Razer and Stefan - Bulgar morons

[Razer]

Here's one of the most interesting small churches in Bulgaria. Originally it was build as a Christian temple, then in 1593 it was destroyed by the Ottomans and replaced with a mosque. In the early 20th century it was again converted into a church, keeping the Ottoman building, which gives its unique look. In 2007 it was renovated.

[Onur]

Here's one of the most interesting small churches in Bulgaria. Originally it was build as a Christian temple, then in 1593 it was destroyed by the Ottomans and replaced with a mosque. In the early 20th century it was again converted into a church, keeping the Ottoman building, which gives its unique look. In 2007 it was renovated.

Thats better.

Anyone with a sane mind prefers to see an historical monument in that way. Razor, would you still prefer that building from 1500s to be destroyed and rebuilt in commie style ugliness during your Soviet era?

If you would keep that old Ottoman monuments intact, Bulgaria would look much better today but you just have plain commie ugliness today and you don't have enough money to rebuilt Bulgaria either.

[Razer]

I'm someone who appreciates architecture and history, so yes - I do think Ottoman landmarks of great importance should have been preserved and they actually have been. Perfect example for that is the National Archaeology Museum in Sofia. It occupies what used to be the largest and oldest mosque in the city - the Büyük Camii (Grand Mosque), build all the way back in 1474.



The commie blocks are super ugly, but they'll be fixed soon. From the end of this year they are starting to renovate them. Bulgaria is looking better and better. Downtown Sofia is very charming with it's mixture or authentic Roman, Ottoman and Neoclassical buildings. And currently there is a massive campaign to restore over 200 cultural sites across Bulgaria, many of which are in the so called mixed regions with Turkish population.

[Onur]

Perfect example for that is the National Archaeology Museum in Sofia. It occupies what used to be the largest and oldest mosque in the city - the Büyük Camii (Grand Mosque), build all the way back in 1474.

There was many more in Bulgaria. As far as i know, the Ottoman era monuments which has been destroyed between 1878-1920s was more than 1000 in your country. I think most of them has been destroyed by the Russians soon after 1878.

Bulgaria is looking better and better. Downtown Sofia is very charming with it's mixture or authentic Roman, Ottoman and Neoclassical buildings. And currently there is a massive campaign to restore over 200 cultural sites across Bulgaria, many of which are in the so called mixed regions with Turkish population.

when i gone to Sofia 3 years ago, i liked country side instead of the capital. Sofia was so ugly with unpainted commie blocks and commie style dirty tram. We never destroyed anything in Istanbul and thats why it`s beautiful today with a mixture of Roman, Ottoman and modern buildings.

Also, there is one more thing which i have never understood. Turks built hamams in wherever they gone and most of these hamams built upon hot spring water sources. Balkan states either destroyed or abandoned these buildings for some reason. I heard that there are many abandoned hamams in Macedonia too. Only Hungary still uses these Turkish hamams in Budapest. I didn't go to there myself but my friends told me that hamams are so popular in there and attracts many tourist too. Why Macedonia, Bulgaria abandoned these hamams?

I searched in google for the ones in Budapeste, still intact and functioning since 1500s;

http://www.budapest-tourist-guide.co...-budapest.html

Hamam experience is the best thing ever. I really wonder why you abandoned these!

[George S.]

maybe they are not used to it public baths. I think some people still don't see the value of the turkish baths but others do for health reasonsHungary hapens to be of turkish descent so they still used the turkish baths.

[Razer]

The photos above are awesome. I know there used to be Turkish baths in Sofia, but were destroyed in the late 19th century.

Please understand something - the Turks destroyed a great deal of Bulgaria's (and Macedonia's) medieval heritage. Some they destroyed during their conquest and others they just used for material after that to build their mosques. In fact, the biggest mosque in Bulgaria - Tombul Mosque, has stone material from Pliska, the first medieval capital of Bulgaria.

And you're wrong about Sofia - many people do the same mistake of judging the city only by it's outskirts and the commie blocks. The downtown area is completely different and surprisingly beautiful. I love the atmosphere in that part of Sofia, especially now in summer - it feels cosmopolitan, European, Mediterranean and yet Balkan.

[Onur]

Hungary hapens to be of turkish descent so they still used the turkish baths.

Hehe no George, Hungarians just doesn't hold grudge towards us unlike other Balkan states, thats the only difference.

Please understand something - the Turks destroyed a great deal of Bulgaria's (and Macedonia's) medieval heritage. Some they destroyed during their conquest and others they just used for material after that to build their mosques. In fact, the biggest mosque in Bulgaria - Tombul Mosque, has stone material from Pliska, the first medieval capital of Bulgaria.

I do understand your point but you guys speak like Turks gone there, occupied the place, destroyed the things and left. You should also understand that we were there from 1390s to 1878. Thats a lot of time. Do you honestly think how many of those medieval buildings built earlier than 1390 AD would remain intact today if there would be no Ottoman era?

When you think about this issue, please consider that Bulgaria and pretty much whole Balkans became part of Ottoman empire as early as 1390s. Also, when you criticize us about the stolen lime stones from Pliska, you better consider that it was done in 1400s, about 600 years ago from now. Do you expect 21st century mentality from Turks of 600 years ago?

What was your Bulgarian peoples mentality in 1400s? Bulgarians of 600 years ago were respecting historical monuments, had consciousness of human rights, obeying the international laws? You were perfectly modern in 1400s and only Turks were not?

[chentovist]

The difference between Hungary and the Balkan Christian states is that the Balkan states still have issues with their muslim populations. Macedonia and Bulgaria have large restive muslim minorities, Hungary does not and can therefore celebrate any tiny, exotic oriental parts of it's history.

[Razer]

Do you honestly think how many of those medieval buildings built earlier than 1390 AD would remain intact today if there would be no Ottoman era?

Of course not all of them, but many would have survived till today if not in their entire form at least partially...Not just like ruins. I don't blame the Ottomans only - the Mongols and the Kiev Russ also did plenty of damage. But overall, the Ottoman yoke was more devastating to the Christian Balkan countries than anything else in the past 2000 years. Communism takes second place in my book.

When you think about this issue, please consider that Bulgaria and pretty much whole Balkans became part of Ottoman empire as early as 1390s. Also, when you criticize us about the stolen lime stones from Pliska, you better consider that it was done in 1400s, about 600 years ago from now. Do you expect 21st century mentality from Turks of 600 years ago?

Actually the Tombul Mosque was build in 1740, not the 1400's. That's over 300 years into the Yoke. Serdica was also used for building materials until as recently as the 19th century.

But let's remember that today Bulgaria and Turkey are close allies and enjoy a positive partnership. And I hope it stays that way.

[Dejan]

Dejan, how exactly do you want me to define Buglars?

Religious affiliation? Ethnic sense? History tells us that bulgar was a religious connotation not too long ago...

[George S.]

the greeks are celebrating the 100 year occupation of the aegean area.Will your side be celebrating 100 years of pirin macedonia occupation.So razer will you be passing the bulgarian rakia around????Do you think either or both of greece should give thev macedonians their land back ?after all that's all it was a land grab .The rest is history.

[Razer]

Religious affiliation? Ethnic sense? History tells us that bulgar was a religious connotation not too long ago...

Nobody knows for sure what was the religion of the Buglars. There used to be an old theory that it was Tengrism (which was labeled to the Buglars automatically without the support of any archaeological evidence or historical records), following the old belief that Buglars where Turkic.

But there are remains of temples in Pliska (the first capital of the Bulgars) which point more in the direction that the Buglars' religion was Zoroastrianism. I hope in near future we'll be able to make a more solid conclusions.

Ethnic sense?

Again, there are two theories - the old one that they were of Turkic origin, and the more recent one (developed in the past 30 years or so) that point to Iranian.

[Razer]

the greeks are celebrating the 100 year occupation of the aegean area.Will your side be celebrating 100 years of pirin macedonia occupation.So razer will you be passing the bulgarian rakia around????Do you think either or both of greece should give thev macedonians their land back ?after all that's all it was a land grab .The rest is history.

As far as I know, there are no such celebrations in Bulgaria but I'll keep you posted. And no - I'm not going to have any rakia since I don't drink alcohol. And I don't think Greece or Bulgaria will even give up even a meter of their land without a fight, even if it was a land grab.

[Voltron]

Onur makes it sound like the Ottomans were doing them a favor by leaving most infrastructure in place. FFS these ppl were originally living in yurts hanging beef jerky from clothes lines. They literally stumbled on civilsations that were light years ahead of their nomadic living. Tell me if you were nomad living off of horse blood and yoghurt cooked up in a tent, Would you destroy a infrastructure never could of imagined of ?
No, nobody would. Instead they occupied it and turned them into mosques while adopting Byzantine architecture with Islamic scribblings as their own.

[Razer]

THE 1st MACEDONIAN AMATEUR OPEN CHAMPIONSHIP

The Macedonia Golf Federation and the Bulgarian Golf Association have great pleasure in presenting the 1st Macedonian Amateur Open Championship from 30th June to 1st July 2012 to be played over the St. Sofia Golf Club & SPA.
The Championship format will be stroke play over two rounds of eighteen holes. The Plate tournament will be Singles Stableford played over two rounds of eighteen holes.
Please note that all entries should be received by the Bulgarian Golf Association no later than Wednesday 27th June 2012.

Entry fee - 99 euro.
For St. Sofia members only - 60 BGN entry fee, including the opening and closing parties.