)

http://www.promacedonia.org/en/dr/dr_10-19_en.htm

The third page is mostly what we’re familiar with (maps from late 1800s, early 1900s)

http://www.promacedonia.org/en/dr/dr_20-29_en.htm

The fourth page continues with interesting (but mostly not ethnographic) maps

http://www.promacedonia.org/en/dr/dr_30-40_en.htm

All maps agree about the Greekness of Chalkidike (having minor differences).


===

what we have here is controversial Bulgarian Nationalist propaganda prefaced by D Rizoff ... Minister of Bulgaria in Berlin in 1917.

This Bulgarian Nationalist compiled......"Ethnographic Atlas of the Balkans Peninsula" which consisted of 40 maps (although ss produced only his selected 4) was compiled by two proffesors at the university of Sofia, convieniantly after the annexation of Macedonia which then lead to their defeat in the 2nd Balkan war, which left a bad taste in the Bulgarians mouths and left them Dissatisfied over their spoils.
Yet Pryor to the first Balkan war, they were more than happy forming part of the Balkan league with intentions dividing Macedonia.

Which leads me to a question that can never be answered when I ask a Greek (which implies to Bulgarians aswell) if Macedonia was yours, (which seems to be an issue only after the Balkan wars) and great lengths ever since, are taken to try and prove so, with propaganda........why would you be content to divide it amongst others in the first place?

Now this atlas was edited by D.Rizoff and produced at the peace conference in Paris (1919) in an attempt to support their claims to all of Macedonia and parts of Serbia. Bulgaria (Thieves themselves) still couldn't get over having their stolen goods being stolen off them.

Serbian academics were outraged, (which Macedonians would have been likewise if they had some kind of representative at this peace conference) Serbians condemned the atlas as a piece of Bulgarian propaganda.

Reports with accompanying ethnographic maps outlining territorial demands were common at the peace conference in Paris. Poles, Czechoslovak, delegation submitted several memoranda, so did the Serbian and Italians, publish studies to show their ethnic right to contested
Area such as Istra.

As we are all aware, today (probably even more so back in 1919) nations, representatives, groups, individuals etc......would make claims......and oposition would counter claim, with both sides compiling information that has been twisted and distorted.

What we see above with Sweet Sixteen's post is pure deceit. He is producing Bulgarian nationalist propaganda maps inorder to deny Macedonian existence. It's quite bizarre that he uses previous not only once outrages material to Serbia, but what also seems anti Greek territorial maps, and he goes as far as saying they are a "good selection of maps". The troll tries to cover his main intentions with his last sentence, as if his aim was to show "Greekness of Chalkidike" where clearly, it's not his main aim.

How many times must this troll be banned and given another chance?

[George S.]

Many have produced ethnic or demographic maps mainly to deceive govts & the populace into believing that they were a certain race.That made it possible to lay their land grab claims.In the 19/20th century a lot of countries besides Macedonia had their borders revisioned.Macedonia was similarly carved up without consultation of the people & against their wishes were annexed & partitioned.I did mention previously .HOW CAN ONE COUNTRY SUDDENLY BELONG TO FOUR OTHER COUNTRIES???THey had each heavy duty propaganda for their claim.Greece had their greekness of Macedonia.The Bulgarians had the bulgarianess of Macedonia,the serbs had their serbianess of Macedonia.The Albanians had their version all tried to justify their land grab.All were unhappy with their share & wanted more.