Violence in the USA

[Soldier of Macedon]

Re centering means when the political pendulum swings too far in one direction you need it to swing the other way to bring things back to some kind of middle.

How has the pendulum of politics swung so far to the right during the Trump era that it needs re-centering?

You are kidding yourselves if you believe that only the left plays identity politics, or that right wing friendly media isn't hysterical.

Do some people on the right play identity politics? Sure, they're called the far right. They're a fringe group who barely have a voice and are disavowed by most conservatives. Most of those who play identity politics on the left aren't disavowed and are given a regular platform. As for "liberal" media, you are aware that, aside from Fox News and some internet-based media, almost all other media outlets, mainstream or otherwise, are "liberal" by definition, right? I haven't suggested that "liberal" media are the sole problem, but they are one of the main problems.

I think their is a common assumption that because I hate Trump's character that I have to hold a bias on everything he does.

One minute later...…...

I reject this idea that we can have a president that is the antithesis of decency and that's okay if he can deliver something politically that we want.

Ok.

The economy was growing at a fast clip before he came into office, and at best he can claim to have had a marginal impact.....His wall, there is no wall. They spent tons of money to build small sections that people cut through within days. Great campaign slogan, stupid idea that doesn't solve a damn thing....Child separation policy at the border was inhumane....Hurricane response was botched thousands died in Puerto Rico.

Irrespective of the timeline, things go good, credit Obama. Things go bad, blame Trump. Meanwhile, Trump's economic policies resulted in record low unemployment for minorities and record high DJIA. Go figure. Progress on the wall has been repeatedly halted by Democrats. A properly developed wall is a method of deterrence. Supplemented by adequate monitoring and it will be more effective than what is currently in place. Do you have a less stupid idea or are you for open borders? Was it inhumane when Obama, labelled as the "deporter-in-chief", separated children and deported 2.5 million people, which is more than every single US president of the 20th century combined? And are you suggesting that thousands died because of Trump's supposed inaction as opposed to the effects of the hurricane itself?

Lick Kim's ass in North Korea and North Korea still did what they wanted....Let the Saudi's get a free pass on beheading a journalist.....Bombed Syria.

Are the North Koreans shooting missiles or threatening the south with the same frequency they were during the Obama era? Is it his responsibility to intervene in an internal Saudi matter? I agree that the murder of Khashoggi was horrible, but both republicans and democrats have turned a blind eye to Saudi activities in the past. A little more closer to home, surely you haven't forgotten how Obama vetoed the bill to allow the families on 9/11 victims to sue the Saudis? Is the life of a Saudi journalist more worthy of concern than 3,000 of your fellow citizens? As for Syria, let's not throw stones in glass houses, because Obama, Clinton and co. are responsible for the debacle that is Syria. Trump wanted to scale back the U.S. military presence, but the establishment Democrats (and republicans) and leftist media were begging him to bomb away.

Didn't respond to the Corona virus adequately and ended up with the worst outbreak in the world in one of the wealthiest countries in the world. If anyone else were in office I would point out the very say things.

What should he have done differently? Do Fredo's brother and De Blasio bear any responsibility? When Pelosi and others were encouraging people to go out and mingle, was that irresponsible? When Trump called for a travel ban from China in response to the virus and was labelled a racist by Democrats, were they irresponsible? As for being the worst outbreak in the world, you should check the statistics based on population and percentage.

Its hard to not see the parallels with Macedonia. Don't we criticize Macedonians for being transactional instead of idealist? They vote for candidates in order to get something. Who cares if they are corrupt, if they lie and steal. If you voted for Zaev to get into the EU, then he has done is best to deliver that.

You're being intellectually dishonest. Everybody votes in the hopes of getting something, perhaps not always based on personal gain, but at the very least on policies that align with their views. You should be looking at what they're voting for.

Held the bible upside down LMAO, he held it like a man holding a baby, he didn't know what to do with it, you can't make it up.

Trump isn't a devout Christian. But holding up the Bible in front of a church that was targeted by rioters is appropriate. Perhaps your future progressive president can hold up a Quran, the Communist Manifesto and the Green New Deal just to ensure your appetite for inclusion is satisfied.

Those that have a hard on for conservatism will be sorely disappointed when in the long term they realize that the Trump brand actually ended up hurting conservatism.

Big statement. Lacking substance. How will it end up hurting conservatism?

I reject that the #1 priority is the cops safety.

You're a sensible cop who responds to an active shooter situation at a property, but you haven't yet been able to ascertain the specifics of the threat prior to entry. You approach the breach point cautiously. In such a tense moment of heightened alertness, your thoughts momentarily fall back to your wife at home who just gave birth to a son a few weeks ago. Suddenly you realise your life is at serious risk. For the promise of a 60K a year salary, one thing goes wrong and your family never sees you alive again. Your wife a widow, your son fatherless. Without negating the fact that there may be some innocent people at the property and that preservation of life is paramount, whose life is the #1 priority? The problem with you leftists is that too often you think in abstract terms rather than being grounded in reality. Are there cops who are maggots that deserve to be removed from the force? Absolutely. But don't generalise, instead, protest and do what needs to be done to get rid of those people. Is it right to protest with signs that say "ACAB" (All Cops Are Bastards), "Fuck The Police", "Only Good Cops Are Dead Cops", etc.? Well, those that harbour such sentiments can ponder that, should they ever be unfortunate enough to be an innocent victim of a violent crime.

The criminal justice system is a revolving door for poverty, drug abuse, and mental disorder.

Do poor people, junkies and mentally-ill individuals commit crimes? Should they be treated differently by the criminal justice system if they do? I think each case should be judged on its own merit, determining factors and circumstances. But I would be interested to obtain a greater insight into your thoughts about criminal justice reform and how it can cease being a revolving door.

[Phoenix]

...If given the choice between Trump and Biden, I will vote for Biden, not because he great and I love everything about him, but because that is the choice I am faced with, the lesser of to evils...

Wow...

In a democracy you also have the choice not to vote at all.
In Australia, unlike the USA and in many other democracies around the world we have compulsory voting, refusing to vote means getting fined ($)...I would wear that cost (and I have previously) if I thought no candidate met my expectations, I would never take the "lesser of two evils" approach to legitimising a political party or ideology that I didn't believe in.

Sounds awfully close to the same rationale used to vote-in SDSM...and how did that work out ?...
In fact you did say here that maybe SDSM deserved a chance way back...

If you can't see how the Left operates after countless examples and history from all over the world, the way the Left media spins the news daily then a vote for Biden may actually seem like a brilliant, lucid idea that is devoid of any momentary lapse of reason.

The most basic and succinct description that I have ever read of the differences between the Right and the Left is thus:

The Right tries to change/improve the individual in order to improve society.
The Left tries to make wholesale changes to society in order to change/improve the individual.
It's an interesting perspective when viewed from the prism that is Macedonia today...or where the USA will possibly be tomorrow...

Putting aside any allegations of Trump Derangement Syndrome against you for the time being...good luck with the 'defund the police' movement and other woke enlightenment gems...

[Gocka]

I will try and answer everyone broadly.

Re centering means when the political pendulum swings too far in one direction you need it to swing the other way to bring things back to some kind of middle.

I think there is just as much hysteria on the right about the left as there is on the left about Trump. Both sides are taking the others statements and positions and twisting them into this us vs them narrative. You are kidding yourselves if you believe that only the left plays identity politics, or that right wing friendly media isn't hysterical. So I reject this notion that "liberal" media is the sole problem. If anything corroborate media is the problem, and that covers the entire political spectrum. Its divisive and most people are not self aware enough to cut through it all.

On Trump. I think their is a common assumption that because I hate Trump's character that I have to hold a bias on everything he does. I do hate Trump's character, I think he is a selfish piece of garbage a grifter who spent his life taking advantage of people to his obvious benefit. I am able to put that aside and look at his actions and policies objectively since many politicians are probably not the best people. His tax cuts were a huge swindle benefiting corporations and the super rich running up the deficit which will surely cause budgetary problems later on. The economy was growing at a fast clip before he came into office, and at best he can claim to have had a marginal impact. His wall, there is no wall. They spent tons of money to build small sections that people cut through within days. Great campaign slogan, stupid idea that doesn't solve a damn thing. Child separation policy at the border was inhumane. Hurricane response was botched thousands died in Puerto Rico. Lick Kim's ass in North Korea and North Korea still did what they wanted. Let the Saudi's get a free pass on beheading a journalist. Bombed Syria. Didn't respond to the Corona virus adequately and ended up with the worst outbreak in the world in one of the wealthiest countries in the world. If anyone else were in office I would point out the very say things.

Then there is the biggest issue with Trump. I reject that politics should be purely transactional. I can't speak for others but I believe that decency is an important human virtue. I assume most of us teach our children to be decent people and to treat others with decency. We want our children to be treated the same way. I assume we aspire for a world that is better. I reject this idea that we can have a president that is the antithesis of decency and that's okay if he can deliver something politically that we want. After politics we still have to be able to live with each other. We have to be able to coexist with our neighbors. He is intentionally divisive, if you can't admit that then you choose to ignore it. Politics is pointless if all you do is ram things down peoples throats only to have it reversed a few years later and have something else rammed through. Lasting politics and true progress can't be achieved with Trump's politics. He didn't create this division but he certainly knows how to and decided he will use that to his advantage no matter what the eventual cost is. Maybe from this transactional point of view that isn't important but I disagree.

Its hard to not see the parallels with Macedonia. Don't we criticize Macedonians for being transactional instead of idealist? They vote for candidates in order to get something. Who cares if they are corrupt, if they lie and steal. If you voted for Zaev to get into the EU, then he has done is best to deliver that. So who cares about his "character" flaws as some would put them. We see how counterproductive Macedonia's hyper partisan politics are. We've seen first hand what happens when politicians divide the people along party lines. I don't see why this is any different. We think its wrong to vote in order to get a job out of it, hey that's a transaction pure and simple. We don't like how Macedonian media tells every story based on party rhetoric instead of facts. Macedonian politicians have never had decency or acted like leaders. The only difference is Trump has a wealthy powerful country at his back to compensate for his incompetence.

Trump is not conservative and neither are a lot of his followers. Held the bible upside down LMAO, he held it like a man holding a baby, he didn't know what to do with it, you can't make it up. Those that have a hard on for conservatism will be sorely disappointed when in the long term they realize that the Trump brand actually ended up hurting conservatism. I would be my life he couldn't even define conservatism or tell you a few differences between communism and conservatism. So stop kidding yourselves. He is an opportunist, and had the left offered a better path to election, the right would be losing their shit right now about how horrible of a person he is and how he is a communist god hater who is ruining America and the world. He'd be labeled a rapist and liar and he would have gladly forced through a liberal agenda to stadiums full of adoring fans.

I don't agree with everything liberals or conservatives want politically, but I demand that certain standards and decorum be upheld and that politicians are held to a higher standard. People are dumb enough, they don't need more indecent role models, the Kardashians are enough. If given the choice between Trump and Biden, I will vote for Biden, not because he great and I love everything about him, but because that is the choice I am faced with, the lesser of to evils.

On other topics. The police and criminal justice model in the US is flawed. Police here are very aggressive, they escalate too quickly and are very trigger happy. I reject that the #1 priority is the cops safety. You combine militarized police, with warrior mentality, and I have to shoot when I feel scared and you end up with a dysfunctional policing model. When us sign up to be a cop you know it could be dangerous, you love the pension at 45 and great benefits, well the danger comes with the territory. If you want to be safe be an accountant. We let our police get away with too much in the name of police safety. All a cop has to say is I thought I was in danger and he is off the hook. If George Floyd wasn't caught on camera, what would the 4 cops have said? People are scared of the police, and the police are trained to instill fear, that whole model is flawed. The criminal justice system is a revolving door for poverty, drug abuse, and mental disorder. So when I hear people say defund the police, I don't think we shouldn't have police. I think that in my town of 9000 residents, we don't needs Humvee's, ATV units, a swat team, and god knows what else. Camden NJ disbanded its police force in 2013, and reformed it, since then complaints are down 95% and crime decreased across the board for all offences. Policing shouldn't be about pure submission and fear. It's about community, protecting and serving your community. These protests are warranted, and massive changes are needed in how we deal with crime, what policing should look like, and how the criminal justice system works. The police belong to the people, so if the people don't like the way the police do their jobs then they have a right to re do the system.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Some further developments on the "defund the police" initiative.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-...floyd/12331788

Minneapolis City Council members have pledged to dismantle the city's police department. Nine of the council's 12 members appeared at a rally in a city park on Sunday afternoon local time and vowed to end the current system of policing in the city. They pledged to instead invest in a community-based public safety model, but did not provide specific details.........On Saturday, activists for defunding the department staged a protest outside the home of Mayor Jacob Frey, who came out to talk with them........When pressed on whether he supported their demands, he said: "I do not support the full abolition of the police department." He left to booing.

So their idea for one of the more dangerous cities in the U.S. and the most dangerous in the state is to abolish the police and replace it with some vague notion of something else which they can't yet articulate or define. What could possibly go wrong. And when the leftist mayor opposes it, he is heckled by the same constituents he depends on for votes. This is the result of virtue signalling and pandering to fringe elements while poisoning the minds of otherwise sensible people. This is what it looks like when the chickens come home to roost for the Democratic party. Meanwhile, from a person on another galaxy far away, we have this opinion piece..........

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...w/?arc404=true

Shut down all police movies and TV shows. Now.........immediately halt production on cop shows and movies and rethink the stories it tells about policing in America.............Say writers made a commitment not to exaggerate the performance of police. Audiences would have to be retrained to watch, for example, a version of “Special Victims Unit” where the characters cleared only 33.4 percent of rape cases, or to accept that in almost 40 percent of murders and manslaughters, no suspect is arrested.

Sounds like a class in one of those communist camps where they "retrain" you how to think and feel.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Its gaining traction here too, but much worse. Aboriginal protest organisers in Melbourne want to dismantle the police and justice system.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/coronav...SZ80LJrl_WBiKY

So, dismantle the police and justice system. Great. Then what? Such sweeping statements that lack any kind of clarity in detail, adequate follow up or thorough planning are useless, not to mention unrealistic. So many people have been virtue signalling these last couple of weeks yet none have outlined a rational and articulate response on how their aims can be achieved. It's a shame because some of the concerns that sparked these protests are valid.

[Vangelovski]

Back to the protests, the "defund the police" narrative is beginning to gain traction in certain Democratic circles. Quite amusing. So, rather than focusing on process reforms, how they can improve the vetting of potential police officers at the recruitment stage, providing more frequent training, introducing better mental health reviews on a periodical basis and establishing a more efficient method of supervision, discipline and quality control, some people are now parroting a catchphrase which, if realised, would have a profound impact on society.

Its gaining traction here too, but much worse. Aboriginal protest organisers in Melbourne want to dismantle the police and justice system.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/coronavirus/melbourne-protest-leaders-controversial-comments-unearthed/news-story/2dbd73b3fcfa5442198e3d5d7178616d?fbclid=IwAR3Oo4S8Ac8mkEM8Ld5x4QM-IATie2832wTJORXdvuZ-FSZ80LJrl_WBiKY

[Soldier of Macedon]

Back to the protests, the "defund the police" narrative is beginning to gain traction in certain Democratic circles. Quite amusing. So, rather than focusing on process reforms, how they can improve the vetting of potential police officers at the recruitment stage, providing more frequent training, introducing better mental health reviews on a periodical basis and establishing a more efficient method of supervision, discipline and quality control, some people are now parroting a catchphrase which, if realised, would have a profound impact on society.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I never get tired of hearing lefties tell me how shamefully privileged I am and that I must apologise for that.

No normal person on the right, centre or left of the political spectrum denies that slavery and racial discrimination were a horrible part of American history. But what is achieved by people kneeling in deference to strangers and apologising for the actions of people who died over a century ago? Are the youth of the contemporary Muslim world responsible for the past oppression of Christian Europe and Sub-Saharan Africa? There are countless other examples. The past should be acknowledged and it should never be forgotten, but the hope is that at some point people look forward and at least try to foster an environment of mutual respect. Alas, given what we know of human nature, perhaps in some cases that may be too idealistic. Macedonians who know their history understand this only too well. Go back far enough and everybody has a grievance. But if one does have a current grievance, why not channel that anger constructively or at least direct it at those who are responsible? How does burning down neighbourhoods, robbing stores, assaulting bystanders or attacking innocent people trying to protect their properties contribute in any way to the cause of justice? How can such 'courage' be mustered in amidst such chaos yet when an officer is causing the death of a man that 'courage' is limited to live commentary and smartphone recordings?

Leftist media outlets are doing their utmost to portray these disturbances as "mostly peaceful", all while there are buildings on fire in the background or in some instances seconds before their reporters are confronted and abused by rioters themselves. There are irresponsible celebrities talking about people being "hunted down", the type of hyperbole that only enflames the sentiments of impressionable youth. There is that moron who was cheering the destruction on Twitter, only to quickly change his tune and abuse the rioters when they began causing trouble near his home. Then there are politicians who have instructed the police to arrest people who break 'laws' on restriction of movement due to COVID-19, only to accept thousands of people huddled together whilst protesting (or rioting or whatever). The hypocrisy and lack of responsibility is astounding. These protests may have started as peaceful mass gatherings to call out injustice, but unfortunately for those well-meaning people, they're activities have been hijacked by opportunistic criminals and the so-called Antifa clowns. Some of the peaceful protesters have tried to dissuade others from burning, looting, destroying, etc., but their impact has been negligible. The same pattern has been repeated in London and Paris. There is a large gathering planned for Melbourne on Saturday. Ultimately, optics matter, so the legitimate protesters need to reject and remove such elements if they are to regain the initiative. At this point, however, I am not sure that is even possible and sooner or later, more people will call for order to be restored.

Quite surprising since he well known for being very presidential, quite brave, and an all around good guy.

Is the opposing guy who mumbled his way through the primaries and talked about little kids rubbing his legs a better option?

[Risto the Great]

That was pretty compelling.

[Karposh]

Before anyone feels compelled to "Take the Knee", perhaps out of a genuine show of support for the cause, or, more than likely, because it's currently quite the trendy thing to do, please pay special attention to the following video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qwif8PF1EI

The really eye-opening bit starts at the 5 minute mark.

I never get tired of hearing lefties tell me how shamefully privileged I am and that I must apologise for that.

[Karposh]

Current personal faults notwithstanding, any potential candidate that opposes the regressive left is an all round good guy as far as I'm concerned.

[Gocka]

Trump hasn't done himself any favours tweeting away from the safety of the white house and, in the process, coming off less than presidential

Quite surprising since he well known for being very presidential, quite brave, and an all around good guy.

[Karposh]

Most of the looting I've seen on Twitter is of blacks running out of shops with their arms full of everything from cheesecakes to guitars.

That's too funny. Opportunism at its best.

Evidence of wilful damage to shops and other buildings seems to be largely perpetrated by blacks of various ages and youngish looking white kids.

Angry young blacks but also pasty white lefies (mostly Antifa) taking advantage of the situation.

Cowardly group attacks on mostly solitary white males has been at the hands of groups of blacks and young white men.

Shocking video exists of a white woman getting absolutely pummeled by a couple of black guys. Cowardly is not even the word...Pure wickedness.

None appear to be "white supremacists" by their actions nor in general appearance...they look more like the- extinction rebellion cunts

Trump hasn't done himself any favours tweeting away from the safety of the white house and, in the process, coming off less than presidential, but, in an election year, it fits the lefty (Democratic) narrative to label the trouble makers as "white supremacists" rather than admitting the vandalism is mainly due to those lefty cunts that you speak of.

The vast bulk of this shit has nothing to do with Floyd's unfortunate death (as everybody knows), the battle is between the various groups of the political left and their hatred of Trump - not sure where white supremacists fit the bill.

Absolutely...100% agree.

[tchaiku]

White supremacists may or may not be posing as Antifa.
But I do know that in general the far right-wingers are big liars and deceivers.
And they tend to like to play the victim too.

[Carlin]

Sony TVs Matter

A couple of updates from tonight:
- The Pentagon moves 1600 troops, including infantry battalion, to bases near D.C.
- Several Wounded, Including 2 NYPD Officers In Brooklyn Shooting
- NYPD Officers attacked by looters in Manhattan
- Militarized police are arresting people in Milwaukee and aiming shotguns at crowds