Razer and Stefan - Bulgar morons

[Soldier of Macedon]

I have quoted you from the other thread.

I'd like to say that I recognise Macedonia as a separate and independent country.....

Do you recognise the distinct ethnic identity of the Macedonian people?

I do admit that the Bulgarian government has done lots of mistakes towards the people in Macedonia.

There are many mistakes. Which one's would you admit to?

I don't agree with some of your views about the Bulgarian history (mainly the turkic origin).........

It is a view held by many Macedonians, but also by many others also. Nevertheless, I suspect that you think the original Bulgars were Iranian types as opposed to being Turkic. I wouldn't discount them being a mix of both, but to deny any Turkic element would be wrong. How else would you explain why they called their kings as 'khans'?

I hope we can chat about those stuff in a positive and constructive way. I think we the people need to be building bridges, not burning them.

Likewise.

But what shocked me the most, and still does, is the negative attitude of Bulgarians - all they do is complain and point the finger to others, but never to themselves...

There are many people in Macedonia who are the same. Some have even frequented this forum from time to time.

[George S.]

Razer what is your view as to the language the macedonians speak is it bulgarian or Macedonian? Also in Pirin Macedonia there are many hundreds of thousands of macedonians some stimate up to 800,000 when are they going to be given their fundamental human rights & recognition as a minority.Also Bulgaria has this ongoing thing that macedonia belongs to them.
My personal understanding of the real Bulgarians is that they dissappeared early in history.So you got the tartars coming down & calling themselves bulgarian Also the tartars didn't have a language of their own & adopted a language of which you must be aware of from their nearest neighbour.
I have nothing agains't the bulgarian people,it's been a dovernment sponsored thing to deny the existence of macedonians to take their land & to spread lies about how we speak bulgarian.We are macedonian & macedonian we'll stay.Sometimes we would like to be respected of who we are.Just imagine if we could work together for the common good of the balkan area.We would all prosper in peace,instead we have the opposite.
RB despite of what is going on the macedonian still has a heart & soul we should live in a world of mutual respect & recognition a country where fundamental human rights are followed.

[Razer]

Do you recognise the distinct ethnic identity of the Macedonian people?

Yes, I do believe that the majority of the Macedonians are separate ethnic group and not Greek, Serbs or Bulgarians. You have every right to have your own country and to be equal members of the EU.

There are many mistakes. Which one's would you admit to?

Mainly the mistakes (calling them mistakes is actually too soft) of the Communist regime, but also the policies of the Bulgarian monarchy before that. The main objective of Bulgaria during WWI and WWII was to get back the lost territory of the San Stefano treaty, which turned out to be a disaster.

It is a view held by many Macedonians, but also by many others also. Nevertheless, I suspect that you think the original Bulgars were Iranian types as opposed to being Turkic. I wouldn't discount them being a mix of both, but to deny any Turkic element would be wrong. How else would you explain why they called their kings as 'khans'?

Well, to be honest, we don't know 100% what the original homeland of the Buglars was, but calling them mongols or tatars is just crazy and I don't know why this is so popular in Macedonia. It's probably due to some left-overs of Serbian anti-Bulgarian propaganda, I'm not sure... Perhaps you can tell me.

As for being Turkic - the rulers of the Dulo dynasty were never called "khans" but "kanasubigi" and the earliest evidence of the word "Bulgar" is from 354 AD while the term "Turkic" appears much later, in the 6th century. Nobody doubts there are Turkic elements in Buglar history, but we know so little today that in fact it could be the other way around. An interesting fact is that I have a friend who was in Afghanistan and he told me that the locals there kept saying that the original homeland of the Bulgarian was in Afghanistan. Only research will tell - this is a topic that today's Bulgarian historians and archaeologists should be studying.

There are many people in Macedonia who are the same. Some have even frequented this forum from time to time.

I think this is a common phenomena on the Balkans. It's like a mixture of fear, sense of hopelessness and dissolution. In Bulgaria, only around 40% of people vote and this is why we end up with lunatics ruling the country. GERB was elected with only 15% of the Bulgarian population's support. However, I'm positive for the future because my generation (those in their 30's) is well educated, positive and with a lot of potential.

[Razer]

@ George S.

This is why I think we the people need to engage in open and honest communication. Leave the dirty politics out of it...I can assure you that 99 out of 100 Bulgarians don't want a conflict with Macedonia and are very happy with you having your own country. I repeat never come across a Bulgarian who actually wants to "get back Macedonia". Only some nutcase can think of this in 21st century Europe. This summer I plan to do a lot of travelling, and will try to visit Pirin to see the situation there with my own eyes. It's true - our constitution does not recognise minorities.

As for Bulgarians disappearing early in history...I find that very hard to believe. You can say that for Volga Bulgaria, which was destroyed by the Mongols and the Russ, but Danube Bulgaria managed to survive.

[George S.]

Razer I'm saying the pure Bulgarians ceased to exist earlier on in history to be replaced by tartars (turkic).whether it applies to the whole of the bulgarians i don't know.Also what are the chances of prin macedonia being free or is that too much too soon.
Good to hear that the people don't want a conflict with mcedonia.
We had an article on a thread here that said that if the albanians try & take over macedonia.The bulgarians will step in for their piece of the action as Bulgaria considers parts of macedonia as theirs.
Razer the 64 $ question.What do you think of the balkan wars 1912-1913 with the eventual partition of macedonia.How can one country belong to four others??
Do you think from the bulgarian perspective the bulgarians will let the macedonians join up with macedonia.??

[George S.]

Razer I'm saying the pure Bulgarians ceased to exist earlier on in history to be replaced by tartars (turkic).whether it applies to the whole of the bulgarians i don't know.Also what are the chances of prin macedonia being free or is that too much too soon.
Good to hear that the people don't want a conflict with mcedonia.
We had an article on a thread here that said that if the albanians may try & take over macedonia.The bulgarians will step in for their piece of the action as Bulgaria considers parts of macedonia as theirs.
Razer the 64 $ question.What do you think of the balkan wars 1912-1913 with the eventual partition of macedonia.How can one country belong to four others??
Do you think from the bulgarian perspective the bulgarians will let the macedonians join up withRom macedonia.??

[Razer]

Sometimes we would like to be respected of who we are.Just imagine if we could work together for the common good of the balkan area.We would all prosper in peace,instead we have the opposite.
RB despite of what is going on the macedonian still has a heart & soul we should live in a world of mutual respect & recognition a country where fundamental human rights are followed.

Spot-on! We have everything we need here - beautiful nature, water, food and the most beautiful women on the planet

[George S.]

that's it open the borders & share the good life.!
How was life in africa & what trade did you do??In comparison to the standard of living of bulgaria.?
Also has Bulgaria made a lot of borrowings like greece & can't pay them back??

[Soldier of Macedon]

Yes, I do believe that the majority of the Macedonians are separate ethnic group and not Greek, Serbs or Bulgarians.

Ok. But your answer is a bit ambiguous. What do you mean the 'majority' of Macedonians? Are you making reference to 'Macedonians' as a geographical description or an ethnic one? Because I was only making reference to ethnicity. I already know non-Macedonians like Greeks, Serbs and Bulgarians also live in Macedonia. Just like their own regions also have Macedonians living in them.

You have every right to have your own country and to be equal members of the EU.

The EU won't accept us unless we change the name of our country. Bulgaria has often supported Greece's idiotic crusade in this regard. Screw the EU.

The main objective of Bulgaria during WWI and WWII was to get back the lost territory of the San Stefano treaty, which turned out to be a disaster.

San Stefano was nothing but a fictional dream of Russia, and from its ashes arose the modern state of Bulgaria. It was the local Macedonian population led by people like Pulevski, Malesevski, etc that actually fought in Macedonia. If anything, Bulgarians made things difficult for Macedonians, as was testified by people like Pulevski and co. See the below, clause 132 from the Rules of the Macedonian Committee, which fought against the Ottomans during the Kresna Uprising:

Our Macedonian Uprising is internal and we are carrying it out with our own forces, and the neighbouring districts within the Principality of Bulgaria do not have a fraternal attitude and send our emissaries back without giving them arms, so that we, too, do not have enough to be able to help our Macedonian brothers inside Macedonia.

Even before Macedonians and Bulgarians began to take up arms against the Ottomans, tensions existed. Unfortunately, Bulgarians could never quite grasp the Macedonian desire for self-rule, their desire to speak and write in their own language and dialects, to have their own church, etc.

Well, to be honest, we don't know 100% what the original homeland of the Buglars was, but calling them mongols or tatars is just crazy and I don't know why this is so popular in Macedonia. It's probably due to some left-overs of Serbian anti-Bulgarian propaganda, I'm not sure... Perhaps you can tell me.

Here is an example from 1871, from the condescending Petko Slaveikov:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=21980&highlight=petko+slaveikov#post21980

Some Macedonists distinguish themselves from the Bulgarians upon another basis - they are pure Slavs, while the Bulgarians are Tartars and so on.

The notion was around long before the Serbian occupation of Macedonia.

As for being Turkic - the rulers of the Dulo dynasty were never called "khans" but "kanasubigi"

The first record of any 'Dulo' clan is from around 800 years after Asparuh. And the first part of the Bulgar title of 'kanasubigi' still includes the word 'khan', just in a more archaic form as 'kana'.

.......and the earliest evidence of the word "Bulgar" is from 354 AD.....

In which source was the word 'Bulgar' mentioned in 354 AD?

An interesting fact is that I have a friend who was in Afghanistan and he told me that the locals there kept saying that the original homeland of the Bulgarian was in Afghanistan. Only research will tell - this is a topic that today's Bulgarian historians and archaeologists should be studying.

I believe they are, in fact, Bulgarian scholars have gone to great lengths to distance themselves from any Turkic origin.

[George S.]

Razer do you think macedonia should continue with the name negotiations to join eu & nato.In the end just to please greece.?
Do you think Bulgaria should pull out of the eu??Do you think Bulgaria has benefited much from the eu??

[Razer]

Razer do you think macedonia should continue with the name negotiations to join eu & nato.In the end just to please greece.?

Do you think Bulgaria should pull out of the eu??Do you think Bulgaria has benefited much from the eu??

I think the Greeks are full of...you know what. We'll just have to wait and see what the future of Europe holds. Both EU and NATO are only as good as the country's government. If you have people working for the national interests then the EU can be of benefit.

[George S.]

do you think it's fair the way the macedonians were really meeting the requirements of entrance to eu & nato but because of differences that greece has a problem with the name & thereby greece forcing macedonia to change the name if they want in nato or eu.

[Razer]

that's it open the borders & share the good life.!
How was life in africa & what trade did you do??In comparison to the standard of living of bulgaria.?
Also has Bulgaria made a lot of borrowings like greece & can't pay them back??

Life in Africa was fun I spent 4 years living in Johannesburg and 10 in Cape Town. Bulgaria feels like another planet, but I'm happy to be back. The feeling to be at home and among old friends is priceless. I do web design and photography, so I have the freedom to work from anywhere in the world. Living standards here are good if you work in the upper sector or have your own business. Internet is also a lot cheaper and faster than in SA, where I was paying something like 100 euro for 3 gigs and the speed was like like 100kb/s. The food and women are beyond comparing of course lf we only learn to appreciated what we all have!

And no - Bulgaria has a very low dept. In fact it's the second lowest in the EU - 16% of the GDP vs Greece's 165%.

[Razer]

do you think it's fair the way the macedonians were really meeting the requirements of entrance to eu & nato but because of differences that greece has a problem with the name & thereby greece forcing macedonia to change the name if they want in nato or eu.

I don't think the Greeks have the right to veto you. But I think part of the problem is that there is a sense of United or Greater Macedonia coming from your side, which the Greeks see as a thread.

Right now what worries me is those crazy Albanians.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I don't think the Greeks have the right to veto you. But I think part of the problem is that there is a sense of United or Greater Macedonia coming from your side, which the Greeks see as a thread.

Of all the countries in the Balkans, Macedonia is the least irredentist. Sure, we often speak of all of Macedonia as our historical home, but we don't make sly threats against our neighbours. This apparent 'threat' that Greece sees is nothing but a dumb excuse to support their own irredentist and idiotic claims on our land and people. I mean, how on earth is Macedonia a 'threat' to Greece or any other country?