Razer and Stefan - Bulgar morons

[Soldier of Macedon]

It bothered him that this forum was an echo chamber. A Macedonian echo chamber that proudly and unashamedly defends the honour and integrity of the Macedonian identity, history and language. He made no attempt to even hide the fact that he would much rather hear conciliatory voices and opinions that would appease those who seek to destroy the very things each of us here strive to safeguard.

If this forum was that much of an echo chamber, there would be no mention of anti-Macedonian opinions at all. But we cite plenty of articles and reports that seek to destroy Macedonia. In turn, we contest and destroy those opinions by giving voice to the truth about Macedonia. Thus, there is no need to allow chauvinistic morons to reinforce anti-Macedonian lies which have already been cited and discussed. The very purpose of this forum is to promote the Macedonian perspective, which is based on the truth and not a collection of manipulative tales that are conjured by people who are ignorant, delusional or suffer from an inferiority complex.

[Karposh]

Keep weeding them out SoM. They can pretend as much as they want but, sadly for them, they don't even realise just how stupid they are when they inevitably reveal their ugly faces for all to see. And, the second they do, just keep doing what you do best. Cancel the bastards. Pleme gnasno nivno.

It bothered him that this forum was an echo chamber. A Macedonian echo chamber that proudly and unashamedly defends the honour and integrity of the Macedonian identity, history and language. He made no attempt to even hide the fact that he would much rather hear conciliatory voices and opinions that would appease those who seek to destroy the very things each of us here strive to safeguard.

[VMRO]

Stefan the Bulgar has departed. Even after all these years, it is amazing to what lengths these idiotic propagandists will still go to in an effort to dupe unsuspecting observers. He came here like some charlatan pretending to speak on behalf of Macedonians, yet every single point he made was right out of the anti-Macedonian playbook that is relentlessly excreted by Bulgar nationalists on a daily basis. I moved all of his posts to this thread as his stupidity resembled that of another Bulgar that slithered his way into the forum some years ago. It is these types of rubbish people that Macedonians need to deal with. They deceptively insist on the Bulgar origin of the Macedonian identity and language, all the while ignoring the fact that the Bulgar identity has a Turkic origin, which was the dominant element until they began to adopt the language of Macedonia in the 9th century. As Macedonians, we will never be at peace with such people.

Bog da go prosti

[Soldier of Macedon]

We said SoM, his posts weren’t thinly veiled despite his pathetic attempts, they were outright Bulgarian propaganda.

Thanks Spirit. The deceptive nature of his presence was evident after his initial post. That whole thing about signing up for debate was obviously a joke. He already had a predetermined position and he knew our position. He wasn't going to convince us to accept treachery and we weren't going to convince him to cease being a moron. His main argument was that we draw back from the progress that our predecessors made with respect to the global recognition of the Macedonian language whilst framing his own demeaning positions as "realistic". And he kept repeating it, like the obedient propagandist robot that he was. It's a film we've all seen before. They extend their hand in friendship, and once Macedonians become receptive, they use it to claim we're the same people. Same deal with the language. No sane person would argue that Macedonian and Bulgarian aren't related languages. They are closer to each other than they are to other Slavic languages. But there are other Slavic languages, such as literary Croatian and Serbian, that are almost identical. A similar situation exists with literary Czech and Slovak. The nations who speak those languages moved past the 19th century and continue to develop individually, yet we're meant to go back in time to appease some insecure Bulgar politicians and historians just because many of the significant personalities that had an impact in their region were either from Macedonia or were Macedonian by ancestry. When they accuse Macedonia of supposedly having a Bulgar origin, therefore, it is beyond the pot calling the kettle black, it is a blatant falsification of history that is masked by an ambiguous "Bulgar" designation which had different meanings during different periods. They know this. They know we know this. But they continue to send in their drones and attempt to use our platforms to spread their vicious lies and manipulations to others. Not here. Not ever.

To be honest SoM, it wouldn't surprise me if he was Macedonian. We had Yugoslavs that told us we'd starve to death of we left Serbia. We had Fyromians that insisted that we had to submit to Greece. Now we have Northdonians who will insist we have to acquiesce to Bulgaria. Its probably the same lot. They just jump from one treason to the next.

I hear you, but deference and support aren't the same (although in the case of Macedonia, they're equally damaging). Many of those who vote for Zaev may defer political decisions to him and some may even passively accept them, but they aren't out there in numbers to promote his recent (supposed) solution on the language issue or deny the existence of Macedonians in Bulgaria. Also, bulgarophiles inadvertently exhibit certain Macedonian characteristics from time to time, which are inescapable. There is a noticeable (and unavoidable) difference between that and when somebody is trying too hard to exhibit Macedonian characteristics, like the clown in question. His propagandist talking points also came to him too naturally. He wrote like a Bulgar pretending to be Macedonian rather than a Macedonian pretending to be a Bulgar. It's a charade that can never be maintained for long.

[Vangelovski]

Stefan the Bulgar has departed. Even after all these years, it is amazing to what lengths these idiotic propagandists will still go to in an effort to dupe unsuspecting observers. He came here like some charlatan pretending to speak on behalf of Macedonians, yet every single point he made was right out of the anti-Macedonian playbook that is relentlessly excreted by Bulgar nationalists on a daily basis. I moved all of his posts to this thread as his stupidity resembled that of another Bulgar that slithered his way into the forum some years ago. It is these types of rubbish people that Macedonians need to deal with. They deceptively insist on the Bulgar origin of the Macedonian identity and language, all the while ignoring the fact that the Bulgar identity has a Turkic origin, which was the dominant element until they began to adopt the language of Macedonia in the 9th century. As Macedonians, we will never be at peace with such people.

To be honest SoM, it wouldn't surprise me if he was Macedonian. We had Yugoslavs that told us we'd starve to death of we left Serbia. We had Fyromians that insisted that we had to submit to Greece. Now we have Northdonians who will insist we have to acquiesce to Bulgaria. Its probably the same lot. They just jump from one treason to the next.

[Spirit]

Stefan the Bulgar has departed. Even after all these years, it is amazing to what lengths these idiotic propagandists will still go to in an effort to dupe unsuspecting observers. He came here like some charlatan pretending to speak on behalf of Macedonians, yet every single point he made was right out of the anti-Macedonian playbook that is relentlessly excreted by Bulgar nationalists on a daily basis. I moved all of his posts to this thread as his stupidity resembled that of another Bulgar that slithered his way into the forum some years ago. It is these types of rubbish people that Macedonians need to deal with. They deceptively insist on the Bulgar origin of the Macedonian identity and language, all the while ignoring the fact that the Bulgar identity has a Turkic origin, which was the dominant element until they began to adopt the language of Macedonia in the 9th century. As Macedonians, we will never be at peace with such people.

We said SoM, his posts weren’t thinly veiled despite his pathetic attempts, they were outright Bulgarian propaganda.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Stefan the Bulgar has departed. Even after all these years, it is amazing to what lengths these idiotic propagandists will still go to in an effort to dupe unsuspecting observers. He came here like some charlatan pretending to speak on behalf of Macedonians, yet every single point he made was right out of the anti-Macedonian playbook that is relentlessly excreted by Bulgar nationalists on a daily basis. I moved all of his posts to this thread as his stupidity resembled that of another Bulgar that slithered his way into the forum some years ago. It is these types of rubbish people that Macedonians need to deal with. They deceptively insist on the Bulgar origin of the Macedonian identity and language, all the while ignoring the fact that the Bulgar identity has a Turkic origin, which was the dominant element until they began to adopt the language of Macedonia in the 9th century. As Macedonians, we will never be at peace with such people.

[Soldier of Macedon]

You've lived outside of Macedonia your whole life and thus have no right to lecture me on what I am and what I'm not. I'm also sure your fluency in Macedonian isn't as good as your English, which is why it's not surprising that you have no idea what languages are similar to it.

Where I have lived or for how long I lived there has no bearing on what you are and what you're pretending to be. Don't be too concerned about my fluency in Macedonian. I know the similarities and differences between Macedonian and other languages better than you do, or at the very least, I am more honest about them than you are.

We have a disagreement on steps Macedonia should take as I'm a realist and you live in a fantasy, and so you accuse me of being a Bulgarian or a traitor.

Your "step" is for Macedonia to concede that the national language is the same as that of Bulgaria, because the ultra-nationalistic politicians of the latter are going to veto the former's attempt to enter the EU. Only a Bulgar or a traitor would agree with that.

I want what's best for Macedonia, obviously, as I have a stake in it.

What stake? You're a Bulgar who pretends to be a Macedonian that travels frequently to Bulgaria and currently lives in Asia. LOL. Obviously you didn't think your little mental circus through before joining. The next time you're in Macedonia (in actuality and not in your imagination), go to any city and openly declare that the Macedonian language should forego its current international recognition and instead be rebranded as being the same as Bulgarian. How many people will be receptive to that? I'm guessing only Zaev, a few traitors and the clown that is staring back at you in the mirror. If you have evidence to the contrary, please share it.

Unlike you, Macedonia isn't just a place "I've visited many times." My whole family lives there. I appreciate your parents instilling a sense of Macedonian nationalism in you all the way in Australia or Canada or whatever, but it's time to stop being a child.

This discussion is not going to keep looping around in circles. Like I stated earlier, my relatives live there. I share their perspectives. Their perspectives are of more value than somebody pretending to be Macedonian. As for behaving like a child, I treat people how they want to be treated. You're behaving like a Bulgar nationalist (and a moron) so I am accommodating you with the appropriate language. You're not worth more effort.

[StefanTheGreat]

You joined this forum under the pretence of debating politics. Yet all you have done is argue on behalf of Bulgaria's political positions with respect to Macedonia. The only "pseudo-nationalist" in this discussion is yourself, who is trying to force a false Bulgar narrative on Macedonian history. You're that stupid that you believe a thin conciliatory veil conceals your deceit. It doesn't. You're not the first Bulgar to have come here pretending to be friendly with Macedonians while at the same time convincing them they should give up on everything their ancestors fought for in the past. People like you, who dedicate their time being destructive towards their neighbours, are a miserable species.

I have been there many times. I keep in touch with my relatives on a regular basis. I can't accept that their perspective means less than that of a Bulgar clown pretending to be a Macedonian on a Macedonian forum. The only reason why you have made an appearance at this point in time is because of the upcoming EU summit. You think by presenting a supposedly dissenting view in a placid manner it will convince others that it is commonly accepted by Macedonians. It isn't. Even most of the SDS supporters wouldn't agree with your suggestions about the language. You're not fooling any of the readers.

You've lived outside of Macedonia your whole life and thus have no right to lecture me on what I am and what I'm not. I'm also sure your fluency in Macedonian isn't as good as your English, which is why it's not surprising that you have no idea what languages are similar to it.

We have a disagreement on steps Macedonia should take as I'm a realist and you live in a fantasy, and so you accuse me of being a Bulgarian or a traitor. I'm sorry to spoil your little echo chamber. But instead of being triggered like those left wing lunatics on Twitter, try debating me instead. I want what's best for Macedonia, obviously, as I have a stake in it. Unlike you, Macedonia isn't just a place "I've visited many times." My whole family lives there. I appreciate your parents instilling a sense of Macedonian nationalism in you all the way in Australia or Canada or whatever, but it's time to stop being a child.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I joined this forum to debate politics with fellow Macedonians as I currently live in Asia and don't have to ability to do so in real life. But instead of having intelligent conversation, I have you responding to all of my posts with emotional projection, falsehood and pseudonationalism.

You joined this forum under the pretence of debating politics. Yet all you have done is argue on behalf of Bulgaria's political positions with respect to Macedonia. The only "pseudo-nationalist" in this discussion is yourself, who is trying to force a false Bulgar narrative on Macedonian history. You're that stupid that you believe a thin conciliatory veil conceals your deceit. It doesn't. You're not the first Bulgar to have come here pretending to be friendly with Macedonians while at the same time convincing them they should give up on everything their ancestors fought for in the past. People like you, who dedicate their time being destructive towards their neighbours, are a miserable species.

Macedonian is the only citizenship I have; it's where I was born and raised. I doubt you could say the same. You have all these opinions on what Macedonia is, and what they should and shouldn't do, and yet I bet you haven't lived there since you were 12.

I have been there many times. I keep in touch with my relatives on a regular basis. I can't accept that their perspective means less than that of a Bulgar clown pretending to be a Macedonian on a Macedonian forum. The only reason why you have made an appearance at this point in time is because of the upcoming EU summit. You think by presenting a supposedly dissenting view in a placid manner it will convince others that it is commonly accepted by Macedonians. It isn't. Even most of the SDS supporters wouldn't agree with your suggestions about the language. You're not fooling any of the readers.

[StefanTheGreat]

Blindly spewing nationalism you say?
Man you really are naive. There is nothing nationalistic about defending our Macedonian language, history, culture, ethnicity etc. it’s being patriotic which is different from being nationalistic
You know it’s people like you and with your mentality that has put Macedonia in the position that it finds itself today. No one has the right to negotiate who I am and my Macedonian culture, ethnicity, language and history.

I agree with you. However, the reality is that it currently is being negotiated, and we need to be smart about it, or we will lose everything.

Oh, I get it now. Let's pretend Macedonian isn't already an internationally recognised language, then suggest that it is better to be classified as a Bulgarian language instead of a Bulgarian dialect. That way we win. Lol. You're an idiot.

Forget chess. Your incapable of checkers.

Well done. On a Macedonian forum where the purpose is to promote the Macedonian perspective on Macedonia, you've managed to spew up all of the Bulgar propaganda talking points and argue on behalf of their position regarding Macedonia's accession into the EU all at once. We could read the same rubbish on any Bulgar news portal rather than giving it a platform here. Make your next reply a special one. You know what comes next.

Macedonia currently finds itself in a difficult situation. The things that occur in the months to come will define the future of the state for decades. I joined this forum to debate politics with fellow Macedonians as I currently live in Asia and don't have to ability to do so in real life. But instead of having intelligent conversation, I have you responding to all of my posts with emotional projection, falsehood and pseudonationalism. I'd appreciate it if you'd quit the personal attacks and stick to the topic at hand, because you know nothing about me and quite frankly are making Macedonians look bad. Macedonian is the only citizenship I have; it's where I was born and raised. I doubt you could say the same. You have all these opinions on what Macedonia is, and what they should and shouldn't do, and yet I bet you haven't lived there since you were 12, if ever.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Saying the two languages are the same, but getting Bulgaria to recognize it as a language, is the better option for us. If this were to happen, the moment we start EU negotiations, our language would be legitimized.

Oh, I get it now. Let's pretend Macedonian isn't already an internationally recognised language, then suggest that it is better to be classified as a Bulgarian language instead of a Bulgarian dialect. That way we win. Lol. You're an idiot.

This is a game of chess.

Forget chess. You're incapable of checkers.

They see Macedonian as a dialect of Bulgarian.......Internationally, it would be a Bulgarian dialect that was altered by the Yugoslav authorities.......This will be cemented once Zaev, as he promised, opens the vaults to expose Yugoslav anti-Bulgarian brutality.......I don't see Bulgaria budging on their veto considering the fact that 80% of them want it to continue until we say that our language is Bulgarian and that our nation's history starts in 1945, previously being Bulgaria.....

Well done. On a Macedonian forum where the purpose is to promote the Macedonian perspective on Macedonia, you've managed to spew up all of the Bulgar propaganda talking points and argue on behalf of their position regarding Macedonia's accession into the EU all at once. We could read the same rubbish on any Bulgar news portal rather than giving it a platform here. Make your next reply a special one. You know what comes next.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Most of our population is outside the country.

Provide the statistical data to validate that assertion.

We don't have a future as a country, what language exactly is there to protect?

What language? It's called Macedonian. It was spoken long before the modern state was established. It will continue to be spoken even if the state ceased to exist.

Bulgarian and Macedonian is extremely similar. I promise you that Serbian, and especially Croatian are not nearly as close.

Don't create strawman arguments. I never said Croatian and Serbian are closer to Macedonian, I said they are closer to each other than Macedonian and Bulgarian are to each other.

I'm not even from a border region and still understand it near perfect. I say this not because I am anti-Macedonian, but to help you realize what we are up against.

There's no need to repeat your anecdote. You understand Bulgarian "near perfect" because you're a Bulgar (or if you're dubious story is to be accepted, you've spent time in Bulgaria). A bit late to alter that tale with reference to which region you supposedly come from. Most of my family comes from the Bitola region. They speak both the local dialect and literary Macedonian, which are almost the same. They struggle to understand Bulgars on TV yapping in their Russianised eastern literary variety. That is an objective fact. A 10 year old child in Macedonia would be able to understand nearly everything if they hear a speech from a politician in Macedonia. You're suggesting that the same child would understand that fat Bulgar who was your president up until recently just as easily, which is a blatant lie.

If we can get Bulgaria to accept Macedonian as an international language, that is a win for us, plain and simple.

Did you miss the part about Macedonian already being an internationally recognised language that is taught around the world? Why is it so important to you that Bulgaria accept Macedonian as a language? For somebody that pretends to love Macedonia, you seem to enjoy arguing on behalf of the Bulgar position.

Once more, the alternative is "The Language of North Macedonia as per the Constitution."

According to who?

Blind nationalism solves nothing; in fact it hurts us!

Who is the blind nationalist, Macedonians who only seek acknowledgement of reality or Bulgars who seek to suppress reality? We know which side you're on.

This needs to be understood by people that supposedly love our homeland. Brother, understand, the love of Macedonia runs through my veins, but we need to be smart.

Spare me the insincere effort at endearment. Those who love Macedonia struggle on her behalf. They don't accept her subservience to others, as you do.

There is no serious Macedonian presence in Bulgaria, that I can absolutely promise you.

Wrap it in whatever adjective makes you sleep better at night. The fact is, there is a Macedonian presence in Bulgaria and if they weren't serious they wouldn't have taken that miserable country to court so many times. The only people who denigrate their existence are Bulgar nationalists, like yourself.

This is the belief of 100% of Bulgarians, genuinely. They don't hate us, they see us as confused and brainwashed.

Yes, you told us. We know they're delusional. Yet, you keep telling us. Why do you keep telling us?

Please do not tell me that I am not "self-respecting" and that I am spitting on my ancestors' memory, people that have died for this country.

I said no self-respecting Macedonian would say what you did. You're not Macedonian so it doesn't apply to you.

[Spirit]

The point is that Bulgaria refuses to allow Macedonian to become an official language of the EU. They see Macedonian as a dialect of Bulgarian, and thus want to see it listed in all EU documents with an asterisk beside it stating that it is the Macedonian language, but only as per the constitution of Macedonia.

In essence, this relegates our language to a dialect that is only recognized within the borders of our country. Internationally, it would be a Bulgarian dialect that was altered by the Yugoslav authorities to distance the two peoples. This will be cemented once Zaev, as he promised, opens the vaults to expose Yugoslav anti-Bulgarian brutality. Saying the two languages are the same, but getting Bulgaria to recognize it as a language, is the better option for us. If this were to happen, the moment we start EU negotiations, our language would be legitimized.

If we could get away with this it would be a success for us, as I don't see Bulgaria budging on their veto considering the fact that 80% of them want it to continue until we say that our language is Bulgarian and that our nation's history starts in 1945, previously being Bulgaria.

This is a game of chess. Blindly spewing nationalism hurts us.

Blindly spewing nationalism you say?
Man you really are naive. There is nothing nationalistic about defending our Macedonian language, history, culture, ethnicity etc. it’s being patriotic which is different from being nationalistic
You know it’s people like you and with your mentality that has put Macedonia in the position that it finds itself today. No one has the right to negotiate who I am and my Macedonian culture, ethnicity, language and history.

[StefanTheGreat]

Can you please show where in the Prespa agreement and Constitution that it states "The Language of North Macedonia".

The point is that Bulgaria refuses to allow Macedonian to become an official language of the EU. They see Macedonian as a dialect of Bulgarian, and thus want to see it listed in all EU documents with an asterisk beside it stating that it is the Macedonian language, but only as per the constitution of Macedonia.

In essence, this relegates our language to a dialect that is only recognized within the borders of our country. Internationally, it would be a Bulgarian dialect that was altered by the Yugoslav authorities to distance the two peoples. This will be cemented once Zaev, as he promised, opens the vaults to expose Yugoslav anti-Bulgarian brutality. Saying the two languages are the same, but getting Bulgaria to recognize it as a language, is the better option for us. If this were to happen, the moment we start EU negotiations, our language would be legitimized.

If we could get away with this it would be a success for us, as I don't see Bulgaria budging on their veto considering the fact that 80% of them want it to continue until we say that our language is Bulgarian and that our nation's history starts in 1945, previously being Bulgaria.

This is a game of chess. Blindly spewing nationalism hurts us.