Republic of Macedonia's EU and NATO Strategies

[spitfire]

You should really think about how you depart from Golden Dawn in your thinking. How dare you deny existence of a Macedonian minority in Greece.

Here is a tip. There is a Macedonian minority in Greece. And if you are a Greek pretending to be sincere with them, they will still tell you whatever they think will put a smile on your face.

Macedonians treated like royalty in Greece? Maybe like Russian Tzars during the Russian revolution.

Such a blind typical Greek.

FYI minorities are something that requires recognition. We have recognised minorities in greece, but not a macedonian one.
If I'm missing one, show me the treaty signed by the UN and the countries involved that says there is. Otherwise just stop imagining slavophones as a minority.
You 'd wish but there's not going to be one. And in fact, in the words of the leader of the rainbow party, they will not let themselves be used, because they know what happens to condoms (he actually said that).

So take your golden dawn out of your head first and then conclude who is and who is not a fascist. And don't think for an instant that you talk to an ignorant. I have much more knowing on these matters than you will ever have.
Comprendes?

Everything is Greek re megale .... we know.

... I would contend the educated people you speak of are not representative of the language of the people back then. But it is now. I have said it many times already.

No, re megale, everything is not greek, but what is greek is greek. OK megale? And it is not for free re megale. It comes at a price, antroua tis fakis.

Nothing like what Romioi self identified as. Stop being a Greek "hater". And why don't you define a slav? While you are at it, explain whether it is a title for a specific ethnicity.

C'mon Spitfire, rise above the golden dawn and be less Greek and more thoughtful about this.

Have you decided yet? Which is it? Romioi or Romaioi. Slav is an identifier. Go to the encyclopedia haters and ask them. In the meantime don't take for granted half of what they say. Is that how you build your case? With half the facts?
Identify me as a Roman. I don't give a damn! It's you who doesn't like the slav identifier though.

[spitfire]

Ῥέων ὁ χρόνος ἀκάθεκτα καὶ ἀεί τι κινούμενος παρασύρει καὶ παραφέρει πάντα τὰ ἐν γενέσει καὶ ἐς βυθὸν ἀφανείας καταποντοῖ ὅπου μὲν οὐκ ἄξια λόγου πράγματα, ὅπου δὲ μεγάλα τε καὶ ἄξια μνήμης, καὶ τά τε ἄδηλα φύων κατὰ τὴν τραγῳδίαν καὶ τὰ φανέντα ἀποκρυπτόμενος.
Ἀλλ' ὅγε λόγος ὁ τῆς ἱστορίας ἔρυμα καρτερώτατον γίνεται τῷ τοῦ χρόνου ῥεύματι καὶ ἵστησι τρόπον τινὰ τὴν ἀκάθεκτον τούτου ῥοὴν καὶ τὰ ἐν αὐτῷ γινόμενα πάντα, ὁπόσα ὑπερείληφε, ξυνέχει καὶ περισφίγγει καὶ οὐκ ἐᾷ διολισθαίνειν εἰς λήθης βυθούς.

How true! Excellent. Thanks for this. I wasn't aware of that. Both in context and in writing a living proof of how the important things stay.

[makedonche]

I will have to ask you again. What did you show me with that?

I'm tired of you dodging the questions. Answer once if can about the context of the conversation.

Spitfire
You're tired because of your own lack of understanding! Once again, the answer to your question is, I showed you pelasgian texts, which you have been carrying on about for some time, is that clear? In the context of the conversation, you have been throwing pelasgian texts around as some sort of proof of something, what I showed you is the transliteration of pelasgian into Albanian, hence the question are you Albanian, with all your references to pelasgian texts, is this easier for you to understand?

[George S.]

"""There is no minority of macedonians in Greece. Do you understand how a minority is considered? Look at the muslim minority in Thrace. They have all the rights of greek citizenship, and some more, and even some more in violation of the treaty. The govt. simply doesn't want this to take extend. Otherwise, some extravagant rights should be abandoned.
We treat minorities like royalty. But there has to be one in the first place.""This is rubbishHow can you consider a minority when the minority can't even speak their language or can't even identify itself.Greeks are just liars lying they took macedonian lads did all sorts of crazy things to make it There ARE NO MACEDONIANS sounds familiar??They are hiding there are much more macedonian people that the greek govt is allowing.Remember their homogenous claim,that was bullshit.The whole state is propped up by non greeks.There is no greeks in greece.You are probably a turk spitfire.
As i said you are just trying to justify the actions of your govt.Remember helsinki human rights wach.They found that there are macedonians in northern greece quite a sizable population.The greek govt HAS ONE OF THE WORST HUMAN RIGHTS RECORDS ON THE FACE OF THIS EARTH.SPITFIRE YOU ARE A LIAR YOUR GREEK GOVT IS A LIAR AS WELL.
I hope you get this by now if you don't you are a zombie,a moron,a denier of the truth .

[George S.]

""Such a blind typical Greek." You are stupid no brains at all even the CIA has writtena dosier that there are macedonians in northern greece.The greeks are tyrants and the oppressors.The macedonians are not afforded their rights.Think about the BIG LIE that there are NO macedonians.You got to be stupid to beleive that.The first thing you notice when you go to the aegean area is most of the population is macedonian.So spitfire you ought to be awarded the moron of the year because you fail to see the real truth your govt is hiding from the truth that there are macedonians in northern greece.The fact that they took the aegean area by military force.So spitfire you win the stupidity award.

[George S.]

One thing spitfire the greeks aren't sure on their own identity they have referred themselves to many names over the years.Romaoi is romans how stupid is that.THey were known as achaens,hellenes,greeks etc they don't know who or what they are even macedonian.How crazy is that.The greek race cannot be another race.The speaking of another language does not make you that countryman least of all macedonians can only be greek if they are forced or whatever measures the greek govt can force on people.

[Risto the Great]

FYI minorities are something that requires recognition. We have recognised minorities in greece, but not a macedonian one.
If I'm missing one, show me the treaty signed by the UN and the countries involved that says there is. Otherwise just stop imagining slavophones as a minority.
You 'd wish but there's not going to be one. And in fact, in the words of the leader of the rainbow party, they will not let themselves be used, because they know what happens to condoms (he actually said that).

So take your golden dawn out of your head first and then conclude who is and who is not a fascist. And don't think for an instant that you talk to an ignorant. I have much more knowing on these matters than you will ever have.
Comprendes?

Let me be the first to shove your "slavophone" terminology up your arse. You have no knowledge whatsoever if you deny the existence of the Macedonian minority in Greece. It clearly shows you are no different to the peasants from Greece in Australia who used to say there was no such thing as Macedonians until the 1990's.

No, re megale, everything is not greek, but what is greek is greek. OK megale? And it is not for free re megale. It comes at a price, antroua tis fakis.

Relax re megale. Everything is Greek. From the Byzantine empire through to the Arnauti who used to follow us Macedonians around with video cameras to send the footage to Greece for money. All Greek re megale, I know.

Have you decided yet? Which is it? Romioi or Romaioi. Slav is an identifier. Go to the encyclopedia haters and ask them. In the meantime don't take for granted half of what they say. Is that how you build your case? With half the facts?
Identify me as a Roman. I don't give a damn! It's you who doesn't like the slav identifier though.

You're such a hateful Greek. You can't tell me what a slav is, but I can tell you who the Romioi were.

"Slav" is/was never an ethnic identifier, but Romioi was. Got it?

But you will continue your debate at "peasant level" and hope that you still might come across as intelligent.

Is there a "slav" ethnicity? Where?

C'mon megale, hit me up with the good stuff.

[George S.]

Spitfire so much to deny as i said to you if you got say solun you will notice the existence of a macedonian monority.Also how about independent reprts from the helsinki watch saying macedonians exist.HOW ABOUT THE MACEDONIANS THAT WENT TO THE EU court and WON AGAINST THE GOVT.I HAVE LOST count personnaly of the people who to all intents and purpose look like they are greek but they were forced to learn greek,get greek passports,attend greek schools etc etc But deep down they say they are MACEDONIANS.Comon spitfire stop protecting your facist nazi govt I don't just mean golden dawn.Your govt is not as innocent as it looks.If you think that i'm making it up just take a look at google street view and you will see the macedonian existence.
Also if there are no macedonians then how come there is a class action for damages and property in the eu court and macedonians are winning.You are just delusional for words.

[Stojacanec]

Spitfire, you have an uncanny knack of classifying everything Macedonian as recent and everything greek as archaic.

It is understood and agreed that Macedonia has formed its own independent country in 91 also the language was formalised mid 20th century.

Rather the Bulgarian language was formalised 100 years earlier. It has been noted that a Macedonian language tried to be formalised around the same time as the Bulgarian one being around 1860's.

Imagine if they were successful with formalising the Macedonian language then.

Seems like the success or failures and timing of these events is very important to the new greeks as to what constitutes a Macedonian.

[makedonche]

Here is part I:



Here is part II:



Here is part III:



Not too bad for a cursory search.



Here is your previous statement on this:



This sure sounds like you are stating I support EU and NATO membership at the cost of Macedonian identity.



I'm not Greek Macedonian, nor have I ever called myself Greek Macedonian. Why don't you ask the Greeks on this forum if they think I am Greek Macedonian? You have serious mental issues.



Vangelovski asked you the following question:



You responded with:



So you affirm your Macedonian purity. Here is another:



When you couple these answers along with your other purity comments, it is obvious.



Makendonche, you are a complete idiot.

http://phys.org/news/2013-08-dna-earth.html

And

http://www.universityworldnews.com/article.php?story=20130604161354244

Checkmate Makendonche, checkmate.

Philosopher
You didn't think I was going to let this go did you?

Here is part I:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makendonche
You can call yourself whatever you like....except don't try and be Macedonian.....unless both your parents are Macedonian! Which part don't you understand? If you are half of one and half another, don't bother calling yourself Macedonian, simple enough for you?

Point out the relevant part that actually says "Macedonian Purity"......oh you can't!...go back to playing chess!

Here is part II:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makendonche
I get it crystal clear, what Philosopher fails to grasp is that every time you dilute the Macedonian identity, either through genetics or self identification as half or part Macedonian or Greek Macedonian or Macedonian Greek, you feed the Greeks all the ammunition they need to use against you, understand?

Once again, where exactly does it say "Macedonian Purity", as you claim? You may want to check the dictionary for defamation while you're at it!

Here is part III:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makendonche
Personally if you are half Macedonian and half something else, in my eyes you're not Macedonian - if you wish to identify as Macedonian..feel free
Not too bad for a cursory search.

Not bad for a cursory search? In your little dream world maybe...where exactly are the words "Macedonian Purity" again...????...oh they're not there!...try a more detailed search and skip the cursory stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makendonche
Now I am convinced you have comprehension difficulties, similar to Spitfire, obviously made from the same cloth.......once again please post the exact quote, don't go inventing anything like your Greek friend!

You are yet to convince me this still doesn't apply!

Here is your previous statement on this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makendonche
Thank you for disclosing your level of intelligence, if you read your own comments in the context of this thread and what Macedonia would have to sacrifice to get into the EU & NATO and how idiotic your comments are in relation to Macedonia and Macedonians and their identity, you will eventually discover where the stupidity lays!
This sure sounds like you are stating I support EU and NATO membership at the cost of Macedonian identity.

Here we go again, inventing quotes! It actually states that if you go around calling yourself Greek Macedonian or Macedonian Greek or suggest that they exist, on a public forum, then you lend weight to the Greek argument regarding the name issue - directly relating to Macedonian identity- when you lend weight to the greek argument it enables them to point to your comments and say "look see what they are saying about themselves", thus strengthening the Greek argument and enabling them to continue to prevent Macedonia, by veto, from entering Nato or EU! It doesn't state you support EU or NATO membership at any cost!...understand the difference?

The problem is that, historically speaking, Macedonians and Greeks were two separate ethnic groups. So the only way one can be a Greek Macedonian is if a person was both Greek and Macedonian.

Greeks living in historic Macedonia are not Macedonians. They are Greeks.

And this....

Third, to be an ethnic Macedonian, one must descend from ethnic Macedonians. In this context, it matters nothing how many generations are involved. If a child is mixed, say a Greek mother, and a Macedonian father, I would say the child is both ethnic Greek and ethnic Macedonian.

and more.....

You are misinterpreting my words.

Let me clarify. If my mother is Italian, and my father is Macedonian, what does that make me? It makes me both ethnic Italian and Macedonian.

So in the same sense, if my mother is an ethnic Greek, and my father is an ethnic Macedonian, this would make me both Macedonian and Greek.

Is that enough information for you in order to see that you dilute the Macedonian identity with this type of commentary?
It looks like you're a few rooks short of a chess set!

[spitfire]

Let me be the first to shove your "slavophone" terminology up your arse. You have no knowledge whatsoever if you deny the existence of the Macedonian minority in Greece. It clearly shows you are no different to the peasants from Greece in Australia who used to say there was no such thing as Macedonians until the 1990's.

No megale, this is irredentism and a straight violation of another country's internal afairs.
It is so unsubstantiated when you use the word minority, that I can claim a greek minority in macedonia too.
Those who cross the border to go for shopping in the weekends.

There is no macedonian minority in Greece. Go ask those billinguals what their nationality is. It's that simple.

Relax re megale. Everything is Greek. From the Byzantine empire through to the Arnauti who used to follow us Macedonians around with video cameras to send the footage to Greece for money. All Greek re megale, I know.

I am relaxed re file. What makes you think I'm not?
What is this story again with the arnauti?

You're such a hateful Greek. You can't tell me what a slav is, but I can tell you who the Romioi were.

"Slav" is/was never an ethnic identifier, but Romioi was. Got it?

But you will continue your debate at "peasant level" and hope that you still might come across as intelligent.

Is there a "slav" ethnicity? Where?

C'mon megale, hit me up with the good stuff.

It's not my purpose to hit you with anything. I have everything recorded in my history. On the other hand you don't.
I don't care what you are really. In fact you could regard yourself as whatever you want.
My point is that you can't build a case based on evidence, and hide two thirds of that evidence on the way of building a case.

[spitfire]

Spitfire
You're tired because of your own lack of understanding! Once again, the answer to your question is, I showed you pelasgian texts, which you have been carrying on about for some time, is that clear? In the context of the conversation, you have been throwing pelasgian texts around as some sort of proof of something, what I showed you is the transliteration of pelasgian into Albanian, hence the question are you Albanian, with all your references to pelasgian texts, is this easier for you to understand?

You provided pelasgian texts (they are not texts) transliterated into something else, in order to prove what?
That you can transliterate words?

And this helps the conversation? I see.

[spitfire]

Spitfire, you have an uncanny knack of classifying everything Macedonian as recent and everything greek as archaic.

It is understood and agreed that Macedonia has formed its own independent country in 91 also the language was formalised mid 20th century.

Rather the Bulgarian language was formalised 100 years earlier. It has been noted that a Macedonian language tried to be formalised around the same time as the Bulgarian one being around 1860's.

Imagine if they were successful with formalising the Macedonian language then.

Seems like the success or failures and timing of these events is very important to the new greeks as to what constitutes a Macedonian.

I'm not very far from this point of view. Except the "uncunny knack" everything else looks just fine.

My thinking and thus the acceptance of a macedonian identity consist in the whole history of macedonia. Past and present.
This is a completely different view from the greek gvt's view if you ask me.

[sydney]

There is no macedonian minority in Greece. Go ask those billinguals what their nationality is. It's that simple.

Are there any minorities in Greece?

[spitfire]

Are there any minorities in Greece?

The muslim minority in western Thrace.