International Court of Justice - Macedonia and Greece

[Bill77]

HAGUE JUDGEMENT REINFORCES NEED FOR MACEDONIA TO END SHAMEFUL NAME NEGOTIATIONS

Melbourne, Australia, Toronto, Canada and Skopje, Macedonia
5 December 2011

Not that any more incentive should be needed to stop negotiating your own name, but in a 15-1 vote, the International Court of Justice (ICJ) in The Hague ruled today that Greece violated the United Nations’ sponsored Interim Accord (a 1995 “agreement” between Macedonia and Greece) when it vetoed the Republic of Macedonia’s entry to the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) in April 2008.

Following the Greek veto, in November 2008, Macedonia lodged an application at the ICJ arguing that Greece had violated the terms of 1995 agreement between the two countries. Under the accord, Greece pledged not to block Macedonia’s entry into international organisations under the so called United Nations’ provisional reference, “the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia”.

Greece initiated the nonsensical “name dispute”, objecting to Macedonia’s name, in an effort to detract from its policy of non-recognition and persecution of its large Macedonian minority.

Ironically, it was not until 1988, when Greece realized that independence for the Republic of Macedonia was imminent, that it renamed “Northern Greece” to “Macedonia.” Prior to this, Greece's policy was that Macedonia did not exist.

Despite Greece’s intense propaganda campaign, more than 130 countries (over two thirds of all UN members, and including four of five UN Security Council members) have recognised the Republic of Macedonia.

While today’s decision will be perceived by many as a victory for Macedonia, the Australian Macedonian Human Rights Committee (AMHRC) and Macedonian Human Rights Movement International (MHRMI) urge Macedonians to put the decision into some perspective. Though the judgement demonstrates that Greece cannot be trusted to abide by international agreements, it does not endorse the Republic of Macedonia’s name, nor does it put an end to the disgraceful name “discussions” between Macedonia and its southern neighbour. Therefore to ‘support’ or ‘welcome’ today’s ICJ decision, merely denotes an endorsement for the continued use of the demeaning and racist “FYROM” reference and an acceptance of the destructive 1995 Interim Accord.

The AMHRC and MHRMI have long demanded that the Macedonian government put an end to the name “negotiations” with Greece and today’s ICJ judgment reinforces the obvious need for such a move. These “negotiations” are racist and contrary to the concept of human rights and indeed, the spirit of the UN charter itself.

Furthermore, MHRMI and AMHRC call on Macedonians worldwide to continue their support of the Our Name is Macedonia campaign, which demands that Macedonia immediately end all negotiations over its name:

https://www.mhrmi.org/our_name_is_macedonia

###

Established in 1984 the Australian Macedonian Human Rights Committee (AMHRC) is a non-governmental organisation that informs and advocates before international institutions, governments and broader communities about combating racism and promoting human rights. Our aspiration is to ensure that Macedonian communities and other excluded groups throughout the world, are recognised, respected and afforded equitable treatment. For more information please visit www.macedonianhr.org.au, or email [email protected] or via +61 3 9329 8960.

Macedonian Human Rights Movement International (MHRMI) has been active on human and national rights issues for Macedonians and other oppressed peoples since 1986. For more information: www.mhrmi.org, twitter.com/mhrmi, facebook/mhrmi, [email protected], 1-416-850-7125.

This statement was just broadcasted around Macedonia via MKTV news. I watched it live via UBI television. The news reporter mentioned how AMHRC and MHRMI represent the Macedonian diaspora. Thank you to both organisations for being the true representitive for us Macedonians and for making a diference. Please people, support these organisations for the sake of Macedonia.

[julie]

Amen to that Bill !!

[Voltron]

Voltron, don't shed crocodile tears for the hapless Kurds, they'll do fine...so long as the modern greeks never invade their lands and steal their identity they will remain Kurds for eternity.

I guess you just have to come to terms with the fact if Macedonians in Greece identify themselves as Greek you should just respect that choice. Its not a matter of stealing, its a matter of self-determination a buzz word used often around these parts.

[julie]

I guess you just have to come to terms with the fact if Macedonians in Greece identify themselves as Greek you should just respect that choice. Its not a matter of stealing, its a matter of self-determination a buzz word used often around these parts.

Voltron, stop being a fuckwit
I have family there, if they dont "identify" as Greek in your fucked up "we have no minority" country, they cannot attend universities or be gainfully employed.
Perhaps you should talk about respecting minorities, you know, the ones that YOU and your ilk forcefully "assimilated" changed names and villages to grk ones
Fuck off

[Voltron]

Julie, you mean Greek citizen. Not necessarily an ethnic Greek.
Of course you would have to classify yourself as a Greek citizen to get a job.
I had to do the same eventhough I am ethnic Greek I wasnt able to get a job with my American status. These are two completely different things. Dont confuse the two.
Dont forget that our numbnuts PM had granted Greek status to foreigners for the sake of EU human rights. It is not our job to educate people on their ethnicity. That responsiblity lies with themselves and their upbringing. Im not going to be paying my tax dollars to fund other peoples culture's and segregationist tendencies.

[George S.]

yeah voltron your greek govt tried to perpetuate the MYTH that that there are only greeks in greece how wrong was that & they been caught lying & breaking every human rights law under the sun.Again denying whils't doing it.Also getting away with it??So why pretend & hide whils't commiting attrocities etc on the macedonian people,why because they are nothing but thieves & liers.Underneath all that it is all rotten to the core.It's people like yourselves who obey your govt to the end.They say jump you say how high.You don't question what they do.I'm sure Julie has a lot of stories to tell about the attrocities they committed on her family.

[Risto the Great]

Julie, you mean Greek citizen. Not necessarily an ethnic Greek.
Of course you would have to classify yourself as a Greek citizen to get a job.
I had to do the same eventhough I am ethnic Greek I wasnt able to get a job with my American status. These are two completely different things. Dont confuse the two.
Dont forget that our numbnuts PM had granted Greek status to foreigners for the sake of EU human rights. It is not our job to educate people on their ethnicity. That responsiblity lies with themselves and their upbringing. Im not going to be paying my tax dollars to fund other peoples culture's and segregationist tendencies.

Can an ethnic Macedonian use a Macedonian name in Greece Voltron? They can't do it in the Greek caretaking churches in the Macedonian regions of Greece. How do the baptism records effect legal names over there? I'm not sure how the church and state handle that one in Greece. Just curious because we know the relationship is somewhat less than "European" to say the least.

[La Bira]

Can an ethnic Macedonian use a Macedonian name in Greece Voltron? They can't do it in the Greek caretaking churches in the Macedonian regions of Greece. How do the baptism records effect legal names over there? I'm not sure how the church and state handle that one in Greece. Just curious because we know the relationship is somewhat less than "European" to say the least.

That has been answered here (posts #21 to #50)

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5751&highlight=vodenko&page=3

[Phoenix]

I guess you just have to come to terms with the fact if Macedonians in Greece identify themselves as Greek you should just respect that choice. Its not a matter of stealing, its a matter of self-determination a buzz word used often around these parts.

Vol, I have no interest in Macedonians identifying as 'greek'...
The problem I have is when deluded fools like you deliberately walk around with your heads buried deep in your ass, pretending that the minorities in modern greece actually have a choice in determining self identity.

A succession of racist and fascist lunatics pretending to be politicians in your country have denied this right to self identity to not only the indigenous Macedonian population of modern greece but have insisted in persuing these same vile policies aimed at Macedonian communities outside of modern greece.

So when this subject pops up in discussion and you attribute nice and moral terms like "respect" and "choice", forgive me if I feel a little cynical.

[El Bre]

Dont forget that our numbnuts PM had granted Greek status to foreigners for the sake of EU human rights. It is not our job to educate people on their ethnicity. That responsiblity lies with themselves and their upbringing. Im not going to be paying my tax dollars to fund other peoples culture's and segregationist tendencies.

I guess that's what you get when you try to make people something they're not.

The next time you pony up for your taxes, just think of it as another legacy cost....

[julie]

I guess that's what you get when you try to make people something they're not.

[George S.]

i like that description voltron head up your ass just about sums you guys up.It''s denial its head up ya ass.It's paranoic its head up ya ass.It's regimemted that we don't exist is head up ya ass.It's a pretend game is head up ya ass.Why would someone identify as greek unless you force them to.That's the head in the you know whar up ya ass.

[AMHRC]

This statement was just broadcasted around Macedonia via MKTV news. I watched it live via UBI television. The news reporter mentioned how AMHRC and MHRMI represent the Macedonian diaspora. Thank you to both organisations for being the true representitive for us Macedonians and for making a diference. Please people, support these organisations for the sake of Macedonia.

Thanks Bill and good to know that the coverage has been wide.

HAGUE JUDGEMENT REINFORCES NEED FOR MACEDONIA TO END SHAMEFUL NAME NEGOTIATIONS

Melbourne, Australia, Toronto, Canada and Skopje, Macedonia
5 December 2011

Not that any more incentive should be needed to stop negotiating your own name, but in a 15-1 vote, the International Court of Justice (ICJ) in The Hague ruled today that Greece violated the United Nations’ sponsored Interim Accord (a 1995 “agreement” between Macedonia and Greece) when it vetoed the Republic of Macedonia’s entry to the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) in April 2008.

Following the Greek veto, in November 2008, Macedonia lodged an application at the ICJ arguing that Greece had violated the terms of 1995 agreement between the two countries. Under the accord, Greece pledged not to block Macedonia’s entry into international organisations under the so called United Nations’ provisional reference, “the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia”.

Greece initiated the nonsensical “name dispute”, objecting to Macedonia’s name, in an effort to detract from its policy of non-recognition and persecution of its large Macedonian minority.

Ironically, it was not until 1988, when Greece realized that independence for the Republic of Macedonia was imminent, that it renamed “Northern Greece” to “Macedonia.” Prior to this, Greece's policy was that Macedonia did not exist.

Despite Greece’s intense propaganda campaign, more than 130 countries (over two thirds of all UN members, and including four of five UN Security Council members) have recognised the Republic of Macedonia.

While today’s decision will be perceived by many as a victory for Macedonia, the Australian Macedonian Human Rights Committee (AMHRC) and Macedonian Human Rights Movement International (MHRMI) urge Macedonians to put the decision into some perspective. Though the judgement demonstrates that Greece cannot be trusted to abide by international agreements, it does not endorse the Republic of Macedonia’s name, nor does it put an end to the disgraceful name “discussions” between Macedonia and its southern neighbour. Therefore to ‘support’ or ‘welcome’ today’s ICJ decision, merely denotes an endorsement for the continued use of the demeaning and racist “FYROM” reference and an acceptance of the destructive 1995 Interim Accord.

The AMHRC and MHRMI have long demanded that the Macedonian government put an end to the name “negotiations” with Greece and today’s ICJ judgment reinforces the obvious need for such a move. These “negotiations” are racist and contrary to the concept of human rights and indeed, the spirit of the UN charter itself.

Furthermore, MHRMI and AMHRC call on Macedonians worldwide to continue their support of the Our Name is Macedonia campaign, which demands that Macedonia immediately end all negotiations over its name:

https://www.mhrmi.org/our_name_is_macedonia

###

Established in 1984 the Australian Macedonian Human Rights Committee (AMHRC) is a non-governmental organisation that informs and advocates before international institutions, governments and broader communities about combating racism and promoting human rights. Our aspiration is to ensure that Macedonian communities and other excluded groups throughout the world, are recognised, respected and afforded equitable treatment. For more information please visit www.macedonianhr.org.au, or email [email protected] or via +61 3 9329 8960.

Macedonian Human Rights Movement International (MHRMI) has been active on human and national rights issues for Macedonians and other oppressed peoples since 1986. For more information: www.mhrmi.org, twitter.com/mhrmi, facebook/mhrmi, [email protected], 1-416-850-7125.

[George S.]

whatever macedonia is doing greece is much smarter & it will outwink macedonia.Greece will stop at nothing they even thought of pulling out of the interim accord themselves.So if greece doesn't follow the court's decision & respect & carry out it's obligation? are we back to square one.

[Voltron]

Vol, I have no interest in Macedonians identifying as 'greek'...
The problem I have is when deluded fools like you deliberately walk around with your heads buried deep in your ass, pretending that the minorities in modern greece actually have a choice in determining self identity.

A succession of racist and fascist lunatics pretending to be politicians in your country have denied this right to self identity to not only the indigenous Macedonian population of modern greece but have insisted in persuing these same vile policies aimed at Macedonian communities outside of modern greece.

So when this subject pops up in discussion and you attribute nice and moral terms like "respect" and "choice", forgive me if I feel a little cynical.

Listen, this is Greece. Just like we lost the war in Asia Minor, you lost the war in Macedonia. If it ever was an ethnic war which I dont believe but just for the sake of the argument. Just like the muslim Chams got their asses handed to them as well. We are not going to go back and try to strengthen the very people that tried to split our country apart. Now you may be cynical, but Im being just honest and realistic. You may call it human rights, I call it being tremendously stupid.