Republic of Macedonia's EU and NATO Strategies

[spitfire]

You need to stop being a Greek "hater" and think a little bit more about what you are saying. You fatally equate "slavonic" with "slav". I have rarely seen the term "slavonic" used in any way other than to give an indication of language. Whilst the words seem to be interchangeable on some levels, there is definitely more of a language connection with "slavonic".

Which means what? Should I ask Tchaikovsky whom the slavonic march is about?

Which people/ethnicity do you want to categorise the Macedonians as, or are they all just "slavs" to you? I guess all humans can be lumped into one category as well .... except the Greeks of course.

I think I look like a slav more and more nowadays ... if only I knew what one looks like. Especially because not a single pathetically insecure Greek has ever tried to define it.

Let me know when you get it.

You still don't get it. The data presented thus far in order to support the argument that a number of more than a million of macedonians were before the population exchange that altered the demographics of macedonia (greek part) are not substantiated because those figures according to the same sources speak about slavs and Bulgarians. Phew! No commas but you get the point.

[spitfire]

You should update the song for your persuasions.

So did you mean Romaioi or did you mean Romioi? I want to know what to rhyme it with... .

[Dejan]

Macedonians, not macedonians.

[spitfire]

Risto you reminded me of another song from the "prior to purification" era.
This one explains Romioi. It is in the pontiac dialect, completely undestandable today (as usual).

Ν’ αϊλί εμάς και βάι εμάς
οι Τούρκι την Πόλ’ επαίραν
επαίραν το βασιλοσκάμ’
κι ελάεν η Αφεντία.

Μοιρολογούν τα εκκλησιάς
κλαίγνε τα μοναστήρα
κι ο Αι Γιάννες ο Χρυσόστομον
κλαίει και δερνοκοπάται

Μη κλαις, μη κλαις, Αγιάννε μου
και μη δερνοκοπάσαι
η Ρωμανία ’πέρασεν
η Ρωμανία ’πάρθεν

Η Ρωμανία κι αν ’πέρασεν
ανθεί και φέρει κι άλλο.

Hint: No it's not about Romania (the country). It's about what was left of the Eastern Roman Empire when it fell, Constantinople. That which gave the term Romioi for the christian greeks as the term greek (Έλληνας) at that time meant the idol worshiper, or the non christian.

How is this song understandable, since it's not purified through Katharevousa?
Well, that's the hole in Risto's argument.

[Philosopher]

Not quite. Except the "semantics" (Macedonians Slavs) there is also the Bulgarian characteristics.

What do you believe these Bulgarian characteristics are Spitfire? And by the way, the BFO does not describe the people Bulgarian in characteristics; only the 1911 encyclopedia does.

In order to presume a macedonian population you should deduct those with Bulgarian characteristics and call the rest macedonians. Therefore you end with a very small number (if any) that is not giving any credibility to your argument about the huge number of macedonians.

In both the BFO and the 1911 encyclopedia, Macedonians are the majority. The only difference is that in the 1911 encyclopedia, a Slavonic speaking people were nameless, and the ignorant writers of the encyclopedia assumed the people were Bulgarian in characteristics.

I hope you see the leap in logic with the numbers you claimed.

I'm a bit puzzled by you. Unlike your countrymen, you have no problem with calling us Macedonians and respecting our self-determination. And yet you seem very against the idea that Greeks were a very small minority in Macedonia, and that Macedonians were the majority.

It seems to me that you believe our Macedonian identity, which you accept, is artificial and recent. That is the only conclusion I can draw from your comments.

[makedonche]

Spitfire

What is this you are showing me makedonche?

There's that denial showing it's ugly head again! You carry on about pelasgian texts....like a pork chop.......and when I post you some texts you ask me this? If shit for brains was a measure of intelligence, you'd be a genius!

I am reffering to your wet dream about Homer writing in pelasgian and through that, that he is connected to your language.

And I quoted Homer when????? How do extract that this is my wet dream? Ohhhh......sorry I forgot about your ability to invent history or rewrite it to back up your dilusions........spare me!

You really can't read can you?

I can't really really read ????? Once again spare me your drug induced opinions, and learn how to spell, or at least how to use spellcheck, then go and get some lessons in comprehension...or is that too English for you and not Greek or Albanian enough! BTW are you Albanian or not?

[Risto the Great]

Which means what? Should I ask Tchaikovsky whom the slavonic march is about?

Marche Slave was about the Serbs and Russians. Did you get that from the title? Pretty confusing for you I would imagine.

So, what it means is that when you say "slavonic" it is different to "slav" and, in any case, that neither term is indicative of ethnicity. I repeat, stop being a Greek "hater".

You still don't get it. The data presented thus far in order to support the argument that a number of more than a million of macedonians were before the population exchange that altered the demographics of macedonia (greek part) are not substantiated because those figures according to the same sources speak about slavs and Bulgarians. Phew! No commas but you get the point.

I actually do not get the point. I saw something that said "Bulgarians in characteristic". I didn't see "Bulgarians". I would need to know what they mean by "Bulgarians" (e.g. because we had Serbs describing themselves as Bulgarians back then) and I would need to know what "characteristics" (e.g. subscribing to the Exarchate) they were referring to.

Actually, I don't really need to know. The ones fighting for an independent Macedonia were Macedonians. The ones who embraced the Macedonian freedom fighters were Macedonians. The ones who didn't were Macedonians.

But most of the ones who remained became pure Greeks.

[Nikolaj]

Spitfire I really love how you use self-determination as a factor when explaining Alexander I's Greek descent claim and then not allow self-determination to be a factor in this context. Like Philosopher said, we cannot control what ignorant Westerns call us, but we know what we are.

I also love how you think you cannot separate Macedonian Slavs from Macedonian but then believe you can separate Macedonian Slavs from Slavs. Then referring to Bulgarian characteristics as if it means anything when it directly links to distinctiveness.

I am not going to let your claim that I was being selective go to rest. While I do not do it at all and here you are selecting away. Well, mainly because it's amusing.

[Risto the Great]

Risto you reminded me of another song from the "prior to purification" era.
This one explains Romioi. It is in the pontiac dialect, completely undestandable today (as usual).

I understand the Pontiac dialect. We used to have a Transam.
But normal Greeks don't kid themselves and say they can understand the Pontians easily. And if they do, it is because of the catharsis which re-introduced ancient words into your modern Greek language (as admitted by most except you). And ... they still don't understand them easily. Stop lying.

[Risto the Great]

So did you mean Romaioi or did you mean Romioi? I want to know what to rhyme it with... .

Whatever rhymes with "arse" I would imagine.

[spitfire]

Marche Slave was about the Serbs and Russians. Did you get that from the title? Pretty confusing for you I would imagine.

So, what it means is that when you say "slavonic" it is different to "slav" and, in any case, that neither term is indicative of ethnicity. I repeat, stop being a Greek "hater".

No, slavonic and slav refers to the same thing. Very general term though.
It was published as slavonic, later became known as slav. So it is about slavs isn't it?
Don't fool yoursfelf, these words are related. Just like Romaioi and Romioi.

I actually do not get the point. I saw something that said "Bulgarians in characteristic". I didn't see "Bulgarians". I would need to know what they mean by "Bulgarians" (e.g. because we had Serbs describing themselves as Bulgarians back then) and I would need to know what "characteristics" (e.g. subscribing to the Exarchate) they were referring to.

Actually, I don't really need to know. The ones fighting for an independent Macedonia were Macedonians. The ones who embraced the Macedonian freedom fighters were Macedonians. The ones who didn't were Macedonians.

But most of the ones who remained became pure Greeks.

Actually the point is not about ethnicity, but about the numbers. And integrity within a conversation.

[spitfire]

I understand the Pontiac dialect. We used to have a Transam.
But normal Greeks don't kid themselves and say they can understand the Pontians easily. And if they do, it is because of the catharsis which re-introduced ancient words into your modern Greek language (as admitted by most except you). And ... they still don't understand them easily. Stop lying.

You have a... puncture in your argument.

You decided on your own that because modern greek is related to every type of greek, the other types of greek are not related to each other.
This cannot happen, and on the contrary it proves the continuity of the language.
QED.

[spitfire]

Spitfire I really love how you use self-determination as a factor when explaining Alexander I's Greek descent claim and then not allow self-determination to be a factor in this context. Like Philosopher said, we cannot control what ignorant Westerns call us, but we know what we are.

I also love how you think you cannot separate Macedonian Slavs from Macedonian but then believe you can separate Macedonian Slavs from Slavs. Then referring to Bulgarian characteristics as if it means anything when it directly links to distinctiveness.

I am not going to let your claim that I was being selective go to rest. While I do not do it at all and here you are selecting away. Well, mainly because it's amusing.

You do? Thank you very much.

Show me where those data speak about self determination when they refer to slavs and Bulgarian characteristics.

[spitfire]

Spitfire



There's that denial showing it's ugly head again! You carry on about pelasgian texts....like a pork chop.......and when I post you some texts you ask me this? If shit for brains was a measure of intelligence, you'd be a genius!



And I quoted Homer when????? How do extract that this is my wet dream? Ohhhh......sorry I forgot about your ability to invent history or rewrite it to back up your dilusions........spare me!



I can't really really read ????? Once again spare me your drug induced opinions, and learn how to spell, or at least how to use spellcheck, then go and get some lessons in comprehension...or is that too English for you and not Greek or Albanian enough! BTW are you Albanian or not?

I will have to ask you again. What did you show me with that?

I'm tired of you dodging the questions. Answer once if can about the context of the conversation.

[spitfire]

It seems to me that you believe our Macedonian identity, which you accept, is artificial and recent. That is the only conclusion I can draw from your comments.

I'll explain. You understood the leap in logic with your other assumption so I will stick to that.
I cannot deny your macedonian identity, because macedonian identity is about a lot of things. Ethnicity is an istance acquired within your life span.