Well put Bill it is what I have been trying to say this whole time!
Bosnia: Politics and Current Events
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Originally posted by Onur View PostDo you know why we always have this pattern? Because Bosnians didn't say something like "we gonna muslimize all Yugoslavia and get the revenge of Serbian regime" or it wasn't the Croats who fought for "Greater Croatia".
Are you sure about this? Bosnians (although they only accounted for 44 per cent of the population) wanted to establish the entire territory of Bosnia Hercegovina as a Bosnian state, against, the clear wishes of the majority (56 per cent Serbs and Croats, who had their own views on their future).
As for the Croats not wanting a Croat state that extended beyond its borders, that is ludicrous. Croats clearly intended to annex Croat territory within Bosnia Hercegovina.
While noone is defending or justifying the Serb actions during the war or their contribution to the causes of the war, it is you who is in fact denying Bosnian Muslim responsibility.If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams
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Originally posted by Onur View PostBill, i am gonna quote myself cuz no one denies that Croats and Bosnians did similar actions in smaller scale but that`s why no one talks about that;
About why Serbians filmed all and aired on Serbian tv channels; because it was something to proud of for them since people only tries to hide the things they`ve ashamed of but shows the stuff they are proud of. Even only this behavior proves that Serbs committed genocide in Srebrenica because they were proud of what they have done to the civilians in there and you can see it from the comments of Mladic to the camera where he says that they finally took the "revenge" from the so-called Turks.
Germans did same thing too. Didn't you see the Nazi propaganda films where it shows the 10.000s of French captives, dying of hunger and Germans making fun of them by throwing goats, sheeps between them and watching them tear up the animal with their bare hands while it was alive. Germans was laughing at them and subtitles on the video says "These are the so-called sophisticated Frenches".
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Originally posted by vojnik View PostAre people here also blind to the fact that it was the Bosnian Muslims who sided with Hitler in World War II. The Grand Mufti of Jeruslem hand picked these soldiers of the sword creating one of Hitlers most feared units.
Are you also blind to know that there were also a lot of important bosniaks who were important in the partisan movement as well? You cant brush all people with the same brush mate.
FYI the nedic regime in serbia were proud to boast that serbia was the first "judas free" country in europe, and the chetniks would work both sides, the nazi's and the west, in order to get funding and achieve their goals...
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Originally posted by vojnik View PostThe Bosnians started the war in a town called Dzer if I recall correctly where they raped Serb women killed them and children etc
If you want evidence of this or anything like that you can try search it yourself I read this and have heard this fact from many who witnesses the war first hand.
Btw the serbs that i know say that the war was started because a "drunk serb hating bosniak" killed all these people at a serbian wedding, or something stupid along those lines....
Were you one of the macedonians who were protesting when Slobodan Milsovich was arrested or did you cry when arkan was killed?
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Originally posted by Big Bad Sven View Posthahhaha this is becoming silly now.....
Btw the serbs that i know say that the war was started because a "drunk serb hating bosniak" killed all these people at a serbian wedding, or something stupid along those lines....
Were you one of the macedonians who were protesting when Slobodan Milsovich was arrested or did you cry when arkan was killed?
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BBS,
I have not seen or read the entirety of the Milosevic trial, but from the substantial amount of documents I have read, it was quite pathetic. Even if Milosevic was guilty of everything he was indicted for, actually proving it is quite difficult. The trail went into the ridiculous at times, much like Colin Powell's attempt to convince the UN Security Council that Iraq had nuclear weapons (remember his cartoon drawings of what a nuclear facility would look like if Iraq had one? http://hillbuzz.org/2008/08/14/rumor...-obamasoetoro/).If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams
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Are you sure about this? Bosnians (although they only accounted for 44 per cent of the population) wanted to establish the entire territory of Bosnia Hercegovina as a Bosnian state, against, the clear wishes of the majority (56 per cent Serbs and Croats, who had their own views on their future).Last edited by slovenec zrinski; 06-17-2011, 03:49 AM.
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To equate the blame on all three sides is wrong, and will remain wrong despite attempts of revisionism. From all I have seen or read and also talked with bosnians of all three religions, the bosniaks before the war urged, pleaded and begged for all the three peoples/religions to live together and work together. During the protests and demonstrations that precluded the war in Sarajevo I have never ever seen or heard any bosniaks yelling Allah..I have only heard them plead for unity and if anything has been chanted,as far as I know..it was Bosna,Bosna,Bosna and Tito,Tito,Tito.
As for the war crimes, no, in no way can the bosniaks be equated with the serbs (or croats). The intent of the serbs steered their war machinery. And that intent from the start was etnich cleaning, as they had done in Croatia.
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Originally posted by slovenec zrinski View PostTo equate the blame on all three sides is wrong, and will remain wrong despite attempts of revisionism. From all I have seen or read and also talked with bosnians of all three religions, the bosniaks before the war urged, pleaded and begged for all the three peoples/religions to live together and work together. During the protests and demonstrations that precluded the war in Sarajevo I have never ever seen or heard any bosniaks yelling Allah..I have only heard them plead for unity and if anything has been chanted,as far as I know..it was Bosna,Bosna,Bosna and Tito,Tito,Tito.
As for the war crimes, no, in no way can the bosniaks be equated with the serbs (or croats). The intent of the serbs steered their war machinery. And that intent from the start was etnich cleaning, as they had done in Croatia.
I've said before, in a war situation both sides commit crimes, but to constantly state things like; "but but, the Bosnians did things too" is just wrong. Its also just plain wrong to find some reason, to say that the Bosnians have done 'something (ive read even a ridiculous thing as a rape)' that started the war. Even if that something did not happen, the Serbs would still start it.
As for milosevic. If his trial was fair or not fair, it still doesnt change anything to the fact of what he has done.
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Originally posted by slovenec zrinski View PostNot true. There was a vote for independence in 1992. Turnout 63.4 % with 99.7% for independence. The vote was boycotted by most serbs apparently since they were urged to do so by their politicians. Bosnians and Croats voted for independence, understandable since they saw the serbs behaviour in Croatia during end of 1991.If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams
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Originally posted by slovenec zrinski View PostNot true. There was a vote for independence in 1992. Turnout 63.4 % with 99.7% for independence. The vote was boycotted by most serbs apparently since they were urged to do so by their politicians. Bosnians and Croats voted for independence, understandable since they saw the serbs behaviour in Croatia during end of 1991.In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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I am fully aware of the Croatians plans more or less behind the scene and if given the option to join Croatia probably would have voted for that...but since that option never was a reality we will actually never know unless there were polls taken amongs the Croatians at that time.
As for the referendum in 1992 the question asked to the voters was not "Do you want to secede from Yugoslavia?"..it was "Da li ste za to da BiH bude nezavisna država svih njenih građana i ravnopravnih naroda?" (Are you for that BiH will become an independent country for all of its citizens and equal nations?) I know this might seem like splitting hairs but that was the question that was asked to the population including the catholic bosnians/croats and that was what they voted for. And I know SoM..that it was probably not just some elements working for union with Croatia but rather a large proportion of the population as well...
During the initial fighting as far as I know the cooperation between the legal bosnian army and the croatian HOS forces was working well and it was only after the Vance Owen plan was set forth (a plan that was very much in favour of the Croats but also the Serbs) that HOS started to accuse the Bosniaks for being extremists and began carving out the territory "given" to them by Vance Owen by turning on the Bosnian army and start ethnic cleaning against the Bosniaks.
fotnote: As I am not speaker of serbian or croatian or serbocroatian I am not 100% sure of the translation of the question asked
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