Vodenka and the AMHRC/MHRMI

[maslinka]

We use photocopies of books the teacher has. Our friend G.Stojanov gave me excellent advise and I downloaded from internet some macedonian proverbs, songs, etc. and I printed them.
Our teacher does not speak greek. All classes are in Macedonian. Our students realised by themselves that Voden dialect they speak is almost the same with the official language of the Republic. They are not pushed to change their way of speaking the language, but they get to know how to write and read it, in Cyrillic. The funny thing is that if there is a world they to not understand, the teacher says the word in english to me and I translate it to them in greek, but this happens very seldom. I was very impressed when one of the "students" (on his late 40ties), after he finished reading loud a small story in Macedonian, he told me: "you know something? I NEVER thought I could do this! Read in my mother tongue!"
In the frame of our activities there are in project some excursions. My idea is to visit also the cultural associations of Macedonian minorities living in almost all the countries of the Balcans (Serbia, Romani, Croatia, Slovenia, etc).

Vodenka, you know when you remain focused on the issues that matter, you present a very powerful and attractive proposition.
Your actions are just wonderful and I think that many people on this forum are proud of you and your achievements.

However, your fault of course is your blinded criticism of Vino. No matter what personal issues you have, or whatever other issue you have, you must keep that crap to yourself. It doesn't look good and undermines the great objective work you do.

We are all here to support you in our collective cause. Keep focused and remain positive on the right issues, that is your education program.
If you do that everyone will support you.

[Prolet]

Pavel, Spolaj Ti for the positive comments

Vodenka, Keep it up this is fantastic to see.

[Rogi]

I think we are beyond that now and let's not go back to it.

I'd like to know more about the language classes and I'd like us to discuss ideas and creative ways that we may be of assistance to the program.

I think an excursion to the Republic of Macedonia, perhaps financed by the Macedonian Government, if not the Diaspora, would be a great exercise for strengthening the relations between Macedonians from the Aegean part of Macedonia and the Republic of Macedonia.

Or perhaps, encouraging the students to get involved in writing Macedonian poetry and have them submit their poems to the Struga Poetry Evenings festival (which is Internationally renowned) and so on.

[vodenka]

However, your fault of course is your blinded criticism of Vino. No matter what personal issues you have, or whatever other issue you have, you must keep that crap to yourself. It doesn't look good and undermines the great objective work you do.

LETTER TO THE MEMBER OF THE POLITICAL SECRETARIAT OF VINOZHITO Mr. IOANNOU DIMITRI

The reason I address you is because I received two phone calls from Diaspora Macedonians in Canada and America.

They sought to learn if it is true, as they were informed, that Vinozhito organizes seminars for Macedonians language, if it is permitted to us to make use of the “office of Voden" and if we collaborate with the Vinozhito Prefecture Committee of Voden.

When I told them that the leadership of Vinozhito has no involvement in the organization of seminars, that "the Voden office" not only does not function, but even the party Prefecture Committee of Voden , which is supposed to have created the foundation "Krste Misirkov, does not exist, that Vinozhito not only does not help those who try to do something in Pella with no financial support, but is trying in every way to “sabotage” them, they were surprised. They showed suspicious of me, thinking that I am not saying the truth to them because of rivalry toward the party. Fortunately they communicated with others and got convinced about what is the reality here.

From all this debate I understood that they have a completely misleading picture of the situation of the movement here in Macedonia. So, although I had decided not to deal with the problem, I now feel obliged to do so, because if I will keep silent I will be accomplice

I was told that next month you plan to go to Australia, where obviously you will advertise the "activities" of your group and will seek financial support for them. You starred in the promotional spots for the "office of Voden“, as well as in other related activities and thus you are the most right person. In these last years, you are the protagonist in the “entrepreneurship” of deceiving our people in R. of Macedonia and the Diaspora.

If you have even a trace of conscience and shame in your hart, you have an obligation when you tour in Australia to help our Diaspora to come out of this.deception. To explain that the party has taken a downhill course without an end. That supporters, voters and party members instead of increasing due of your "activities", they are constantly decreasing. The negative election results of the party, not only have disappointed the few remaining supporters, but they are used against us by our opponents as convincing and main argument in international organizations, international forums and the media. Our Diaspora involved with the financial assistance in this project are entitled to know why their help became boomerang against us and strengthened the arguments of our opponents. They have a right to know that kind of events like “opening offices”, conferences, participation in workshops, etc., are done to create “commercials” spots that will be used to confuse our Diaspora and to cover the provocative role of your group.

You have to stop giving the responsibility for your failure on the war against you by your opponents. You have spoiled the character of the party and not your opponents. Did your opponents change the party in something that does neither inspire, nor even has the trust of Macedonians? Did your opponents pulled out of the way the most responsible and active members of the party? Unless you mean that your opponents put infiltrations into the party or “bought” some people who have made this transformation in the party which led to a pre-designed failure of policies and actions. In this case you should have seen who played this role and isolate them, rather than wait until you all got isolated by our people.

If you continue this criminal activity of deceiving our Diaspora, and you will not take over your responsibilities to get them out of this error, you will remain an accomplice in a national crime of historic proportions and as such you will be addressed.

Trajan Passois 18/02/2010


__________________________________________________
The above letter was sent by Passois to the Vinozhito office in Lerin by e-mail on 18/02/2010, to be forwarded to Ioannou. An sms on the mobile phone of Ioannou has been sent to inform him about the letter addressed to him.
Up today Trajan Passois did not have any reaction by the party or Ioannou himself..
Anybody interested to know more, I can give by pm, Passois e-mail and phone number.
I think all Macedonians should have the possibility to speak out even for criticism, that is why I posted the letter.
Trajan does not speak or understand english but he speaks his mother tongue which is Macedonian. I received this letter yesterday and I translated for him.

[vodenka]

I think we are beyond that now and let's not go back to it.

I'd like to know more about the language classes and I'd like us to discuss ideas and creative ways that we may be of assistance to the program.

I think an excursion to the Republic of Macedonia, perhaps financed by the Macedonian Government, if not the Diaspora, would be a great exercise for strengthening the relations between Macedonians from the Aegean part of Macedonia and the Republic of Macedonia.

Or perhaps, encouraging the students to get involved in writing Macedonian poetry and have them submit their poems to the Struga Poetry Evenings festival (which is Internationally renowned) and so on.

All the above is right. We have to do everything step by step because it is very important to have people to follow. If our group can count on the Diaspora support, we can be very propositive to our people in Egejska: some projects can meet favourable impact some other may not. As everything we want to do is for the people, we have to see what people is accepting and how they see the initiative. For each of our initiatives there will be always a negative propaganda (and some times, I am sorry to say that, this comes by Macedonians). If we get to make Egejci trust us, we will be able to do a lot in the direction of awakening their macedonian consiusness and the will to save our cultural heritage as a nation.
One thing that makes us optimistic about our aim is that lately even the grkmani villages are starting to have parties with macedonian music and SONGS in macedonian! They still declare greek, but some years ago they would NEVER go to a party where "skopiani" "filo-skopiani"(the way they use to call the ethnic Macedonians in Egjska) go!

[Risto the Great]

Vodenka, I am really concerned with this last post.
The letter looks very personal, are you sure it is available for public viewing?

If this is indeed available for public viewing, then I think some points should be clarified. Perhaps you can translate Mr Passios' reasons. Or he could write them here in Macedonian.

He makes the suggestion that some people were "bought" and that they have developed policies within Vinozito that led to a pre-designed failure. These are very powerful statements and have a legal aspect that does not thrill me to be honest. Irrespective of that, by placing a letter like that in public, these themes should be addressed and are worthy of a right of reply.

- Who are the infiltrators you speak of and with what do you base your reasons?
- Who has been "bought" and what proof do you have?
- What actions or policies were instigated that guaranteed failure?

These require careful analysis and, if your heart is in the right place, I hope you will give these a great deal of thought before you respond.

It is obvious you don't like Vinozito. This thread is about establishing a purposeful relationship with the AMHRC/MHRMI and your NGO. How can we be positive and move forward by using the excellent skills of all of these organisations? I understand the AMHRC have again made an offer of help and they look very willing to do this with no strings attached. You must understand they are very intelligent and capable people who are a valuable asset to any Macedonian organisation. I believe they would not be supportive of Vinozito if there was any truth to the accusations Mr Passios made.

I am the first person to think that the needs of the Diaspora are very different to the Macedonians in Greece. But for there to be such a difference in objectives that you feel the need to broadcast such statements is quite scary.

Please realise that in Australia we have Macedonian cultural organisations who think they are doing a much more important job than the more political Macedonian organisations (and vice versa). So your problem is not isolated and can be understood as more of a misunderstanding than anything else.

But more importantly, how do we be more positive, more constructive and contribute more?

[vodenka]

I have been accused to be against Vinozhito for some personal reason, which is not true. The situation is very different from what is presented to the Diaspora. Passois wrote his letter in an attempt to make some people react to this very bad situation for Egejci Vinozhito created. He has no personal gain in denouncing Vinozhito for their lies to you (Vinozhito does not care a bit if we know they are lying but they do not want the Diaspora to realize that). What Passois wrote is not new to the Egejci and it is been on the internet before, with no reaction by Vinozhito part.
The Diaspora has to listen to all Macedonians’ voices and after it can decide what is best to do. We did not say you should not help Vinozhito but the Diaspora and in general the Macedonians everywhere outside Egejska should know why some things are not going where they should. If there are Macedonians in Diaspora that have their doubts, they should be able to find answers to their questions. If Diaspora Macedonians are happy with the results Vinozhito brought to our cause, than they have just to ignore our denunciations.
We all are still waiting a serious and official response by Vinozhito about the lies they say about the Voden office, the Krste Misirkov foundation, the language classes, etc.
When we have behavior like the above by some party members all the time, we can get very suspicious.
The letter was written by Passois and is posted with his permission.

[Bratot]

Why don't you simply answer the questions asked by Risto?

Here publicly or on pm to Risto, you don't have to replay to me but stop avoiding what we asked several times already.

[Jankovska]

I am not liking this to be honest. Until someone posts proof of lies and tricks within Vinozito we should not allow any bitching to be made public. If there is proof than we can discus. For now the bitching should stop.

[vodenka]

I live in Voden and I know what is happening in my town with Vinozhito. We expect answers from them several years now. If they will not answer, we can think and suspect anything. We would like to know why they keep lying. They do not need to answer on this forum. They know who Passois is and were they can find him. We are not talking about personal rivalry here, but the actions and lies of Vinozhito leadership are of great damage to us, as Macedonians, like Passois writes in his letters.
The proof to Passois denounciations is the behavior and doings of Vinozhito (and their silence).

[vodenka]

Why don't you simply answer the questions asked by Risto?

Here publicly or on pm to Risto, you don't have to replay to me but stop avoiding what we asked several times already.

I also have some questions toward Vinozhito and all of you that are so sure that evering their leadership is saying is true:
1) Does the Voden office work and is it open (what days and hours and who is the responsible there who we may find and have a chat)?
2) The names of the party Pella prefecture commetee members
3) who is the teacher for the language classes in Solun (where Vinozhito claims its "branches" organized the classes?
4) Do the Macedonians attending the Solun classes know that Vinozhito claims the organizing of the classes?
5) Does the foundation Krste Misirkov exist or not (I mean does it have a legal status to function or will be another case for international courts like the Home of Macedonian Culture that after so many years and court victory does still not exist. What is the point of winning in international courts but on the ground to be in the same situation exactly like 30 years ago?)

[Risto the Great]

Vodenka, I am disappointed with your response(s).
If you are seriously hoping for change, then you would have given much more thought to the questions I marked in bold. If you are just attacking Vinozito simply for the benefit of your NGO, then it is not the kind of positive approach I am hoping to see coming from Macedonians in Greece.

I do not think you are a Greek spy but you should know that your actions could be understood in this way. By relaying Mr Passios' letter in this fashion, you are introducing more doubt about the only organisation that politically represents Macedonians in Greece. You did not clarify a single point. I will be honest, I don't care whether an office is open somewhere or not. I don't care whether a foundation is registered or not. Quite frankly, it really looks like you have taken the language classes to a new level and they will only improve. I would personally prefer you run with this. However, I do care if there is infiltration, lies and policies designed for failure. And you and Mr Passios have not even bothered to clarify the allegations made.

To the casual reader, this might look like the UMD bashing that has gone on here for a while. But we have been monitoring the actions of the UMD closely and started out with enthusiasm and have now reached utter frustration based on public actions and statements. We have tried to interpret their policies, statements and actions and have made our conclusions. If you want to keep making statements about Vinozito, we need far more analysis from you instead of simple accusations.

Here is some food for thought. I understand there will be a Macedonian focused newspaper soon. Vinozito will be steering this if my information is correct. If you are really concerned about more Macedonians connecting with their ancestral language of Macedonian, would you seek to promote your courses in this newspaper?

my new motto:
Positive, constructive, your contribution!

[Grotius]

Vodenka,

What are you doing?? I hope you put just as much energy in fighting your Greek Government as you do attacking the Macedonian organisation Vinozito. You are fast losing support with this nonsense. People are generally reluctant to offer support to negative, whining and whinging groups. It is frankly, unattractive. Keep it positive or simply just shut up.

[Bratot]

I live in Voden and I know what is happening in my town with Vinozhito. We expect answers from them several years now. If they will not answer, we can think and suspect anything.

That's exactly what you are doing in here.

Purposely avoiding to answer on our questions is leaving to us a pretty big doubt in you and suspect your intentions.

You have been given too much time and space so far and showed basically nothing, nada, zero, niente, nicht....

[Pavel]

vodenka, vinozhito does not claim they are organising language classes in solun. but you told everyone here that some vinozhito people in solun are participating. you just like to cause trouble.