Greeks are not Greeks according to Shiptares (Albanians), what you think of article?

[George S.]

Amphipolis how come the greeks never understood the macedonian language it was gibberish to them.Also thats why the greeks considered the macedonians as barbarians a non greek.A common man a common foot soldier of macedonian descent would not need speak or know greek there is no need.But the royal house spoke greek for commercial reasons etc.Alexanders commanders it was shown preffered to speak to their men in macedonian.Proof that no other language but macedonian was spoken.Amphipolis you are wrong.The two races are not the same they did not speak the one language greek.You are plainly wrong.

[Risto the Great]

So what was the Greek language that the Macedonian Court was using and educated in? Well, it is usually called Classic Greek or Attic and is basically the language of almost all Greek Classic Literature. Is it dramatically different than Common Greek? I can tell you practically. Being a Greek with no special education in literature (I was taught Ancient Greek for two years in school) I wouldn’t bet on recognizing a document. Generally, Koine should be easier and closer to Modern Greek but this is a huge generalization.

Is this the proof of the language of the ancient Macedonians I was seeking? Try harder please. I am looking forward to proof that would be comparable to something an educated person would be willing to offer instead of that which a drunken Greek might be willing to opine in a cafe.

[Amphipolis]

Is this the proof of the language of the ancient Macedonians I was seeking? Try harder please. I am looking forward to proof that would be comparable to something an educated person would be willing to offer instead of that which a drunken Greek might be willing to opine in a cafe.

My post was not even in the topic of Ancient Macedonian language and its’ possible nature. It was about Koine and post#77 that has some of the following statements:

The Koine language made its way into Macedonia a little before Philip II’s time.

Wrong. Koine refers to something that did not exist during Philip’s time

Poorly worded and misspelled inscriptions written in Koine were found in the Macedonian capital which indicates that the language was not well understood and was just making its way there.

Wrong. Inscriptions are in Attic and generally don’t have misspellings or different (idiom) properties.

By the time Koine arrived in Macedonia it was already the “lingua franca” of administration and commerce in the Eastern Mediterranean world.

That is both wrong and different than the first statement. Koine was supposed to be a vernacular language (originally) and became “lingua franca” BECAUSE of Alexander’s conquests. THUS Koine did not travel FROM Macedonia to Eastern Mediterranean or vice versa but was dynamically formed everywhere in the post-Alexander era. Regarding the exact forms of Koine we know about, Alexandria as a cultural center must have played a crucial role.

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[makedonche]

The term "Common (Koine) Greek" that was already formed in Antiquity refers to a language formed during the post-Alexander era. Wikipedia says the language started forming among the troops of Alexander the Great. No one can be definite about it, but the first major document of Koine is the Greek translation of Bible which was made in Alexandria around 60-80 years after Alexander's death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koine_Greek

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint

So what was the Greek language that the Macedonian Court was using and educated in? Well, it is usually called Classic Greek or Attic and is basically the language of almost all Greek Classic Literature. Is it dramatically different than Common Greek? I can tell you practically. Being a Greek with no special education in literature (I was taught Ancient Greek for two years in school) I wouldn’t bet on recognizing a document. Generally, Koine should be easier and closer to Modern Greek but this is a huge generalization.

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I thought so!!!!!!

[George S.]

yes they are a little confused as the greek govt has even changed their greek language and forced it on them.

[Stojacanec]

In his days Macedonia's official language was a typical Attic.

How is it that in 700 AD Saints Cyrill and Medodius had to teach the Macedonians in their vernacular? Surely an official language in Alexander's days wouldn't have been forgotten that easily.

[Nikolaj]

This is a segment of SoM's thesis Amphipolis, enjoy.

Firstly, we will view the linguistic situation provided by ancient texts to examine what kind of speakers lived in Macedonia and the surrounding regions and their links to each other. In Homer’s Iliad no people north of Olympus accompanied the united Greeks on their way to Troy, quite the contrary rather, the Paeonians and Thracians who peopled the area fought on behalf of the Trojans. It is recorded that the Halkidik region was historically known as a Thracian land, and it was not until the importation of Greek peoples through colonies did it achieve its later partial Hellenistic character. This being the case, the native language of the land cannot have been Greek, as is indirectly explained by Thucydides;

Quote:
The cities in Acte are Sane, a colony of Andros, which is just by the canal on the sea facing towards Euboea, and also Thyssus, Cleone, Acrothoi, Olophyxus, and Dium – all these later towns being inhabited by mixed foreign races, speaking both Greek and their own dialects. There is also a small Chalcidian element; but the greater number are Tyrrheno-Pelasgians once settled in Lemnos and Athens, and Bisaltians, Crestonians, and Edonians; the towns being all small ones. (4, 109)
Speaking both Greek and their own dialects, meaning there were two languages, Greek and the native with its own dialects. Here we have a clear distinction between the native language of Macedonia and the Greek tongue which are described as separate. Important to note is the reason why in some regions both languages were spoken, which is obviously due to one being native and the other an import, an import that could only have occurred through the colonies described above. These colonies were mostly situated among the native populations hence the reason why Thucydides made mention of the facts above, also the influence of these, cultural-wise, would surely have began to spread to neighbouring regions due to their prosperity. In Strabo’s Geography, a listing is made of all the Greek peoples, the Macedonians do not feature among these. Although Strabo himself tended to believe that the Macedonian region is geographically Greek for unclear reasons, at the same time he makes it plain and clear that those who people Macedonia were certainly not Greek. According to the ancient sources, the Greeks are not natives to the Balkan region, but rather the Pelasgi are, or better still the Thracians and Illyrians. Strabo explains it as follows;

Quote:
Thracians, Illyrians, and Epirotæ are settled even at present on the sides of Greece. Formerly the territory they possessed was more extensive, although even now the barbarians possess a large part of the country, which, without dispute, is Greece. Macedonia is occupied by Thracians, as well as some parts of Thessaly; the country above Acarnania and Ætolia, by Thesproti, Cassopæi, Amphilochi, Molotti, and Athamanes, Epirotic tribes. (7, 7, 1)
It is highly improbable that these people, collectively referred to as barbarians, were not in some way linguistically connected. If we are to accept ancient history as it is, with different Greek-speaking tribes referred to as nations, then we must also leave open the likely possibility of these barbarians also falling within a similar situation, however without the use of any codified literature and adding to this the ignorance of the ancient Greek writers towards most things barbaric, such details were neglected and as such were not recorded in detail. Not only Macedonia, but also parts of the land to the immediate south, Thessaly, was peopled by Thracians, which comes as no surprise considering the other proofs that corroborate these facts. Interestingly, the regions near Aetolia are also spoken of as inhabited by barbarians, which goes hand in hand with the words of Phillip V of Macedon, as recorded by Polybius;

Quote:
“What is this Greece which you demand that I should evacuate, and how do you define Greece? Certainly most of the Aetolians themselves are not Greeks!” (18, 5)
Indeed they are not. Now, as we have seen, Macedonia is a Thracian land, even from its origins, its occasional Greek references are due to cultural influence, here is yet another quote from Strabo which describes a linguistic connection between the Macedonians and the Epirote;

Quote:
They gave the name of Upper Macedonia to the country about Lyncestis, Pelagonia, Orestias, and Elimia. Later writers called it Macedonia the Free, and some extend the name of Macedonia to all the country as far as Corcyra, at the same time assigning as their reasons, the mode of cutting their hair, their language, the use of the chlamys, and similar things in which they resemble the Macedonians; some of them, however, speak two languages. On the dissolution of the Macedonian empire, they fell under the power of the Romans. [7, 7,8]
Customs and language, in which they resemble the Macedonians, it cannot be more precise than that. Once again we see mention of two languages being spoken, one would surely be the native language, while the other would be Greek. What needs to be kept in mind is that the people being spoken of here have already been described as non-Greek, and if they speak the same language we can safely assume that the second language must be Greek, or possibly in some cases Latin, although this latter suggestion is not as likely. Putting the pieces together, the Epirote are a tribe related to the Illyrians, the Macedonians related to the Thracians, and these people as described share the same language. Thus we can already see that there was indeed a native Macedonian language, and that its relation to the west-Illyrian and east-Thracian element was extremely significant.

[George S.]

Well said i couldn't have said it any better myself.