United Macedonia Diaspora

[Vangelovski]

Oh, what a leader of the MTO did in the past is none of nobody's business? So, the same should apply to all people within all organizations. I love it!

No problem with anyone changing allegiances or resigning. But this is a truth organization, right? The truth is that after he resigned, he stated that the UMD had achieved a lot with regards to the Macedonian Cause. 8 months later he is on this forum saying that he can't speak for those achievements of UMD. So what achievements was he referring to in March of 2008? And then why couldn't he speak of them in January of 2009?

These are questions you should be asking yourself. We want to get to the truth, right?

Where did I say this and exactly what did I say?

[Risto the Great]

I love a good clapping emoticon when it is used triumphantly like that.

[George S.]

Vicsand how about you going to the umd & ask them what they achieived during those years you can get it straight from the horses mouth.

[vicsinad]

Victor, are you retarded or just pretending to be? Do you even understand the context of that comment? How about you read the question it was responding to? Bratot asked me what UMD has achieved UP UNTIL NOW. My response was telling him that I'm no longer a UMD member and that he'd best go asking a current representative.

"Just from curiosity, what are the achievments so far.. of UMD?"
That's what he asked. So far would be through its history, as one would assume.

You replied that you were probably the wrong person.

[vicsinad]

Where did I say this and exactly what did I say?

Message #10619 of the Yahoo group Macedonian Media Monitor. Your exact words were:

"I acknowledge that UMD has done a great deal in relation to the Macedonian cause, I was a co-founder of the organisation and have seen every detail of its work."

[vicsinad]

Vicsand how about you going to the umd & ask them what they achieived during those years you can get it straight from the horses mouth.

That doesn't interest me. But ask Tom, he knows...or at least he stated that he knows what they have achieved.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

vicsinad, can you think of ONE good reason why an organization in Diaspora would REFUSE to use the real Macedonian flag at ANY EVENTS and accept something that was FORCED on Macedonia? Human rights violation yes or no?

If, you say strong Greek lobby you should be banned!

NOTE

A, UMD member was just banned from Greece forever .. ventilator never assisted him.

[vicsinad]

vicsinad, can you think of ONE good reason why an organization in Diaspora would REFUSE to use the real Macedonian flag ant ANY EVENTS and accept something that was FORCED on Macedonia? Human rights violation yes or no?

In no way am I affiliated with UMD, and regardless of my answer to that question, it has no bearing on what I was getting at. However, a Macedonian organization of course should be using the original sonce. Is that a human rights violation if they don't? I don't think it amounts to that, as the Macedonian government (elected by the Macedonian citizens to represent them) agreed to the flag.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

I don't think it amounts to that, as the Macedonian government (elected by the Macedonian citizens to represent them) agreed to the flag.

Oh, so Macedonian government(s) and citizens dictate to all Macedonian organizations in Diaspora what we can do, since when?

I AM TALKING ABOUT THE MACEDONIAN DIASPORA

What, you just said means UMD obeys (puppets) what the government and citizens of Macedonia agree to regardless of human rights. BRAVO,

THANK YOU!

[vicsinad]

Oh, so Macedonian government(s) and citizens dictate to all Macedonian organizations in Diaspora what we can do, since when?

I AM TALKING ABOUT THE MACEDONIAN DIASPORA

No. I said, if you reread what I wrote, that they should use the original sonce. But, is it a human rights violation if they don't? No. If you don't agree with them using the current flag that officially represent the RoM, then you don't have to affiliate yourself with them.

As far as what represents the Diaspora, that's up to the Diaspora. The "sun of vergina" wasn't discovered until the 1970s. Much (certainly not all) of the Diaspora before than used other symbols and flags. Did many people of the Diaspora, then or now, have any official say in what flag represents the Republic of Macedonia? No. And furthermore, who in the Diaspora gets to dictate which flag and symbols represents the ethnic Macedonians of the Diaspora, or the ethnic Macedonians in general? Was there a vote? It's certainly not a historical decision, as the world didn't know of the sonce's existence until 4 decades ago.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

And furthermore, who in the Diaspora gets to dictate which flag and symbols represents the ethnic Macedonians of the Diaspora,

Freedom of choice is a BASIC human right and UMD made their choice (ventilator) and now must live with it. FYI, United Macedonians of Canada use both .. who does the UMD fear and exactly why? NGO?

[Vangelovski]

Message #10619 of the Yahoo group Macedonian Media Monitor. Your exact words were:

"I acknowledge that UMD has done a great deal in relation to the Macedonian cause, I was a co-founder of the organisation and have seen every detail of its work."

Victor, you're so out of your depth its amazing. Or maybe you are just retarded. The early days of UMD were very different. In fact, the basic principles on which UMD was founded were worthwhile. It was also comprised of a very different group of people. They all went as Meto stacked the organisation with his own cronies and took the direction it has now.

[Vangelovski]

No. I said, if you reread what I wrote, that they should use the original sonce. But, is it a human rights violation if they don't? No. If you don't agree with them using the current flag that officially represent the RoM, then you don't have to affiliate yourself with them.

As far as what represents the Diaspora, that's up to the Diaspora. The "sun of vergina" wasn't discovered until the 1970s. Much (certainly not all) of the Diaspora before than used other symbols and flags. Did many people of the Diaspora, then or now, have any official say in what flag represents the Republic of Macedonia? No. And furthermore, who in the Diaspora gets to dictate which flag and symbols represents the ethnic Macedonians of the Diaspora, or the ethnic Macedonians in general? Was there a vote? It's certainly not a historical decision, as the world didn't know of the sonce's existence until 4 decades ago.

I think we've gone through the issues surrounding the ventilator ad nausea. I'm not in a tolerating mood on this issue any longer. The ventilator is a clear cut human rights violation and high treason. If you don't know why, look up the relevant ventilator threads or perhaps install a new brain.

[vicsinad]

Victor, you're so out of your depth its amazing. Or maybe you are just retarded. The early days of UMD were very different. In fact, the basic principles on which UMD was founded were worthwhile. It was also comprised of a very different group of people. They all went as Meto stacked the organisation with his own cronies and took the direction it has now.

So then what are these numerous achievements that UMD accomplished from when it was founded until your resignation? And why, 8 months after your resignation, you claimed you could not speak for UMD's achievements when 8 months prior you said you could?

[George S.]

vicsand at least Tom found out & resigned what a shonk the umd was.They started with the right ideals & had everyone nearly fooled.Then when the veil is lifted they are not what they seemed.I'm not a member nor do i wanted to be one when i heard what tom had to say.So what's wrong with that whils't a member you have to probably toe the official line & that is of how they represent the diaspora.At one point i remember how tom joined because he beleived in them but they the umd let us all down badly.The umd lacks real transparency.I remember how the umd was getting free advertising & if you check meto was questioned by rtg & to this day RTG's questiones have not been answered by meto & so far no answer from meto no free advertizing on MTO.As we all saw as reported by tom he saw what was really going on with the umd & chose to resign.
Vicsand you should stop jumping to conclussions if you bother to look about the umd threads how they had their own thread at one time & were welcomed at the MTO.BUT when we found that they are not answering basic questions about the org we let them go.