Republic of Macedonia's EU and NATO Strategies

[Risto the Great]

On the contrary, Greece has Greeks, it's not like the area you live in. I understand nostalgia, but oh boy, it must be very hard for you.

Sure. And not a single racist lives there.

Well perhaps the greeks are not caught in a peculiar stance and they are not worth filming for.
But really, your argument makes no sense. There was a guy tht was filming you, therefore there is a macedonian minority? How do you connect these two?

There are Macedonians all over the world that came from what is now Greece. There are also former Albanians and former Macedonians that think they will gain favour for reporting on these Macedonians to authorities (term used loosely) in Greece. It is well documented your government squandered well over one hundred million dollars for "patriotic purposes". You asked, I told you. They are maggots. Like you.

Nope, I said slav is an identifier. I happen to have a different agenda than the greek government my dear.
I think that you are macedonin because macedonia is enriched with your culture, greek culture etc.
The greek govt. completely denies your identity and any connection to macedonia. It's a world of difference.
And above all, by accepting your macedonian idenity I automatically connect you with macedonia as a whole.
Try to work a little on that. You 'll figure it out.

If slav is an identifier, we should be able to see "slavs" easily. What do they look like?I am scared I might look like a slav. They sound really terrible based on Greek perception. Macedonians are unique, just like Greeks. Each have had their own influences. Greece has had them all the way from San Torino to Solun.

It is a slavic idiom, related to your slavic language as it does with all slavic language of the area. That's it. Take it or leave it.
I don't deny mistakes of the greeks in the past Risto. I have already said that. In fact I already explained the Metaxas regime. Try to be more consistent when you read and not jump posts of mine.

I'll leave it. It is a language you hateful Greek. I don't need to take it from you. I know it well. You don't know. But I (and numerous scholars) know what happened to your "language". Mine is a glorious language. It is even described that way. It was taught to the Bulgarian invaders also. Such a rich history. You should learn more about it, you might be related to some (not that you would admit it).

You are telling me that your grandparents spoke the same language as you, but you are not telling me how this idiom spoken by these specific people differs from your language.

Take a look at the Macedonian literary dictionary. You will see words of non Macedonian origin. No difference either side of the recently constructed artificial border. I told you before, the literary language was based heavily on my dialect. Are you that thick? How embarrassing for you not to know this and use it to rely on your ridiculous argument for classifying my people's language as an idiom in order to distinguish it from the modern Macedonian literary language. I await your retraction based upon your complete lack of knowledge of the matter.

No my foolish and easily misguided friend.

1. They don't have a written form and they have barely a grammar. That's not a language. That's an idiom. They also have influences from greek, bulgarian and turkish. Are you still trying to claim their idiom as your language? I don't think so because it hurts. It burns!!!
2. I am not tlking about your language I am talking about their idiom, you psychotic.
3. Your ignorance deafens you.
4. So typically nationalistic.

I speak in my language which IS the "idiom" you speak of. Are you embarrassed yet? I told you where my people came from and how they were forced to speak that new language of what is now northern Greece. Now you know why the Macedonians of Greece speak the purest form of modern Greek you hateful Greek. It was new to them. Happy to help you learn something about your country.

You will have to bring me a recognised minority. Otherwise you are simply trying to make out one.
That's what stands. Not your imagination.
Ban me and prove you can't stand the truth. Avoid disclosure if you must.

Recognised by Greece? You must be joking. The Greek culture has its foundations in hatred for other races.

Remember what happened when your Polish immigrants tried to open a cultural centre in Greece? What a sad little country Greece is. I am quite sure it stems from a fragile identity. You are an excellent example of this.

Oh, and please spare me with Voskopoulos. He doesn't get votes, so clearly hasn't captured the hearts of the Macedonian minority in Greece.

Banning you will simply eradicate a hateful Greek who denies the existence of my people. I exist, and you are proof of the hatefulness of your people. Unlike you, I am useful.

[spitfire]

Sure. And not a single racist lives there.

There are Macedonians all over the world that came from what is now Greece. There are also former Albanians and former Macedonians that think they will gain favour for reporting on these Macedonians to authorities (term used loosely) in Greece. It is well documented your government squandered well over one hundred million dollars for "patriotic purposes". You asked, I told you. They are maggots. Like you.

The greek gvt gave that amount to such purposes. Right. And you expect to be taken seriously.
That's conspiracy theory and very indicative of what you are prone to believe.

If slav is an identifier, we should be able to see "slavs" easily. What do they look like?I am scared I might look like a slav. They sound really terrible based on Greek perception. Macedonians are unique, just like Greeks. Each have had their own influences. Greece has had them all the way from San Torino to Solun.

Here's an example of a slav identifier. One who speaks a slavic language. Do you deny this? It is a general term. I am sorry but it identifies something slavic.
You don't like how it sounds? Fine, call it something else. Let's call it Takis.

I'll leave it. It is a language you hateful Greek. I don't need to take it from you. I know it well. You don't know. But I (and numerous scholars) know what happened to your "language". Mine is a glorious language. It is even described that way. It was taught to the Bulgarian invaders also. Such a rich history. You should learn more about it, you might be related to some (not that you would admit it).

It is a slavic idiom, therefore easily understood by most. What makes you think the Bulgarians don't understand it?

Take a look at the Macedonian literary dictionary. You will see words of non Macedonian origin. No difference either side of the recently constructed artificial border. I told you before, the literary language was based heavily on my dialect. Are you that thick? How embarrassing for you not to know this and use it to rely on your ridiculous argument for classifying my people's language as an idiom in order to distinguish it from the modern Macedonian literary language. I await your retraction based upon your complete lack of knowledge of the matter.

300 definitions? and you call this what exactly? A fountain that created all other slavic languages?
Yeah pretty rich I'd say... .

I speak in my language which IS the "idiom" you speak of. Are you embarrassed yet? I told you where my people came from and how they were forced to speak that new language of what is now northern Greece. Now you know why the Macedonians of Greece speak the purest form of modern Greek you hateful Greek. It was new to them. Happy to help you learn something about your country.

Here you go again. I told you it is a slavic idiom. With influence from Greek and Turkish and Bulgarian. There is hardly a grammar and it is verbal, no written form.
Your slavic language is compatible with slavic languages of the area therefore it is easily integrated with that idiom, and that's why you understand and speak and interact with them.

Recognised by Greece? You must be joking. The Greek culture has its foundations in hatred for other races.

Show me in my comment where I said recognised by Greece only.
There you go again putting words in my mouth.
Minorities require an international recognition through specific circumstances.
Do you have them? No. Therefore this is not a minority. Be careful with that term. It's another country's bussines. I suggest you "fugetaboutit". It's the best way to work in the opposite direction.

Remember what happened when your Polish immigrants tried to open a cultural centre in Greece? What a sad little country Greece is. I am quite sure it stems from a fragile identity. You are an excellent example of this.

All poles think the best of Greece. Another people that came to Greece and through hard work prospered.
And we like the Poles. We also liked Lech Valessa and the solidarity.

How can you pick the worst examples every single time? I wonder!

Oh, and please spare me with Voskopoulos. He doesn't get votes, so clearly hasn't captured the hearts of the Macedonian minority in Greece.

Banning you will simply eradicate a hateful Greek who denies the existence of my people. I exist, and you are proof of the hatefulness of your people. Unlike you, I am useful.

Good, you show signs of sanity. That's what I said about Voskopoulos and his political games.

As far as the banning threat is concearned, I don't mind. You'd probably prove the opposite with that.

[Nikolaj]

1. I beleive anything you say Nikolaj. You know better.
2. There are no occupied regions within Greece. What's in Greece in Greek, especially the macedonian region which represents archaic macedonia.
There are international treaties that confirm the borders and sovereign. They are not based on fairy tales of grandad and grandmom.
3. The idiom they use is related closely to all slavic languages of the area. What makes your language so special?
4. Nikolaj you are trully an idiot if you believe that anybody would spread his legs just because you imagine it.
5. I'm not misinterpreting anything. I am simply saying that you can't build a case in the context of a block of facts, cisseling out most of that block of facts.
6. You are falling to a trap, much to greece's joy.

I told you a story, let it be fictitious to you or not. I told you it knowing you wouldn't accept it, instead I assumed you would have taken it hypothetically so you can answer my question.

Not misinterpreting anything? Holy crap you sure are Spitfire.

Do you agree there is a possibility you cannot visually see a Macedonian identity in Greece or statistically see a Macedonian identity for the same reason Macedonians who live in Greece have forcefully learnt your Greek language?

[spitfire]

I told you a story, let it be fictitious to you or not. I told you it knowing you wouldn't accept it, instead I assumed you would have taken it hypothetically so you can answer my question.

Not misinterpreting anything? Holy crap you sure are Spitfire.

Do you agree there is a possibility you cannot visually see a Macedonian identity in Greece or statistically see a Macedonian identity for the same reason Macedonians who live in Greece have forcefully learnt your Greek language?

I'm sorry, was that question addressed to me or was it to someone else?

Anyway. Let's get this straight. If I tell you that the story (despite the cisseling out of the two thirds of the facts) is plausible, will this make you happy?

There is no way to tell exactly. We both know that. We both know what happened, so let's cut to the chase here. The simple truth is that with all the turbulence and political "specula" of the events of that time, everything screwed up.
I'm not denying what happened. It is very early history and well documented as far as the events go.
But to extend this all the way to archaic macedonia and claim it for yourself is quite... what Greece would like you to do. And you fell for it.

[makedonche]

That's what I asked too. What are they? Are we placing bets? OK I'll say that it's a recipe.



Homer was a poet that wrote two very famous epic works in the ionic dialect of greek in 800BC reffering to things that happened around 1200BC.

Spitfire
You keep playing the denial and deferral game very well, one of your cultural traits instilled through your education system, which most Greeks(whatever the fuck Greeks means...no such thing, they are so interbred-by force & choice but mainly for favours, there wouldn't be one left from the days of the ancients).
For the last time, because I don't think you'll be around much longer, the image shows pelasgian texts, the text compared to Albanian and the meaning in Albanian.......in short, you are more Albanian than you confess to be and you think that just by feeling Greek you're still Greek...hahahahahaha, go tell that to the first President and Vice President of your country after Ottoman succession, or is that part of the history that you fail to refer to due to the inconvenience of the truth?
So Homer the poet wrote in 800bc about things that happened in 1200bc.....I understand now, your nationalistic tendencies are based on the writings of a poet who wrote about something that happened 400 years earlier...great source, very reliable/factual/historically accurate.....if you're Greek of course...for the rest of the world it's poetry, entertaining and amusing. For Greeks it's documented history and proof of 4,000 years of continuity...get a grip you dellusional imbecile, if you can't trace your own history though your family back 100 years ago without accuracy, how the hell do you put any credibility on a poet writing about something that happened 400 years earlier????
Even with all our modern technology today we still can't say, with any absolute accuracy, what/how/why something happened 400 years ago, but I understand how you Greeks operate, claim everything and then let the rest of the world prove you wrong.....a definite sign of insecurity, stemming from an identity crisis due to reliance on mythology/poetry,indiscriminate interpretation and an unhealthy desire to be something you really are not...by desperately clinging to anything remotely that panders to your imaginations, and staying well clear of any truths that don't support your dellusions or disprove your 4,000 year continuity wet dream.......such as the Macedonian Minority in Greece.....living proof of your dellusions, which is why your government has gone to extremes to exterminate the language/culture/ethnicity/names and anything connected with them, because that would be an admission they exist. Wake the fuck up and stop living and using denial of what you don't like or agree with as a tool to prove you exist and have existed 4,000 years continually, or you could stay in your state of Greek denial and live in delusion...your choice, my task is to make you aware of these things, whether you take notice or acknowledge them is up to you ultimately - personally could't give a rat's arse what you do or choose, but don't think you can come to a Macedonian Truth Forum and start spreading greek bullshit and get away with it! To that end I wish you farewell and truly hope you find, recognise and accept the truth, for the truth will set you free from you mental Greek propoganda prison!

[Nikolaj]

I'm sorry, was that question addressed to me or was it to someone else?

Anyway. Let's get this straight. If I tell you that the story (despite the cisseling out of the two thirds of the facts) is plausible, will this make you happy?

There is no way to tell exactly. We both know that. We both know what happened, so let's cut to the chase here. The simple truth is that with all the turbulence and political "specula" of the events of that time, everything screwed up.
I'm not denying what happened. It is very early history and well documented as far as the events go.
But to extend this all the way to archaic macedonia and claim it for yourself is quite... what Greece would like you to do. And you fell for it.

Thank you, so there is a possibility. So lets say hypothetically it were true, how does this correspond with your stance on a minority? If a minority isn't acknowledged there is no minority? How does this make sense if it were true then? Is your definition of a minority flawed?

The point is you can have multiple minorities living within your boarders, do they exist? Yes. Do you need to acknowledge them? No. Does this mean they cease to exist? Of course not. Is this something you propose to be the definition of a minority? Yes. Were you right? No.

When did I extend anything to archaic Macedonia? What did I fall for? Also, if you haven't noticed, your claim of lineage from archaic Macedonia is as viable as our claim.

Also, why do you keep pulling the archaic Macedonia card? You’re mixing up chronological ethnic and geographic boarders. You are referring to Chalkidiki which had attic inhabitants. This had correlation to Thrace and had nothing to do with the Macedonian kingdom. This only had relevancy to Macedonia when Phillip conquered it so why does it matter? The boarders of Macedonia changed, this does not imply Macedonia was within Hellenic boarders it means Chalkidiki was relinquished from Hellenic boarders. This means the boarders of Hellas changed, do you not understand how conquering land works?

[George S.]

This thread has really deteiriated why bother to post when you don't even agree on basic things.Why bother to post.??eh

[Momce Makedonce]

He says that it's a personal decision MM. His words not mine. And the video has his relative also who is greek.

So it's clear what this thing is all about. But even if we accept it as it is and take what you say, you can't explain why in the second video which is the interview, he says that he doesn't want any state to use them because he knows what happens to condoms.

So either way, there is a problem when you try to claim them. QED.

It`s his personal choice to identify as Macedonian, unlike his relative who has probably sold himself out and become a 'pure' Greek overnight.

What state was he referring to specifically when he said this? The Republic of Macedonia or Greece?

I have seen an interview with Voskopoulos on a TV station from the Republic of Macedonia. Surely if he was saying he doesn't want to get used by this state(Rep of Macedonia) he wouldn`t have made an appearance for an interview.

[Stojacanec]

Spitfire you are really talking out of your arse right now. Which is nothing new coming from people our ilk.

Re the Macedonian minorities in Aegean Macedonia. You say they don't exist.
Forget for one second about the people there for a moment.

what about the Macdonians in the diaspora that have migrated from that region in the last say 50 years to differnt parts of the world eg Australia, USA, Canada.

These people are all from there.
They must have many relatives that remained there.
I can have a confersation with them in Macedonian and I know about 5 words of greek.
probably population of 1 mil world wide.

Don't worry, I'll tell you what your problem is no need to admit anything.

you people use the work idiom when you should be using the word minority. That's about as pathetic as it gets.

[Momce Makedonce]

It is a slavic idiom, therefore easily understood by most. What makes you think the Bulgarians don't understand it?

What is this Slavic idiom rubbish you are going on about? The language is Macedonian and is the same language that is spoken by the people of the Republic of Macedonia.

Bulgarians may understand some of it as their language is similar to Macedonian. However they wont understand all of it because this language being spoken is Macedonian, not Bulgarian.

It`s really quite simple.

[Phoenix]

I sense the imminent demise of our little denying friend, spitfire.

I'd like to see this self-loathing little turd remain here.
Guys like spitfire and his racist cohorts aren't to be feared, they should be free to express their racism and discrimination.

Rather than banning these retards, I think they should be branded with the Nazi swastika as their avatar...that way any casual visitor to the forum will be under no illusion as to the ideological beliefs of the greek spitfire's of the forum...

[spitfire]

Thank you, so there is a possibility. So lets say hypothetically it were true, how does this correspond with your stance on a minority? If a minority isn't acknowledged there is no minority? How does this make sense if it were true then? Is your definition of a minority flawed?

The point is you can have multiple minorities living within your boarders, do they exist? Yes. Do you need to acknowledge them? No. Does this mean they cease to exist? Of course not. Is this something you propose to be the definition of a minority? Yes. Were you right? No.

When did I extend anything to archaic Macedonia? What did I fall for? Also, if you haven't noticed, your claim of lineage from archaic Macedonia is as viable as our claim.

Also, why do you keep pulling the archaic Macedonia card? You’re mixing up chronological ethnic and geographic boarders. You are referring to Chalkidiki which had attic inhabitants. This had correlation to Thrace and had nothing to do with the Macedonian kingdom. This only had relevancy to Macedonia when Phillip conquered it so why does it matter? The boarders of Macedonia changed, this does not imply Macedonia was within Hellenic boarders it means Chalkidiki was relinquished from Hellenic boarders. This means the boarders of Hellas changed, do you not understand how conquering land works?

Nikolaj, the borders in the archaic world are not like the borders today. I'm sure you can understand that. There were city states and in fact a representation of the map represents what they called as their region.

So I take it that you don't extend this to the archaic world, which is good, because if you do, you 'll end up like the brainless nationalists, who try to prove this link and become the lauphing stock worldwide showing how uneducated they are.
You also avoid being called a scam trying to manipulate history by choosing carefully a few extracts from here and there, delliberatelly hiding the bigger picture, in order to make up a fictional reality.
Up to this, the thesis of Greece agrees to my thesis. And in fact the intention and interest about archaic macedonia is a sincere one.

But,

Unfortunately, because of the underlying connection that the name of macedonia has with a lot of things, that include also archaic macedonia of course, Greece is avoiding recent history. And this is where my thesis and Greece's thesis start thinking of a divorce.
I don't need to explain why, it is obvious why I disagree.

When it comes to the use of the word minority, this is a very dangerous terminology because it concearns the internal affairs of a country different to yours.
If you observed closely, the Rainbow party avoids any official report to a minority. It lets the colour or the smell of a minority to hang around, but it doesn't officially talk about a minority. It uses words like community.
Those people are greek citizens, with their unique culture, and it should stay that way. Whatever claims they have it's between them and their state. Not anybody else's business.
They can't be regarded a minority because a minority usually identifies a different ethnic group. They are not such, they say they are greeks.
They aren't even a religious group.
What's left? The language. This is tricky. That's because it is an idiom and idioms are not rare. Also the term idiom is a general term. Even a heavy pronunciation can be regarded an idiom in some cases. You understand where this leads to.

So the best thing is to leave them alone, and what they want will be affair between them and the greek state.

[spitfire]

Spitfire
You keep playing the denial and deferral game very well, one of your cultural traits instilled through your education system, which most Greeks(whatever the fuck Greeks means...no such thing, they are so interbred-by force & choice but mainly for favours, there wouldn't be one left from the days of the ancients).
For the last time, because I don't think you'll be around much longer, the image shows pelasgian texts, the text compared to Albanian and the meaning in Albanian.......in short, you are more Albanian than you confess to be and you think that just by feeling Greek you're still Greek...hahahahahaha, go tell that to the first President and Vice President of your country after Ottoman succession, or is that part of the history that you fail to refer to due to the inconvenience of the truth?
So Homer the poet wrote in 800bc about things that happened in 1200bc.....I understand now, your nationalistic tendencies are based on the writings of a poet who wrote about something that happened 400 years earlier...great source, very reliable/factual/historically accurate.....if you're Greek of course...for the rest of the world it's poetry, entertaining and amusing. For Greeks it's documented history and proof of 4,000 years of continuity...get a grip you dellusional imbecile, if you can't trace your own history though your family back 100 years ago without accuracy, how the hell do you put any credibility on a poet writing about something that happened 400 years earlier????
Even with all our modern technology today we still can't say, with any absolute accuracy, what/how/why something happened 400 years ago, but I understand how you Greeks operate, claim everything and then let the rest of the world prove you wrong.....a definite sign of insecurity, stemming from an identity crisis due to reliance on mythology/poetry,indiscriminate interpretation and an unhealthy desire to be something you really are not...by desperately clinging to anything remotely that panders to your imaginations, and staying well clear of any truths that don't support your dellusions or disprove your 4,000 year continuity wet dream.......such as the Macedonian Minority in Greece.....living proof of your dellusions, which is why your government has gone to extremes to exterminate the language/culture/ethnicity/names and anything connected with them, because that would be an admission they exist. Wake the fuck up and stop living and using denial of what you don't like or agree with as a tool to prove you exist and have existed 4,000 years continually, or you could stay in your state of Greek denial and live in delusion...your choice, my task is to make you aware of these things, whether you take notice or acknowledge them is up to you ultimately - personally could't give a rat's arse what you do or choose, but don't think you can come to a Macedonian Truth Forum and start spreading greek bullshit and get away with it! To that end I wish you farewell and truly hope you find, recognise and accept the truth, for the truth will set you free from you mental Greek propoganda prison!

Yeah, whatever.

Are we clear about Homer? Is there anything else you would like to know about it?

[spitfire]

It`s his personal choice to identify as Macedonian, unlike his relative who has probably sold himself out and become a 'pure' Greek overnight.

What state was he referring to specifically when he said this? The Republic of Macedonia or Greece?

I have seen an interview with Voskopoulos on a TV station from the Republic of Macedonia. Surely if he was saying he doesn't want to get used by this state(Rep of Macedonia) he wouldn`t have made an appearance for an interview.

Congratulations on listening to his double standards. I gave you his interview and the precise moment when he talks about the condom. Go check it yourself. He talks about your state or any other state interfering.

[spitfire]

What is this Slavic idiom rubbish you are going on about? The language is Macedonian and is the same language that is spoken by the people of the Republic of Macedonia.

Bulgarians may understand some of it as their language is similar to Macedonian. However they wont understand all of it because this language being spoken is Macedonian, not Bulgarian.

It`s really quite simple.

Quite simpy, tell me the meaning of those words:
Agiasm, agonia, anarhia, angel, amnnesty, apokryf, aorist, aristokrat, atmosfera, Bivliotika, delfin, doma, dieta, etica, melodia, timian

Some words by them, there are others too. And also differences in grammar, yes even that very basic form that is hardly a grammar.
You see, everyone can say the same about it as you say about the Bulgarians.
Don't tell me you're that ignorant.