Razer and Stefan - Bulgar morons

[Razer]

I gave the bread as an example of the similarities between the Bulgarians and the Chuvash. We all know Bulgarian culture has many Slav elements, but it also has some striking differences. One of the best examples is the so called "open-throat" singing which as far as I know is uniquely Bulgarian. Correct me if you can find it in other Slav nations. Onur, do you have anything similar to that in Turkey?

Music IDOL- Bulgaria- Nevena- Incredible Voice Performance - YouTube

[Onur]

People adopt different mainstream languages as they travel to foreign lands and mix with other more dominant cultures. We use English in this forum, does that makes us Brits? Look at the Macedonians in this forum who live in Australia. I'm pretty sure they use English most of the time, and imagine what language they'll be speaking after 10 generations in Australia? Good example is the US, where you have people of Italian origin, or Polish, or any other, only speaking in English.

You are falling into same mistake just as you did by criticizing Ottoman authorities for damaging historical monuments in 1400s.

There are two stages for the mankind about the cultural transformation issue. The world before the invention of mass education in 19th century and the world after that. You cannot compare medieval era by today`s standards. Before the modern mass education methods, there was only one way to change people`s culture and it was intermarrying and massacring the ones who resists cultural transformation but after the modern education techniques, we don't need that anymore. I mean today, a tiny minority can transform the culture of a large group by using mass education methods but this was not possible in early ages.

The Bulgars were under Turkic domination almost 1000 years before the Ottomans. They felt under the rule of the powerful Turkic empires - those of the Avars and the Gokturks.

You are chasing the ghosts just like your Iranist Bulgarian scholars does. You are imagining something like Bulgars were Iranians but later assimilated into Turkic culture but where is your proof? You are chasing shallows and ghosts without a proof.

Also, not only Bulgars, Hungarians, various Uralic peoples and all other slavs were under Avar or Gokturk domination for centuries too. Only Bulgars assimilated but why not the others?

I agree there is some slight resembles, but Turkish folklore is still very, very different from Bulgarian. I'm not just talking about the costumes, but also music, musical instruments, traditions and customs, legends, beliefs, ect...And I don't think today's Turkish folklore is anything Turkic. The original Turkic folklore is more similar to that of the native American Indians.

You are ignoring the facts again. Bulgarian folklore is no different than Turkish or other Balkan folklore. You are using same instruments as us with Turkish names, similar music and similar clothing with Turkish names again.

Turkish folklore has roots from early Turkic customs. Just take a look at the Volga bulgar, Chuvash women pictures you posted here. Also we brought instruments like davul/tapan, zurla, saz from central Asia, we didn't invent these in Anatolia. We also brought the motifs of our folklore clothing, carpets from there too. There are same motifs on the carpets found in Eurasia from antique era.

We all know Bulgarian culture has many Slav elements, but it also has some striking differences. One of the best examples is the so called "open-throat" singing which as far as I know is uniquely Bulgarian. Correct me if you can find it in other Slav nations. Onur, do you have anything similar to that in Turkey?

Throat singing is a Eurasian custom of early nomad peoples. Search on youtube with the tag "throat singing" and see for yourself. Afaik, there are videos of bulgarian throat singing choirs performing together with central Asian peoples.

And yes, throat singing custom still continues among yoruk turkmen groups in Turkey, probably continues among the Bulgarian Turks of Deliorman, Dobruca too.

[Razer]

Dude, you can't be serious. The so called Mongolian throat singing is world apart from even anything resembling the Bulgarian. Lets everyone compare the two and tell me what they think:

Throat singing from Central Asia:

Tuvan Throat Singing - YouTube

Mongolian Throat-singing, dissected - YouTube

Throat Singing - Travel Agency Girl's Boyfriend - YouTube

Music of Mongolia 7/7 :Six methods of the khoomii - YouTube

Kongar-ol Ondar on David Letterman's Late Show - YouTube

Bulgarian singing:

Trio Bulgarka at BEST NIGHT MUSIC - YouTube

Neli Andreeva - Malka moma / Little Girl- YouTube

[EgejskaMakedonia]

Razer, are you deliberately trying to play games and send in-direct messages in your posts?

Zajdi Zajdi is a Macedonian song that you have listed under this so called 'bulgarian singing.' Please edit your post and acknowledge the correct and original version if you want your arguments to be taken seriously.

No doubt you will say it was an unintentional mistake, but something makes me think otherwise.

[Razer]

Ok, I took it out. But are you aware the original text was written by Luben Karavelov like 100 years before Aleksandar Sarievski? What I posed was a modern Bulgarian version and I honestly didn't tough you'd find it provocative. I just wanted to showcase the Bulgarian style of female vocals.

[Razer]

Btw, what was the name of that Macedonian singer who died in a car crash? Shame, he was talented. I remember seeing a brilliant song of him...Was it even that same song? I can't remember...Sorry that I can't remember, but it was ages ago...

[George S.]

toshe projeski.definitely needs acknowledgement if it's established macedonian songs.

[Razer]

Yeah, that was him. One of the best Balkan singers in recent years...It's a shame he left us so early.

[slovenec zrinski]

Sarievski own words about Zajdi Zajdi

"The song Zajdi, zajdi, jasno sonce emerged from the folk song Černej, goro, černej, sestro. In listening to that song and occasionally singing it, I came up with the idea to make something similar in terms of content, but with a completely different melody. So, I gradually began to sing the song, which would soon after become very popular everywhere I sung it. That song means a lot to me because it was received well by many individuals interested in folk music, but above all it means a lot to me because it was accepted by the people. Every time I'd go somewhere I think everyone present expected me to sing it."

Now I would like to know if the version of Karavelov is from his collected folksongs OR his own poems. I cant find info about that.

[slovenec zrinski]

Црнеј горо, црнеј сестро двајца да црнејме ти за твојте лисја ле горо јас за мојта младост. Твојте лисја, горо сестро пак ќе ти се вратат а мојата младост горо нема да се врати. Мене мајка ме посврши преку три планини што не сакав горо сестро на пат да го сретнам. Дење оди горо сестро по твојата шума ноќе оди горо сестро по бели друмови. Сношти ми донесе горо братовата рака јас ја познав горо сестро по златниот прстен. Црнеј горо, црнеј сестро двајца да црнејме ти за твојте лисја горо јас за мојта младост

Lyrics to the folksong Crnej Goro

[Razer]

We know that 1/3 of the lyrics were written originally by Karavelov in his collection of poems called "Сбирайте са, моми, булки" (poem "На Васил Левски"). The remaining lyrics are taken from another traditional song called "Булка върви из гора зелена". My guess is that the song has evolved in different parts of the Balkans over the last 100 years, and today we can find different versions in Macedonia, Bulgaria, Serbia and Bosnia.

The following part is from Karavelov's poem:

Зайди, зайди, ясно сонце,
Зайди, помрачи се,
И ти, ясна ле месечино,
Бегай, удави се.

Here's Karavelov original poem from 1875:

Сбирайте са, моми, булки,
и млади ергене!
Да чуете барем една
песен и от мене...
Събрахте са. Знайте сега,
че моята песен
не весели младо сърдце, -
мерише на плесен.
"Слънце ярко, слънце светло,
зайди, помрачи са;
а ти, ясна месечинко,
бягай, удави са!
Не светете на турските
кръвави тирани,
които са телата ни
покриле със рани;
не светете на гръцките
духовни търговци,
които са испояле
свойте мирни овци;
не светете на нашите
дебели хаджие,
които са най-първите
хорски кеседжие;
не светете на нашите
кални вестникари,
които са совестьта си
за кокал продале;
не светете на нашите
писатели черни,
които са на турците
чеда мили, верни;
не светете на нашите
учители - крави,
кои носат изгнил мозак
вов кратуни здрави!
Слънце ярко, слънце светло,
небесно светило!
Не нагрявай веч старото, -
то е мъртво, гнило!
Месечинко, виторожко,
не свети богато
над гюбрето, над боклукът,
над хорското блато!
Съберете свойте лучи,
роскошно изгрейте,
над младото, пролетното
свет Христов излейте;
осветлете българската
бесилница света,
която е възвдигната
от ръка проклета!
Тука виси добар юнак,
или млада сила,
която е воскресила
свойта майка мила;
която е пробудила
свойто мило племе,
която е посеяла
ново, здраво семе."

Here's the extract from the "Булка върви из гора зелена" song:

Црней, горо, црней, сестро,
Двайца (двата) да црнееме,
Ти за твоите лися ле, горо,
Яз за мойта младост.
Твоите лися, горо сестро,
Пак к'е ти се вратат,
мойта младост, горо ле, сестро,
Нема да се врати.

And here are the full lyrics of "Булка върви из гора зелена":

Булка върви, булка върви през гора зелена,
като върви, като върви, жално-милно плаче,
жално-милно плаче, джанам, плаче и нарежда :
"Черней, горо, черней, сестро, двама да чернейме,
ти за твойте листи, горо, аз за първо либе.
Тебе та е, горо-ле сестро, слана осланила,
мене ма е, горо-ле сестро, мама оженила,
мама оженила, горо-ле сестро, за лудо-младо либе.
Нощя ходи, горо-ле сестро, по широко поле,
деня ходи, горо-ле сестро, из дълбоки доли.
Вечер иде, горо-ле сестро, армаган ми носи,
армаган ми носи, горо-ле сестро, се кървави дрехи,
се кървави дрехи, горо-ле сестро, се търговски глави.
Черней горо, черней, сестро, двама да чернейме -
ти за твойте листи, горо, аз за първо либе.
Твойте листи, горо-ле сестро, пак щът да покарат,
мойта младост, горо-ле сестро не ще се повърне.

[Razer]

I just hope we're not going to fight over such a beautiful song that's celebrated all over the Balkans. I admit Tose's sings it best.

Tose Proeski - Zajdi zajdi (uzivo, gitara) - YouTube

[George S.]

yeah toses sings it as if it was made for him beautiful.You have bulgarians singing makedonche devojce kitka sarena or vojo's golemba avadba.Or stani mome da zaigrash.These are in the folloric songs as macedonian.Also zaidi zaid is another song that people should acknowledge.It's only respect & curtesy.The greeks are doing the same thing as well as the serbians.

[Risto the Great]

So a loaf of bread is an example of bulgarianism? So I am bulgarian each morning when I prepare the bread to take to work? lol

You filthy Bulgar!

[Risto the Great]

I don't know mate, what do you think?

If I had to use one word to describe her I would say "ready".