International Court of Justice - Macedonia and Greece

[makedonche]

Can somebody please give Reeker an award. (or has UMD already done this?)

RTG
I would like to present him with the honourary award of the lead!

[Brian]

Greece considers new tactic, Kofos proposed abandonment of the interim agreement

http://www.vest.mk/?ItemID=23BB9DB686ACE84BB0156ABE3128AD64

For Greece adverse decision of the International Court of Justice in The Hague is a logical consequence of the Interim Accord of 1995, assessed Evangelos Kofos, historian and adviser to the Greek Ministry of Foreign Affairs, in a colloquium held in Athens on Monday for a possible change of strategy in the Greek dispute name, after court ruling in favor of Macedonia.

The focus of the debate titled "The next step in relations between Greece and PJRM", held in the Greek Foreign Ministry, as transmitted Deutsche Welle, was asked whether it is necessary change in strategy following the recent decision of the Court in a dispute over the name. Kofos, who is a former diplomat, also plead for a waiver of the agreement to launch bilateral negotiations for a new international agreement on the basis of relevant UN resolutions. MEP and former Greek Foreign Ministry spokesman George Koumoutsakos urge such a step would not look like " a kind of reflex reaction, "but" to be connected into one overall strategy. " Support for the possible cancellation of the agreement and expressed Alexandros Mallias, a diplomat, first Chief of the Greek Liaison Office in Skopje, however, stressed that even after quitting, it remains in force for next 12 months. This time, according to him, both partners should take advantage of intensive negotiations. Mallias for the best solution considers the proposal for the name "Republic of New Macedonia", based on the plan of Cyrus Vance and David Owen in 1993, then rejected the Greek side. Mallias is very optimistic for a quick solution, because, as he said, "the other side evidently felt strengthened by the decision of the Tribunal, which practically marks the transition from international law to politics." Giorgos Koumoutsakos considers that the decision of the Court shall not call into question the conclusion of the NATO summit in Bucharest, but stressed that Greece must with all our strength to defend this conclusion, because in May ahead of NATO summit in Chicago. The name issue is a story of lost chances, evaluate Tanos touch , political scientist and head of the Athens Institute think-tank ELIAMEP. - Lesson one side was more ready to compromise, sometimes the other. But I never experienced a situation in which both partners in the negotiations at the same time would be willing to agree to a compromise, said touch.

WTF?

It sounds like they are feeling 'on the ropes' yet "both (sides)...willing to agree to a compromise". Does anyone in RoM know more - is our idiot planning on doing something stupid?

[Brian]

Is this provocation under the Interim Accord? - LOL.

[Risto the Great]

No deal in Macedonia name dispute

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/01/17/No-deal-in-Macedonia-name-dispute/UPI-27941326839883/?spt=hs&or=tn

UNITED NATIONS, Jan. 17 (UPI) -- Two days of talks at the United Nations ended Tuesday with no deal to end the naming dispute between Greece and the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.

A U.N. official said, however, the two sides found the discussions helpful in focusing on the way forward in a constructive manner. Matthew Nimitz, personal envoy of Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, said he was given firm assurances that each government is sincere in trying to find a solution.

The negotiations over the naming issue have been going on since Macedonia became an independent nation in 1991 following the break-up of Yugoslavia. Greece opposes its use of the name Republic of Macedonia because it has a Macedonia region within its borders.

In 1995, the United Nations helped the two sides reach an interim accord that obliges Athens and Skopje to keep talking until they reach a settlement.

"As we move forward, I have asked the parties to demonstrate their commitment to the resolution of their difference by promoting a positive atmosphere through their actions and public statements," Nimitz said.

blah blah

[Soldier of Macedon]

Nimitz must be the most overpaid clown in this whole 'naming' circus.

[Risto the Great]

Surely the casual observer would rate his involvement as ineffectual.

[Vangelovski]

The stupidity of the ICJ case is being reaffirmed continuously by UMD's man Reeker - in case the proponents of the "grand strategy" haven't realised it yet:

Philip Reeker, US deputy assistant secretary for European and Eurasian Affairs, said on Wednesday that despite a recent court ruling in favour of Macedonia, Skopje and Athens must reach a solution to their name dispute before Macedonia can join the alliance.

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/macedonia-needs-name-solution-to-move-nato-bid-forward

In fact, rather than providing Macedonia with an "excuse" to end the negotiations, as the 'grand strategists' put it, the US sees in entirely differently:

“As we said before, we believe that the ICJ decision provides an excellent opportunity- a catalyst- to reenergize the effort to find a solution to move forward so that Macedonia can receive an invitation to NATO,” he said.

But why wouldn't they think that? By asking the ICJ to enforce the Interim Accord, Macedonia has made it clear that it wants to find a solution.

[vicsinad]

Vangelovski:

I see no problem with Macedonia wanting to find a solution. There is a problem -- chiefly, Greece is hindering Macedonia's efforts to be a stable country, blocking its efforts to be an effective member of the international community (whether we agree with those efforts or not), and threatening the existence of an ethnic group. When presented with a problem, it makes sense to want to solve it. So I think Macedonia should continue working to achieve a solution.

However, that is different than saying Macedonia should compromise on its name or identity -- it's the Republic of Macedonia and the Macedonians.

Of course, a solution is difficult to get when all sides involved can't even agree (or admit) to the nature of the problem.

[Vangelovski]

Vicsinad,

We should not forget that when the Macedonian Government talks about a "solution", they mean compromise. There is no doubt about what kind of a "solution" is in question and has already been accepted on a number of occasions (FYROM, Republic of Macedonia (Skopje)).

[Risto the Great]

Macedonia its being unfair to Greece if it says it wants a solution but will not change the name. A much fairer action would be an end to negotiations. The reality is that Macedonia has been willing to change the name in the past. That is the only thing we can actually be sure of.

[Soldier of Macedon]

When presented with a problem, it makes sense to want to solve it. So I think Macedonia should continue working to achieve a solution.

However, that is different than saying Macedonia should compromise on its name or identity -- it's the Republic of Macedonia and the Macedonians.

Vic, let's be realistic. What sort of a solution can be found where Macedonian integrity remains intact (meaning Macedonia and Macedonians/Macedonian for state and people/language only) and Greece agrees to such terms? Does this solution also include our people in the Macedonian part of Greece? If the answer is 'no' for both, then what is the point of trying to find a 'solution' if one doesn't exist? Why not just end the 'negotiations' that never should have been started in the first place?

[vicsinad]

Soldier:

I'm not sure what the solution would be. I just think it is important to emphasize that there is a difference between a solution and a compromise, and that I would hope that Macedonians would want to find a solution. Taking into account what you, Risto and Vangelovski said, it's important to note that the solution to the problem does not involve appeasing Greece. But it doesn't mean that some sort solution can't be found.

I mean...any Macedonian scientists working on the A-bomb?

That could potentially solve something...

[Risto the Great]

The solution is simple.
End the negotiations and begin restoring some pride in the Macedonian identity.
It is the only solution even though it may not be enough.

[Soldier of Macedon]

A 'solution' cannot be found for something that is not negotiable. The only solution is for official Greece to change its attitude. That is not going to happen while our politicians are dangling carrots like Republic of Macedonia (Skopje) or whatever else they've suggested as "acceptable" in the past. Macedonia needs to cease these disgraceful 'negotiations' now.

[George S.]

the solution is for macedonia to face reality & the other coutries to get a reality check.
They need to recognize that macedonia allways existed & it exists & start from there & begin with respect & dignity,& recognition.