International Court of Justice - Macedonia and Greece

[Vangelovski]

Vangelovski,I can't agree more with you! BUT I bet we will agree that, that's not how things go.WE HAVE NO FRIENDS,NO ALLIES in our struggle for justice! Name ONE major player that is on our side.ONE!
What we're left with are few,but DAMN GOOD Macedonians in RoM and abroad doing their best while praying that our 5 min. will come and we'll have our revenge.

What's this obsession with friends and allies? Besides, history has shown that those with some self-respect who diligently undertake the necessary work ahead of them end up gaining more genuine allies than those who are willing to sell their own souls and be used to accomplish the interests of others.

[Niko777]

Secondly, why would we want to keep on implementing it and begging Greece not to abandon it once they already have?

I'm just saying if Greece abandons the IA, and Macedonia continues to keep the ventilator, then one could say that Macedonia is still implementing the I.A.

OK Macedonia might not "beg" Greece, but it might go around condemning Greece for pulling out.

[Vangelovski]

I'm just saying if Greece abandons the IA, and Macedonia continues to keep the ventilator, then one could say that Macedonia is still implementing the I.A.

OK Macedonia might not "beg" Greece, but it might go around condemning Greece for pulling out.

Niko777, I was actually agreeing with you as to how stupid it would be and my comments were directed at dedoaleko.

[makedonche]

It astounds me that Macedonia now has a legal stick to beat the Greeks over the head with, I am yet to see anything of the sort, in fact I'm seeing complacent diplomacy so as not to aggravate the situation.
Personally I would use this hollow victory to beat them over the head at every opportunity and make sure it stays in the international media headlines as long as possible so that the world can get a glimpse of the true southern neighbours!

[Risto the Great]

News interview with a Eurodonian

REPORTER: Congratulations Macedonia, you won this court case.
MACEDONIA: We indeed won this very important case. It affirmed our stance that we were willing to whore our identity in order to sit at the table with other important countries.


REPORTER: But why would anyone be willing to sacrifice their identity?
FACEDONIA: Because we are a poor country. We are proud Macedonians, we are proud of our identity and struggles. This is why we gave up our symbols and name and other important things.


REPORTER: Some detractors would say it could be argued that you were not proud at all. That in fact you were willing to give up all of this without a whimper.
FYRDONIA: This is not true. We are indeed proud of our identity. This is why we went to court. We insisted Greece must call us by our name FYROM and we proudly wave our new flags as an act of strength and courage to those Greeks who control our every move.


REPORTER: So let me get this right. Winning this court case was your way of ensuring you could be called FYROM.
FYROMIA: Well yes. We Macedonians are very accommodating people. We know who we are and we know what we want. We are Europeans Macedonians and we want to be part of a stronger union. If it means we enter these unions with a new name and that we are treated like a retarded sibling, so be it. We need to be part of this progress. It is essential.


REPORTER: I have heard you say that you would not be willing to sacrifice your identity yet you want to be called FYROM in the EU & NATO.
FYROMI: No this is incorrect. We do not WANT to be called FYROM. Greece wants us to be called FYROM and we must listen to our master. We don't like it for one minute. We don't make the rules, Greece does. We can only comply.


REPORTER: I get it. You are piss weak.
FYROM: Piss can be used to clean wounds and has often been used as an antiseptic. I would like to think we are completely weak as piss, which means we are strong.

[Zarni]

I don't know when the next NATO summit will be hosted and what if any Nations will seek to be a member but if Macedonia can not use the ICJ verdict to put NATO in a corner and have a legal verdict thrown on the table then Macedonian Diplomacy is all but incompitant

But more importantly having to use this to get a foot in the door is despicable not to mention seeing Macedonians defend US interests and not be recognised as equals should be all the reason not to be seeking NATO membership.

You don't need to be a NATO member as Macedonia already is to participate in NATO missions and NATO regional exercises if you really want to

[Zarni]

I like your post Rosto it should be sent to the Macedonian PM with a KLA head band to remind him about a certain newly appointed individual in his Government

[La Bira]

I don't know when the next NATO summit will be hosted and what if any Nations will seek to be a member but if Macedonia can not use the ICJ verdict to put NATO in a corner and have a legal verdict thrown on the table then Macedonian Diplomacy is all but incompitant

Maybe you missed that:

Statement by the NATO Secretary General on ICJ ruling

December 7, 2011

I take note that the International Court of Justice has issued its ruling on a bilateral issue between Greece and the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.

The ruling does not affect the decision taken by NATO Allies at the Bucharest summit in 2008. We agreed that an invitation will be extended to the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia as soon as a mutually acceptable solution to the name issue has been reached. This decision was reiterated at subsequent summit and ministerial meetings

[Vangelovski]

RtG,

That is a piercing observation on the slave mentality and the idiocy that we are up against.

[Zarni]

But the ICJ Decision now holds NATO not
to repeat a decision based on the same grounds as 2008
My point they could not refuse to admit FYROM into NATO or can they?
after all that will be good enough for he Macedonians I bet

[George S.]

no need to change anything to please them.

[La Bira]

But the ICJ Decision now holds NATO not
to repeat a decision based on the same grounds as 2008
My point they could not refuse to admit FYROM into NATO or can they?

Your point is basically wrong. While you won a battle, it's not clear if… it was a tie, or how it will have a practical effect. I also remind you the Court replied NO to No 3.

Republic of Macedonia requested that:

1.Greek objections to the jurisdiction of the Court should be rejected,
2.The Court should adjudge and declare that Greece has violated the obligations under the provisions of the Interim Accord, Article 11, paragraph 1, and
3.The Court to order Greece to immediately take all necessary steps to comply with the obligations under the above provisions, and to refrain from objecting in any way, directly or indirectly to the membership of the Republic of Macedonia in NATO and/or any other any other “international, multilateral and regional organizations and institutions” if the Republic of Macedonia applies for such membership under the name “Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia”.

[Volk]

Your point is basically wrong. While you won a battle, it's not clear if… it was a tie, or how it will have a practical effect. I also remind you the Court replied NO to No 3.

Republic of Macedonia requested that:

1.Greek objections to the jurisdiction of the Court should be rejected,
2.The Court should adjudge and declare that Greece has violated the obligations under the provisions of the Interim Accord, Article 11, paragraph 1, and
3.The Court to order Greece to immediately take all necessary steps to comply with the obligations under the above provisions, and to refrain from objecting in any way, directly or indirectly to the membership of the Republic of Macedonia in NATO and/or any other any other “international, multilateral and regional organizations and institutions” if the Republic of Macedonia applies for such membership under the name “Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia”.

Stating they are powerless to do so if hardly saying No... People may realise that the only thing left to do is accept thier name and abandom these suicidal 'talks'

[julie]

Perhaps Grkos would like to accept their new name as Hellass

[Brian]

Can somebody just shoot these people and put them out of their misery? Their names need to be added to the long list of traitors. Are there no politicians for Macedonia?

SDSM Still Mourns ICJ Loss with their partners

Tuesday, 13 December 2011
After the ICJ win, the leading party in the opposition, SDSM remained muted!

The opposition party and their leader Branko Crvenkovski found themselves in a peculiar position, prior to and post the ICJ ruling.

The most vocal opponent of naming Skopje's international Airport Alexander the Great was not Greece, rather our own political party, the SDSM. It was SDSM's leader, Branko Crvenkovski who first stated Macedonia broke the Interim Agreement with naming of the airport, and later with Alexander's statue in downtown Skopje!

Because of stands like these, the SDSM sees the ICJ win as a loss for them and their partners to the south.

For years, Athens merely follows and repeats SDSM's statements a day or two after they are made in Skopje.

The ICJ did speak about the airport and statues as it was high on Greece's attorneys agenda at the Hague. In both cases the ICJ ruled naming airports, or statues, or museums in no way breached the Interim Agreement, adding Macedonia has authority over its land and can do or name things in any way it desires. It was an internal matter, the ICJ ruled.

The SDSM remained muted after the ruling. No apology came from Crvenkovski or the party. None was expected. Communists typically do not apologize.

Finally today the SDSM scheduled a press conference, lead by Gordan Georgiev, SDSM's vice president.

Is this the day the SDSM will apologize?

- After the ICJ ruling Macedonia is in even worse position than before in regards to EU and NATO. If we look at the conclusions, we can only see defeat written all over, says Gordan Georgiev, adding Macedonia should use the ICJ ruling as a jumping board to negotiate a new name with Greece.

And this is why the SDSM is in opposition for 6 years, highly likely will stay there for a while.