Republic of Macedonia's EU and NATO Strategies

[spitfire]

Spitfire you are a liar.THe original texts were NOT IN GREEK.THEY WERE IN Pelasgian .you are totally confused LIAR.Uploaded on Sep 23, 2009

Ancient Macedonian words in Homer's Iliad
In the Iliad and Odyssey, attributed to Homer, the great multitude of non-Greek people living around Olympus and further north in Europe were described as being as, Numerous as the leaves in the forests with chariots and weapons decorated with gleaming gold and silverlike gods.
The Pelazgian people are clearly described in Homeric poems as non-Greek, with their own language and traditions totally different from Greek. They inhabited the Balkan Peninsula (known by the names Macedonians, Thracians, Illyrians, etc.) and they spread throughout south-eastern Europe (under the common name Scythians).
What is most interesting about Homers stories, especially the Iliad, is that they were originally written in the prehistoric Macedonian language
The Ancient Macedonian language (provisional ISO-DIS 639-1,2 I 3 3.5 XMK) was the tongue of the ancient Macedonians. It was spoken especially in the inland regions of Macedon, away from the coast, during the 1st millennium BC, surviving into the early centuries of the Common Era
* "Who is Homer?"[1]
* "multiple or single authorship?"[2]
* "By whom, when, where, and under what circumstances were the poems composed?"[3]

To these questions the possibility of archaeological answers have added a few more:

* "How reliable is the tradition embodied in the Homeric poems?"[4]
* "How old are the oldest elements in Homeric poetry which can be dated with certainty?"

Now if we take all of this into consideration and observe Homer from the point of view of the oral tradition, which was handed down from antiquity to classical times when it was first recorded, we may say that the final product was a work of many authors who have retold the epic poem over and over again, over the centuries, adding to it words from various languages!
More evidence that gives credence to the existence of an ancient prehistoric Macedonian civilization comes to us from ancient literature. One such source that greatly influenced our impression of the ancients and inspired Alexander the king of Macedonia to seek adventure was Homer’s epic poems. About five hundred years after the Trojan Wars, Homer wrote the Iliad and the Odyssey. Homerâ's work captivated his audience with events that.
Homer was born in the 8th century B.C. and created true literary masterpieces that are enjoyed as much today, as they were in the days of Alexander the king of Macedonia. Originally, Homerâ's stories were folktales told and retold for millenniums until they were immortalized in print in the 6th century B.C."
Once again spitfire you are wrong.You try and lie your way here.The only TRUTH YOU HAVE TOLD is you should be banned by ADMIN.

Send my regards to doctor charlatanovsky for these.

Spitfire yoare a fool who beleives anything their govt tells them to beleive .You can't accept the word macedonia neither you or your govt.You call macedonia skopje or skopijan.Over 130 countries right around the world call the country not skopje but macedonia.Think about how the greeks have been deliberately telling the world that we are not macedonians we are just slavs.But let me tell you if we apply your logic.YOU TOO WOULD BE CLASSED AS SLAVS as the SLAVS went to HELLAS.The only people using the derogarotory comments is the greeks NO one elese.You are all simpletons and fools if you think you can pull over people's eyes.One country that you tried to pull the wool over the eyes is australia.You tried to say the macedonians in australia are not that but slavs and that their language was /is macedonian.This forced prefix is to do with votes not reality.Eventually it went to the court in victoria known as the slav prefix dispute.This is where the greeks tried to force the SLAV PREFIX on us.THEY LOST.
It was proved that ther was/is no such a thing as SLAV it was used in a drogotary manner.SPITFIRE YOUR LOT LOST.I wonder why you havent BEEN BANNED BY NOW.
YOU dob't make ANY SENSE you ARE a STOOGE for your govt.

My dear George, I don't understand your point. You have an australian court decided about what we discuss?
What did the Japanese say about it?

[George S.]

Spitfire you are still a fool .If you don't realise that there is no prize for second best.

Macedonians and the Political Mainstream



by Victor Bivell

This is the text of the speech delivered to the public meeting on Human Rights for Macedonian Australians held in Wollongong on June 6, 1994.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight.

There is no doubt that the Macedonian identity in Australia is now under attack in exactly the same way that it has been under attack in Greece since the partition of Macedonia in 1913.
Before 1913, our parents and grandparents referred to themselves simply as Macedonian. Since the partition, those Macedonians who suddenly found themselves in Greece have been called Bulgarians, Bulgarophones, bi-lingual Greeks, Yugoslav sympathizers, Slavophones, Slav Macedonians, Skopjians, and even "non-existent". This name changing, this inability to call a Macedonian a Macedonian, has been an important part of the Greek Government's ongoing policy of genocide through ethnic cleansing, denationalization, and assimilation.
Among the many tragedies is the fact that for the past 80 years, the rest of the world has known very little about the real events in Greece. Fortunately, this is now changing. In the past 12 months, for example, all of the world's major international human rights bodies have published reports that are highly critical of the way Greece denies basic human rights to the Macedonian minority.
These bodies include: Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, the British Section of the International Society for Human Rights, the Danish Helsinki Committee, and the US State Department. A growing list of influential publications such as the Times, The Economist and The Independent have also written on the subject. The latest report from Human Rights Watch, published in April, is called Denying Ethnic Identity: The Macedonians of Greece.
It is events such as these that are helping Europe to see through the deliberate veil of Greek secrecy. Unfortunately, the level of awareness in Australia is far less, and this may help explain why we suddenly find ourselves fighting the same battle that our fellow Macedonians in Greece have been fighting for decades.
There is evidence that the Greek lobby in Australia has been trying to initiate the use of the 'Slav' prefix in Australia since at least 1991.

However the first real advance came on March 10 when the Greek lobby met with the Prime Minister, Foreign Minister and Ethnic Affairs Minister and sewed up the "slav prefix" deal. The Labor Government caved in on this for no reason other than the promise it would retain the Greek vote. The attempt to change generations of inherited identity with the stroke of a bureaucratic pen is simply unprecedented. From the outset it was clear that this is one of the most arrogant and dictatorial acts by an Australian government in recent years.
The prefix and the way it was introduced are unanimously rejected by all Macedonians, and all of us want to know how we can reverse this directive as quickly as possible.
If I could briefly touch on some of our options.
* The best weapon in history is still the pen, even if it is now called a typewriter or a computer. It is only through a continuous supply of words, letters, articles and reports that the rest of Australia will learn how we feel about this prefix and why it must be changed.
* Peaceful civil disobedience is also an option. The prefix applies to country of birth and nationality data. If you tell a public servant that you are Macedonian, he or she has been instructed to write "slav-Macedonian" instead - you tell someone your name is Bill, and they write down Harry. If you see this happen, or suspect it will happen, you have the right to insist that they write "Macedonian". Senator Evans has confirmed that public servants have the right of conscientious objection to the prefix. Many public servants are opposed to this directive and if we remind them that they are entitled to object, they may do so. However, if they insist on writing "Slav", then insist that they write nothing, or tell them to write "Slav-Greek."
* If an organization or employer, including the public service, begins to use the prefix, it is our right to complain to that organization. Complaints can also be taken to bodies such as the Anti-Discrimination Board and the Human Rights and Equal Opportunities Commission.
It is worth knowing that the Greek community complains by the truck load. While the Press Council, Broadcasting Tribunal and other bodies receive hundreds of complaints from Greeks over the slightest incident or phrase, they rarely receive a complaint from a Macedonian.
Only last week the Greek lobby in Perth complained to a radio station about the local Macedonian program. What did the Macedonians do wrong? They had read out an article from The Age newspaper. The article in question was about the lack of human rights in Greece.
* Demonstrations are now being planned around Australia. Of course these can be a two edged sword. There is a high level of emotion in the Macedonian community that needs to be expressed, so it is very important to keep all demonstrations peaceful. It's not that we don't have a right to be angry: we do and we are. But that anger has to be expressed in a way that it acceptable to the rest of Australia, and in a way that does not give political free kicks to our opponents.
I can't emphasize this too much. If a demonstration is not peaceful, it is easy to lose public support.
And as we have seen previously, the Federal Minister for Immmigration and Ethnic Affairs, Senator Bolkus is more than able to cynically turn a so called "incident' to his own advantage.
Instead of being perceived as the aggressor, he has now twice tried to paint the Macedonians of Wollongong as the aggressors. Well, that's politics, unfortunately.
But amid the headlines, the real point of the demonstration in Wollongong was lost. That is: having sampled the strength of feeling and opposition, Senator Bolkus chose not to delay or withdraw the directive, but to push ahead with its implementation. The only conclusion that Macedonians can draw is that Mr Bolkus has a more important agenda than maintaining the peaceful status quo in Australia.
By implementing the directive rather than simply talking about it, Senator Bolkus has irresponsibly and shamelessly escalated the situation.
Yet his fellow parliamentarians, the media, and others have been more concerned with the "incidents" at the demonstration rather than with this incredible behaviour. Senator Bolkus has used exaggeration and sympathy to deflect attention from the fact that it is the directive itself, sponsored by him, that is the real issue and the cause of the emotion in the first place.
The extent to which ethnic affairs has been politicized in this country is now appalling. Two months ago we asked for the withdrawal of the directive as a goodwill gesture. That goodwill gesture has not been given.
Instead, Senator Bolkus has pushed ahead with its introduction. The NSW Minister for Ethnic Affairs, Mr Photios, has pushed ahead with its introduction. The Victorian Minister for Ethnic Affairs, Jeff Kennett, who is also the Premier, has openly supported the Greek position. This bi-partisan politicization of ethnic affairs by the ethnic affairs ministers is a scandal. But does any one care?
We are entitled to ask: if we live in a multicultural country, why are the top positions in the ethnic bureaucracy dominated by one ethnic group?
This is important because if we look at where the impetus to introduce this prefix is coming from, we see it is coming from Greek members of the Australian community. From the Federal Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, which is run by a Minister of Greek decent, from the NSW Dept of Multicultural and Ethnic Affairs, which is run by a Minister of Greek descent, from the NSW Ethnic Communities' Council, which has some 13 Greek members out of 26 on the management committee; and from the Canterbury Council in Sydney, which has a number of Greek councillors.
This is a very dangerous development for Australia, yet the very people who should be resisting this, the ethnic affairs ministers, are themselves the chief players.
The issue at the core of this sell-out is not who is right or wrong, but who is electorally stronger, who has more votes to sell. That is why we are now fighting the Federal Labor Government, the Federal Opposition, the NSW Liberal Government, and the Victorian Liberal Government. Each of these is more concerned with retaining or winning the Greek vote than with being fair or evenhanded. This is what I call a Greek auction. Labor and Liberal have been led to believe that whoever kicks the Macedonians the hardest will win the Greek vote.
This is despicable. And it is for this reason that Macedonians around Australia have begun to join the political parties and become politically active.
I have to say that when I heard that 300 Macedonians from Wollongong had joined the Labor party, it was music to my ears. Apart from the prefix itself, I think this is potentially the most significant development for the Macedonian community in Australia in many decades.
It is true that Macedonians are proportionally under represented in parliament, in the political parties, in local councils, semi government bodies etc. This is our own fault, and if we are to remain in Australia, this must change. That is why our best long term means of defence is to join the political parties, Labor and Liberal, it doesn't matter which one, and as soon as possible to gain our own voice in parliament.
I think that the Macedonians in Wollongong have distinguished themselves by seeing the need for this much sooner than other Macedonian communities in Australia.
I urge you to keep this up over the coming months and years. Do not stop. If you do this well, I believe you will become a role model for other Macedonian communities around Australia. We need at least one politically successful Macedonian community to help wake up the other communities - to show them how it is done, and that it can be done. This is the only way we will have a say in the political decisions that affect us.
So to sum up I would like to say: good luck.

[spitfire]

Do the communities still fight each other in Australia George? Do they meet and punch each other?

Yeap, it's hard being oceans away. But it's good it stays oceans away.
Well George good luck with your anger management. All these seem ridiculous to us here.

[George S.]

YEah its all caused and perpetrated by your govt.It's financed and encouraged by people like you.What makes you think we are into anger management if you are silly to say that nothing needs to be said.It should be obvious to you how wrong you are.It should be obvious how your govt has acted to destroy the macedonian nation.If there are no macedonians then they can appropriate the name,the symbols.They have tried to discredit us.How wrong they are.We are winning over 131 countries recognize macedonia.Macedonia is a country the sooner you and your govt recognizes the better.WE are winning.The northern greece,the province of macedonia you stole from the macedonians of whom you say don't exist.Is just a province.Think about it OCCupied by military force means you stole.Saying the MACEDONIANS DONT EXIST IS A LIE.We do EXIST.THIs FORUM prove we are in EXISTENCE whether you like it or NOT.

[George S.]

And another thing is YOU STILL HAVENT ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS.YOu know they may be TOO hard to decide on you simply ignored them and skirted around.That is unforgivable you are more of a fool than you look.You are wasting our time and your time on this forum.

[spitfire]

YEah its all caused and perpetrated by your govt.It's financed and encouraged by people like you.What makes you think we are into anger management if you are silly to say that nothing needs to be said.It should be obvious to you how wrong you are.It should be obvious how your govt has acted to destroy the macedonian nation.If there are no macedonians then they can appropriate the name,the symbols.They have tried to discredit us.How wrong they are.We are winning over 131 countries recognize macedonia.Macedonia is a country the sooner you and your govt recognizes the better.WE are winning.The northern greece,the province of macedonia you stole from the macedonians of whom you say don't exist.Is just a province.Think about it OCCupied by military force means you stole.Saying the MACEDONIANS DONT EXIST IS A LIE.We do EXIST.THIs FORUM prove we are in EXISTENCE whether you like it or NOT.

You exist? No shit! That's very good to know. How didn't I think of that?
You got me there George... .

And another thing is YOU STILL HAVENT ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS.YOu know they may be TOO hard to decide on you simply ignored them and skirted around.That is unforgivable you are more of a fool than you look.You are wasting our time and your time on this forum.

Put them in order, present them and we can discuss each one.

[Amphipolis]

And here's the interview of Voskopoulos where he said about the condom.
He also speaks about the matter with a very different approach than yours.

It's in greek.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA_M62Onwlc

That seems interesting, but it's 1,5 hour. Do you remember in which minute the condom comment is made?

[vicsinad]

A message for Spitfire from Britain:

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite1_1_11/06/2014_540472

Former UK Conservative Party MP Louise Mensch launched a brief tirade against Greece via Twitter on Wednesday, labeling the country "racist."

Quoting a recent study by the Anti-Defamation League, which focussed on anti-semitism in Greece and other countries, Mensch, who quit Parliament in 2012 to pursue her career as an author wrote: "F*** you, Greece. Nasty things happening to nasty people. 69% of country are racists."

The survey, which was published last month, indicated that 69 percent of Greeks "harbor anti-semitic attitudes."

Add anti-Turk, anti-Macedonian and anti-everything-not-Greek to that list.

[Amphipolis]

A message for Spitfire from Britain:

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite1_1_11/06/2014_540472

Add anti-Turk, anti-Macedonian and anti-everything-not-Greek to that list.

Details can be found here:

http://global100.adl.org/#country/greece

[spitfire]

That seems interesting, but it's 1,5 hour. Do you remember in which minute the condom comment is made?

28:30.

Watch it from the 27th minute. He explains why the state of macedonia has no say in this.

[spitfire]

A message for Spitfire from Britain:

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite1_1_11/06/2014_540472

Add anti-Turk, anti-Macedonian and anti-everything-not-Greek to that list.

A message from spitfire to any dickhead.

The Central Israelitic Council is legally recognized as a part of the Greek state.

The Greeks protected the Jews against the Nazi prosecutions during WWII.

Greece accepted 1/3 of the population of a neighboring country and offered them jobs and prosperity.

How dare you call us racist?

[vicsinad]

A message from spitfire to any dickhead.

The Central Israelitic Council is legally recognized as a part of the Greek state.

The Greeks protected the Jews against the Nazi prosecutions during WWII.

Greece accepted 1/3 of the population of a neighboring country and offered them jobs and prosperity.

How dare you call us racist?

The above is how your average Greek reacts when confronted with facts.

[spitfire]

The above is how your average Greek reacts when confronted with facts.

You call a survey a fact?

No surprise. You have said Homer wrote in pelasgian too.

You are pathetic. Especially when you prove how short your memory is.
You are a disgrace.
Above all respect the jew population of Thessaloniki and their suffering in WWII.

How dare you? How dare you?

[vicsinad]

You call a survey a fact?

The fact is that a survey was taken and in Greece 69% of respondents weren't too fond of Jewish people.

No surprise. You have said Homer wrote in pelasgian too.

So you are a Greek that can't get his facts straight. When did I ever say or write that Homer wrote in pelasgian?

How dare you? How dare you?

I just did.

[spitfire]

The fact is that a survey was taken and in Greece 69% of respondents weren't too fond of Jewish people.

So you are a Greek that can't get his facts straight. When did I ever say or write that Homer wrote in pelasgian?

I just did.

What a waste of mind.