Macedonian Orthodox Church - News & Updates

[johnMKD]

What you expect from the recognition of Russian patriarchy? I mean, whats the difference if they recognize your church or not? I can clearly see that the religion of Christianity always involved into politics throughout history but it is 2010. Do you think that religion still have power on world of politics?

It's very important for the church to be recognised by the Russian Patriarchy. But isn't it already recognised by the "Ecumenical" Patriarchy? I really don't have a clue about it. Or is the latter quietly supporting Greek views and refuses to recognise the church?

[Mastika]

Guys, i got couple of questions to you about this;

1. Whats the difference between the reign of Russian and Turkish Empire for you? I am asking this because in my point of view, i see none. In my opinion, both were foreigner to you and they were trying to expand their political influence in the world by controlling Balkans.

I will happily answer your question Onur, however please clarify the following. Are you talking about the Tsarist influence in/on Macedonia or the way that the Russian empire goverened itself in comparison to the way that the Ottoman Empire was goverened?

[Onur]

Guys, i got couple of questions to you about this;

• Whats the difference between the reign of Russian and Turkish Empire for you? I am asking this because in my point of view, i see none. In my opinion, both were foreigner to you and they were trying to expand their political influence in the world by controlling Balkans.

• What you expect from the recognition of Russian patriarchy? I mean, whats the difference if they recognize your church or not? I can clearly see that the religion of Christianity always involved into politics throughout history but it is 2010. Do you think that religion still have power on world of politics?

Please take no offense since I am just wondering. Sorry if i disturbed you, just give it to my ignorance of religious stuff.

No wonder everybody laugh at us, your all history experts and our church is the only true one, oldest, our languages is the oldest, everything we have is the only true and oldest and everybody is guilty for stealing our history... etc the usual pathetic.

I don't know about the church but i know some parts of Russian history, since its related with the Turks. You know, both were living at the same place at Caucasus.

History of Macedonia and Macedonians definitely much older than the Russians. First Russian state only created at medieval times. Russian history just begins with their occupation of the city, "Kiev" which founded by Khazar Turks earlier. Even the word "Kiev" is also Turkish, means "double castle/house" which signifies the two big Khazar castle in the city. They just gained control of that area after majority of Turks migrated out from Caucasus to Anatolia and Balkans and thats when the history of Russians begins. If majority of people doesn't know this, its mostly because the Bolsheviks tried to erase pre-Russian history of Caucasus by claiming that they were the only one who can claim ownership of their territory.


So, if someone says that Macedonians has richer and older history than Russians, it wouldn't be wrong at all.

[julie]

Komita, where are you or your folks from?

[Komita]

Sorry to dissapoint you, but I'm not a church follower nor I take any church seriously when it comes to proclaimation of someone for a "Saint".

The church was and will remain a tool of ruling the masses by persuasion.

Good, now I understand why you post like a typical pagan nationalist.

[Bratot]

No wonder nobody takes our church serious or wants to recognize it when this is the views of it's followers.

Sorry to dissapoint you, but I'm not a church follower nor I take any church seriously when it comes to proclaimation of someone for a "Saint".

The church was and will remain a tool of ruling the masses by persuasion.

[Mastika]

at your posts on this topic. Hillarious.
No wonder everybody laugh at us, your all history experts and our church is the only true one, oldest, our languages is the oldest, everything we have is the only true and oldest and everybody is guilty for stealing our history... etc the usual pathetic.

I take it that you think Rasputin should also become a Saint? He too was a man of god <cough, choke>.

[Komita]

at your posts on this topic. Hillarious.
No wonder everybody laugh at us, your all history experts and our church is the only true one, oldest, our languages is the oldest, everything we have is the only true and oldest and everybody is guilty for stealing our history... etc the usual pathetic.

[Mastika]

Bla bla bla bla... This is a typical western history lesson that you gained and if you know better then his own people and the holy church then fine.

Funny how 95 years ago virtually the whole country wanted to see his downfall.

Komita, it was his own people that rose against him and all that he stood for; Russification, Aristocracy, the Monarchy, Discrimination, Classism, Conservatism. During his reign the Russian people got poorer and poorer whilst the country stagnated economically and politically. Nicholas was not interested in making any effective reforms and tried to stop them when they began to speak for the Russian people and not the Russian Tsar, eg. dissolving the Duma's.

I am sure that he was a nice and loving man to his family, there is no doubt about that, but this doesn't excuse the wrongs which he comitted against the peoples of his Empire.

btw. nobody has actually asked you to leave becuase of your avatar, and nobody will delete your account for that reason. I was merely intrigued by it, thats all.

BBS, I strongly agree with you except for your last point about him not being Russian. He saw himself as a Russian and was partly of Russian descent. We have to respect those wishes and refer to him as he saw himself.

[Big Bad Sven]

What is there to explain?
He is the last great Tsar of Russia, a good and queit man in real life, a good and loving father he's the last real russian leader that stood up for slavs and a martyr of the orthodox faith.
If it's against the rules to have him as a avatar feel free to delete my account.

You seem to be out of touch in your views of this person.

You cant say he was "defender of the slavs" as he ruled Poland and Ukraine with a Iron Fist. Im sure the Poles and the Catholic Ukrainians loved the intense russophocation.
He even killed his own people in the Bloody Sunday protests, which were peacefull protests against the Tsar.

You cant call him a "great russian" leader as he lost to Japan in the Russo-Japanese war - the results shocked the world and made russia loose its image of world power. He was incompatant and useless and people wanted him out after loosing to lowly Japan.

Even doing a quick google/wikipedia search shows that its common belief that this bloke was useless and russians lost faith in him:



Nicholas is generally considered to have been incompetent to the colossal task of ruling the enormous Russian Empire.[60] Historian Barbara Tuchman gives a damning evaluation of his reign:

[The Russian Empire] was ruled from the top by a sovereign who had but one idea of government—to preserve intact the absolute monarchy bequeathed to him by his father—and who, lacking the intellect, energy or training for his job, fell back on personal favorites, whim, simple mulishness, and other devices of the empty-headed autocrat. His father, Alexander III, who deliberately intended to keep his son uneducated in statecraft until the age of thirty, unfortunately miscalculated his own life expectancy, and died when Nicholas was twenty-six. The new Czar had learned nothing in the interval, and the impression of imperturbability he conveyed was in reality apathy—the indifference of a mind so shallow as to be all surface. When a telegram was brought to him announcing the annihilation of the Russian fleet at Tsushima, he read it, stuffed it in his pocket, and went on playing tennis. (Tuchman, Barbara W. The Guns of August. New York: Presidio Press, 1962, pg. 71.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_II_of_Russia

Even the decision to make him a saint caused divisions in Russia (from wikipesia):


However, Nicholas' canonization was controversial. The Russian Orthodox Church Abroad was split on the issue back in 1981. Some members suggesting that the emperor was a weak ruler and had failed to prevent the outbreak of Communism in Russia. It was pointed out by one priest that martyrdom in the Russian Orthodox Church has nothing to do with the martyr's personal actions but is instead related to why he or she was killed.[61] A further criticism was found in that the Orthodox Church outside of Russia seemed to be using Nicholas' murder as propaganda against the Jews.[62]

The Russian Orthodox Church inside Russia rejected the family's classification as martyrs because they were not killed because of their religious faith. Religious leaders in both churches also had objections to canonizing the Tsar's family because they perceived him as a weak emperor whose incompetence led to the revolution, the suffering of his people and made him at least partially responsible for his own murder and those of his wife and children. For these opponents, the fact that the Tsar was, in private life, a kind man and a good husband and father did not override his poor governance of Russia.[61]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_II_of_Russia

And you cant even call him a "russian" because he was some Danish/germanic mut. Thats like calling a Albanian Tosk, vlach or grkoman a "greek" because they went to the greek church....

[Soldier of Macedon]

I would have to agree with everything you've just said BBS.

[Big Bad Sven]

Risto, Totally agree with you and you're right but there is diplomacy in every organization from Church to country to running a footy club. If they fully back us then it means they would risk weakening their relations with these churches so its always better to stay neutral however i fully support your claim because if you are neutral it doesnt make you bad in any way however you're not much of a friend either. I was only talking about bilateral relations, when it comes to taking sides its a different kettle of fish.

Lets look at the real picture, the Russian Orthodox Church is very similar to the Serbian and Greek Churches because they have other churches under their umbrella for example the Ukrainian,Belorussian,Latvian churches plus others from the former USSR federation so if Russia backs us against the Serbian Orthodox Church then whats stopping the other churches seeking for Avtokefalnost from the Russian Orthodox Church?

I think they should give everybody Avtokefalnost, even make a Kosovo Orthodox Church however sort out Carigrad and make sure there is a Poglavar who will be the head of every Orthodox Country,minority so there is a proper hierarchy not have every country doing what they like.

So basically the two key points here are that the Russians would rather support the serbs and "greeks" as they are more bigger and "important" fish in the bod, and plus the ROC does not want to recognize the MOC as it see's MOC as under the SOC umbrella......

Some friends. What a crock of shit......

[Big Bad Sven]

No wonder nobody takes our church serious or wants to recognize it when this is the views of it's followers.

What was wrong with Silvers statement? He is 100% correct.

The MOC should be praised as it is the only Orthodox chuch that has been faithfull and pure to orthodoxy by not being racist and taking advantage of other orthodox people.

The Orthodox churches and corrupt priests will burn in hell for what they have done and what they are doing to the poor MOC. It is totally unacceptable that four sectors of the Orthodox church deny the existance of the macedonian people. For shame on them for disgracing the orthodox faith and shame on you for taking their side and "blaming" the macedonians for something which they are not in control of. That is totally unfair.

Let me bring it down to your level: What would your saint be feeling and saying when he see's the racist GOC,SOC,BOC and AOC activities and attitueds that they are doing to the poor macedonians and MOC?

[Soldier of Macedon]

If it's against the rules to have him as a avatar feel free to delete my account.

Are you kidding me?

No wonder nobody takes our church serious or wants to recognize it when this is the views of it's followers.

What you should be saying is, no wonder the neighbouring OC's aren't respected by the Macedonians when, in their view, we don't even exist as humans. You're a passionate fellow, what a shame you give everything you have to the service of an elusive 'greater Slavdom' than to your own people, the Macedonians. An even greater shame is the fact that, ocite si mizis ko ke ni prat loso drugite, za zal. You're not the only one who resents some of our current circumstances, but turning your back on your own people isn't the answer.

You have an interest in religion, saints, etc, rather than focus on the Macedonian aspect of this so you can enrich the rest of us with your knowledge, you present yourself as a Russophile. How do you want people to react? If you have anything Macedonian left in your soul and sentiment, then fight for Macedonians, not against or in spite of them.

[Prolet]

Risto, Totally agree with you and you're right but there is diplomacy in every organization from Church to country to running a footy club. If they fully back us then it means they would risk weakening their relations with these churches so its always better to stay neutral however i fully support your claim because if you are neutral it doesnt make you bad in any way however you're not much of a friend either. I was only talking about bilateral relations, when it comes to taking sides its a different kettle of fish.

Lets look at the real picture, the Russian Orthodox Church is very similar to the Serbian and Greek Churches because they have other churches under their umbrella for example the Ukrainian,Belorussian,Latvian churches plus others from the former USSR federation so if Russia backs us against the Serbian Orthodox Church then whats stopping the other churches seeking for Avtokefalnost from the Russian Orthodox Church?

I think they should give everybody Avtokefalnost, even make a Kosovo Orthodox Church however sort out Carigrad and make sure there is a Poglavar who will be the head of every Orthodox Country,minority so there is a proper hierarchy not have every country doing what they like.