Vodenka and the AMHRC/MHRMI

[Risto the Great]

Hi Vodenka,
We have not spoken for a while. I have expressed my disappointment to you with Vinozito in the past and their failure to capture the imagination and patriotism of the many Macedonians in Greece today. I have spoken with the AMHRC in relation to the same matter in recent times as well.

You made the following points in some of your recent posts:

Some years ago I contacted all the Macedonian organizations I knew (not all of them, of course), presenting myself. I never got an answer from MHRMI and AHRMC, not even a "thank you for contactig us" e-mail.
Now, on this forum I see that I get only negative approach and no interest about my activism, wich did not start yesterday or last year.
I have the support of some organizations in the Diaspora and in the Republic. Do you really believe that I am all alone on this?
There is really no problem about you being nagative to me. I will continue to do what I think is right, as before. I am glad that finally you realized that in Egejska there is not only Vinozhito activists but also other people who struggle for our human rights and recognition as Macedonians. We are new as organization, but at least we are moving on, with or without your support, which you are not oblige to offer if you do not agree with us or me and our way of doing things.

The web site of our organization is only in greek for a very simple reason: as the greek propaganda already is writing everywhere that our organization's aim is only to get to the Diaspora dollars if we put the site in both english and macedonian, our people will be very suspicious about us. Believe it or not, Egejci are very disappointed by macedonian organizations in Greece (for past mistakes) that now they do not believe easily in organizing themselves. Of course, when our people get to trust us, we will translate our site in both languages. We had to start this way.
The macedonian blogs are in greek because are also for greeks to read.
I proposed to some bloggers to create also a macedonian forum where some "conversations" could be in macedonian, but they were negative.

I am a little confused about this. The first post suggested you contacted many organisations about this matter. The second post suggests you do not want to look like this is about Diaspora Dollars.

I have spoken to the AMHRC today and can confirm that they are more than willing to to maintain the offer of support and friendship and that this does not involve any need on your part to have ties with Vinozhito. I believe the offer of support had been made previously (via MHRMI) and was not necessarily only financial but also in many other ways as well. I think support from such capable Macedonian organisations like the AMHRC/MHRMI can only help you achieve some more remarkable things with your Macedonian language and culture programs in Greece. Would you insist on not talking to them?

This is something that interests the MTO very strongly and we are more than happy to contribute and even facilitate a greater Macedonian cultural initiative in Belomorska Makedonija.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Indeed, I am looking forward to this discussion.

[Prolet]

An Excellent initiative Risto, i applaud your efforts.

We should be building bridges, not burning them.

Well Done and Keep Up The Good Work

[Jankovska]

An Excellent initiative Risto, i applaud your efforts.

We should be building bridges, not burning them.

Well Done and Keep Up The Good Work

I agree 100%. Great work Risto

[Daskalot]

This is a great initiative, building bridges only make us stronger.

[vodenka]

I have no problem in collaborating with other organizations, because this is not a personal matter or about whom I may like or dislike. I do not want to collaborate with organization like Vinozhito because people do not want to. Each of us has its ways in activism and the results are those that count. If we have good results and are accepted by the people we are successful but if we have not those good results, it cannot be people’s fault: it is us who are doing something wrong.
First of all I must tell you that activism cannot limit itself in politics. Of, course, from a point of view all actions are in some way political, too, but in our case political groups are not succeeding to connect with our people (the reasons I think I explained too many times, already, and this is in my opinion why we have no good results, as ethnic group in Egejska). When I first contacted the Diaspora organizations 4 years ago, I was not organized in any associations or organizations but I was completely alone on this. The only help I had it was from some friends of mine who gave me some documented information about the situation of the Macedonians in Egejska (Vinozhito had exactly the same information but their reaction was always negative and never used in our favor these documents). If someone is interested in details, can write me a pm.
The activities that must be supported are of many kinds. For instance, it is 2 years now that we struggle to get documents for someone to get a birth certificate of a person who was deprived of it after the greek civil war. We are in a very good point as we have an official answer by the greek Ombudsman and we can use this for a legal action in a Court (greek or international). We have to do something to pressure the greek government to change the law that does not allow to the Egejci to get back their greek citizenship (and property). If the law does nor change, it does not matter how many protest letters we may send, it will be useless. But if we gain a legal case, Greece will be obliged to abide.
An other field we can do something is to help people like writers, musicians, any other artists in Egejska, who, by their work, can help the Macedonian cause. I cannot be more specific on the forum but there are several examples I have.
Of course all these activities need money and people willing to work hard for them. We cannot expect that the few people that are in our association to take all the burden (organizational and financial). I hope that more organizations in Egejska may do some work, too. My opinion is that a political party has to be a political party, a cultural association or foundation has to be that and a newspaper has to be a newspaper; it is not possible for one organization to concentrate everything and get a kind of monopoly of few activists, on every field, excluding others.
My idea is that our association may work like the intermediary between the Diaspora and the people who needs help to promote our Macedonian cause. We could say, for instance: we have this guy who wrote a book and we present to you in the Diaspora; is somebody or some organization willing to help him, even directly, to finance or sponsor his work?
I think this could be a way where all Macedonians, who have something to offer, can be helpful for our cause which is to let the whole world know that we do exist and we are Macedonians. We have to stop being known only because of the name issue of the Republic of Macedonia and Greece, but we have to present ourselves to the whole world for our qualities and good characteristics as Macedonian nation.

[Silver]

Vodenka, I have read on another forum where you make claims about members of Vinozhito who have used diaspora money to finance personal lifestyle such as driving expensive cars, large houses and living the highlife etc. Can you please substantiate your claims here and prove to the readers that they are in fact true?

Your opinions of Vinozhito are very negative, but can you tell us what you think about diaspora organizations like AMHRC and MHRMI who support Vinozhito financially? Is this a mistake in your opinion and a waste of resources? If so, how can those monies be more useful to the Macedonian cause?

[vodenka]

Vodenka, I have read on another forum where you make claims about members of Vinozhito who have used diaspora money to finance personal lifestyle such as driving expensive cars, large houses and living the highlife etc. Can you please substantiate your claims here and prove to the readers that they are in fact true?

Your opinions of Vinozhito are very negative, but can you tell us what you think about diaspora organizations like AMHRC and MHRMI who support Vinozhito financially? Is this a mistake in your opinion and a waste of resources? If so, how can those monies be more useful to the Macedonian cause?

Maybe you do not remember very well about me claiming that Vinozhito members are using diaspora money to finance their own lifestyle. I never said anything not even close to that. I said that I have a problem about some money that should have been spent to buy a radio station and I, as Vinozhito member (and others, of course), never got a satisfactory answer about what happened to that money. I also think (my personal opinion) that some money could have been spent in a better ways but as I never was in the Political Secretariat, I am neither responsible for the decisions taken nor my opinion had any importance.

I think that the Diaspora has to be very careful about where and to whom gives money. When some project has to be financed, it must have good probability of success and not just "take the money and do what you can". There are ways to control if a project can be carried out or not. It is like when you want to invest in a business (when we talk about large amounts of money). If it is for small amounts, I do not think there should be a problem. Each project should be financed separetely. The Diaspora should have a way (and the technology today gives us the means) to control every euro how it is spent. The donors have the right to know exactly where their money goes and what impact had the project financed by them to our people.

[Pavel]

I think it would be sensible for Vodenka not to talk about Vinozhito here. There is no need to bring up these negative things again. Vodenka is not part of Vinozhito anymore. Like I said in the other thread, it would be good for Vodenka to promote her own work and focus on her own activities. She is doing very good work with the language classes.

Vodenka, does your answer mean that you are prepared to cooperate with MHRMI/AMHRC?

[vodenka]

I think it would be sensible for Vodenka not to talk about Vinozhito here. There is no need to bring up these negative things again. Vodenka is not part of Vinozhito anymore. Like I said in the other thread, it would be good for Vodenka to promote her own work and focus on her own activities. She is doing very good work with the language classes.

Vodenka, does your answer mean that you are prepared to cooperate with MHRMI/AMHRC?

Well, somebody asked some questions and I answered.

I am ready to collaborate with anybody but only as Educative and Cultural Movement of Voden.

[Pavel]

That is very good news Vodenka.

[Silver]

Maybe you do not remember very well about me claiming that Vinozhito members are using diaspora money to finance their own lifestyle. I never said anything not even close to that. I said that I have a problem about some money that should have been spent to buy a radio station and I, as Vinozhito member (and others, of course), never got a satisfactory answer about what happened to that money. I also think (my personal opinion) that some money could have been spent in a better ways but as I never was in the Political Secretariat, I am neither responsible for the decisions taken nor my opinion had any importance.

I think that the Diaspora has to be very careful about where and to whom gives money. When some project has to be financed, it must have good probability of success and not just "take the money and do what you can". There are ways to control if a project can be carried out or not. It is like when you want to invest in a business (when we talk about large amounts of money). If it is for small amounts, I do not think there should be a problem. Each project should be financed separetely. The Diaspora should have a way (and the technology today gives us the means) to control every euro how it is spent. The donors have the right to know exactly where their money goes and what impact had the project financed by them to our people.

I know what I read Vodenka, but ok since you deny and I can't prove anything than I'll just stop right here. Having said that it will be interesting indeed to see how well you can work with others and be the most transparent organization of them all so to speak. We know you support UMD, so that's one group but please in the future should you decide to criticize anyone else who works for the cause and not just sitting in front of a computer please back up what you say with facts or evidence. Otherwise, you serve no useful purpose except to divide and confuse people.

And by the way what have you achieved as far as the Macedonian classes go? Have you anything to show of your accomplishments?

[TrueMacedonian]

Vodenka I am glad to see you here and I am happy that there will be co-operation between the organizations.

[Bratot]

Ja ne i vervam na momava ama aj da ne gresam dusa.

[Prolet]

Brat, Da vidime pa ke ocenime, sega za sega dobro ide i samata si kaza deka nema namera da se mesha vo politikata na Vinozito.

Silver, Why are you so skeptical?? Vodenka knows Vinozito inside out, she is certainly qualified to talk about Vinozito however its best to only concentrate on the Language Program and thats the best thing for everyone right now. We dont need anymore divisions especially in Egejska Makedonija where its so tense right now.