Financial Crisis in Greece

[Stojacanec]

YES , Fighting will solve the problems.

Valmir, Albanians claim links to Alexander from his mum (???). Can you give me any examples of the Albanian fighting spirit in recent times other than having 14 kids and claiming minority rights?

[lavce pelagonski]

This is what is happening

[Daskalot]

If it wasnt for the name issue you wouldnt be saying those things.
Tell me one time we threatened you with military force if we dont get our way. Then, il stop.

What was the name of the Greek prime minister or was it the president, who had planned for the partition of the Republic of Macedonia between them and the Serbs in the 1990s?

[Voltron]

Voltron, Greece owes about ~500 billions Euros to the German and French banking cartels and this continues to increase day by day.

You can only relieve yourself by swearing to Turkey but this wont change the fact that they own your ass for the next century and they will confiscate every drop of your oil as a repayment of your debt`s interest value and you cant say shit about that. They will simply leech you and suck you dry just as they do in the middle east.

Economical warfare is equally viable as bombs if that country belongs to "the capital". Iran, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan doesn't belong to the world capital, thats why they bomb them but Greece belongs, so economical warfare is sufficient to put you on your knees.

Onur, your forgetting how Turkey was on the brink of collapse in 2001.
The report said 3 trillion in Gas and Oil what is 500billion in front of this figure ? Also, it wont be 500 billion we will be receiving a "haircut" of 70 percent so the figure will drop. We dont owe as much as Italy or UK, the problem is our income to expense ratio is all producing a loss. With the necessary reforms and new approach can change this. We slashed wages to be similar to Bulgaria now, the reason is to make this country more competative. We are paying for mistakes and changes that should of been done in the past but doing it now. Its not the end of the world and its certainly not the way you portray it. Its rough for people to accept it now but there certainly will be a change for the better and a hard lessoned learned.

[Voltron]

What was the name of the Greek prime minister or was it the president, who had planned for the partition of the Republic of Macedonia between them and the Serbs in the 1990s?

You have it backwards, Milosavich planned it we didnt go through with it. Its rumored, im not sure if its even fact.

[George S.]

voltron you got your economics back to front you are in denial of certain greek tragedies that are unfolding is the complete breakdown of the greek econoimy.Any measures taken will not work properly as they will lose their effect.

[Stojacanec]

You have it backwards, Milosavich planned it we didnt go through with it. Its rumored, im not sure if its even fact.

Volton, act of war or not, Greece has blocked Macedonia from its own natural path and develpment in NATO and EU. Putting the value of both aside, if MKD has invitation the process shouldn't be hindered by a country messing with her internal affairs.

Like Croatia and Albania, Macedonia should have been in NATO by now with no deliberations about name.

How ironic on the one hand Greece damages the natural progress of a country 1/5 its size and on the other hand Greece begs for financial aid.

That is why Greece as a nation is pathetic and a disgrace.

And before you carry on about how much of an invester Greece is in Macedonia, save it because they are all private firms making higher profits that otherwise would do in their own back yard.

[Voltron]

Volton, act of war or not, Greece has blocked Macedonia from its own natural path and develpment in NATO and EU. Putting the value of both aside, if MKD has invitation the process shouldn't be hindered by a country messing with her internal affairs.

Like Croatia and Albania, Macedonia should have been in NATO by now with no deliberations about name.

How ironic on the one hand Greece damages the natural progress of a country 1/5 its size and on the other hand Greece begs for financial aid.

That is why Greece as a nation is pathetic and a disgrace.

And before you carry on about how much of an invester Greece is in Macedonia, save it because they are all private firms making higher profits that otherwise would do in their own back yard.

Stojacanec, do you not understand that Macedonia is a signing party to solving this dispute in a mutual satisfactory manner ? What are we supposed to do ? Lose any point of leverage to get you guys on the negotiating table ? Macedonia has been trying to have this solved in a unilateral way without good faith. Well, every country has a right to use diplomatic weapons if another party does not perform. Espescially if they are a signing party to an agreement.

Turkey has blocked Kurds from having a soverign homeland on the basis of not losing any influence in the region. At least you have a country.

[Brian]

Stojacanec, do you not understand that Macedonia is a signing party to solving this dispute in a mutual satisfactory manner ? What are we supposed to do ? Lose any point of leverage to get you guys on the negotiating table ? Macedonia has been trying to have this solved in a unilateral way without good faith. Well, every country has a right to use diplomatic weapons if another party does not perform. Espescially if they are a signing party to an agreement.

Turkey has blocked Kurds from having a soverign homeland on the basis of not losing any influence in the region. At least you have a country.

Voltron you seem like a smart guy but when the matter is indefensibly it shows the malice of the situation.

The very document you are pointing to that both parties signed to find a solution to support your point also says that Greece does NOT have the right to use the "Veto" if Macedonia is entering as FYROM. By using veto in such a way is an illegal action, not leverage. The ICJ suit proved this. The problem is a law is only as good as the force upholding it. It is a leverage you illegal have and use. What should have happened is the other NATO members (ie the force) should have said to Greece according to your agreement with FYROM you cannot veto them as FYROM so if you have any other objections state them or stand aside. Why they didn't do that is up for speculation. "Right" is on Macedonia's side, but of course right doesn't always beat might.

You cannot preach about honour and we can be friends but a contract needs to be lived up to when it is Greece who is the non-compliant party illegally supported by some of the other NATO members. You cannot selectively point to a law when you think it supports you but disregard it when it doesn't. That is the proof of dishonourable action and malice and why we cannot be friends.

Greece saying after the ICJ case that Macedonia can enter NATO if another agreement is signed that a new name WILL be implemented after Macedonia enters as FYROM is a form of 'buyers regret' not a legal right - ie the contract doesn't favour us the way we thought it would so let's amend/add to it such that it guarantees Greece wins is not diplomacy but thuggery and it also makes a mockery of the USA/EU/NATO of saying they are honourable and believe in the right of law. For this reason noone has the right to preach to Macedonia about the virtues of the right of law and Macedonia should stand her ground.

[Voltron]

Brian, the agreement also stated to avoid any type of needless provocation which you didnt mention. You know, the whole airport, expressway, swastika thing.
Besides, Macedonia first went in as Republic of and then reverted to FYROM. By then the cat was out of the bag.

I dont like past agreements we made either with Turkey (during the stalemate with Imia for example) but those things happen and thats why I said earlier the best way out is to work with your neighbor and avoid getting foreigners involved.

[Brian]

Brian, the agreement also stated to avoid any type of needless provocation which you didnt mention. You know, the whole airport, expressway, swastika thing.
Besides, Macedonia first went in as Republic of and then reverted to FYROM. By then the cat was out of the bag.

I dont like past agreements we made either with Turkey (during the stalemate with Imia for example) but those things happen and thats why I said earlier the best way out is to work with your neighbor and avoid getting foreigners involved.

I did mention it by saying that the ICJ case proves the veto used by Greece is illegal. Expert legal opinion and the court have all said Macedonia did NO WRONG with the "airport, expressway, swastika thing" (although I don't know what swastika thing your referring to). That said I saw no reason to rehash the justification in defending the case again - a proven point need not be reproved everytime it is refereed to.

Macedonia stating her name as Macedonia and her desire to be refereed to as Republic of Macedonia is not even a weak point - the application was in the name of FYROM.

I don't like NATO or the EU and feel perplex to be arguing Macedonia's right to enter these organisations but if you want to put up 'honour', 'friendship', 'co-operation' and 'rule of law' on the same shelf then Greece falls flat on all accounts and justifies my point that Greeks are not our friends, cannot be trusted and harbour active malice towards us. 'Sweet-talk words' afterwards just says to me 'lying through your teeth'.

[Voltron]

Greece was on trial not Macedonia, that was the whole point. We never raised an objection during those incidents so the court had no choice but to rule only on the basis of the veto by Greece and not by previous actions done by Macedonia.
Again, in every instance Macedonia did everything in its power to avoid finding a mutual accepted solution even reverting to the ICJ to try and unilaterally sideline Greece in this dispute. On the other hand if we would of taken you to court first for your actions it would of been a different story, but we didnt since we did not want to aggravate the situation. It would of been much harder next to impossible for us to veto you if you guys would of just played cool.

Nobody harbors active malice, I dont know anybody that hates or even dislikes you. It just politics and both our governments could of handled this in a much better fashion.

[Risto the Great]

Nobody harbors active malice, I dont know anybody that hates or even dislikes you. It just politics and both our governments could of handled this in a much better fashion.

I would suggest there are many like that dickhead who abused the Macedonian truck driver whilst in Greece. So I am not sure why you would say such silly things.

[Risto the Great]

Brian, the agreement also stated to avoid any type of needless provocation which you didnt mention. You know, the whole airport, expressway, swastika thing.

Swastika thing?
Meanwhile Greece can rename its peripheries, airport and people.

Do you think Macedonians (after leaving Yugoslavia) would prefer Yugo nostalgic names or would it seek to assert its identity. It was a perfectly natural process after secession.

Far less natural is what happened in Greece after the late eighties.

[Voltron]

I would suggest there are many like that dickhead who abused the Macedonian truck driver whilst in Greece. So I am not sure why you would say such silly things.

That guy had some real issues Risto. A lot of Greeks felt upset about that situation. Nobody likes that type of behavior. Seriously.

Swastika thing?
Meanwhile Greece can rename its peripheries, airport and people.

Do you think Macedonians (after leaving Yugoslavia) would prefer Yugo nostalgic names or would it seek to assert its identity. It was a perfectly natural process after secession.

Far less natural is what happened in Greece after the late eighties.

The stunt with the Billboard. Ok fine for the sake of the argument screw the Airport's name. But the Expressways ?! Which is easier Risto, taking the I-90 to 294 West to Bitola or taking Alexander the Great to hop on Phillip of Macedon going East ? I mean cmon can it get more obvious ?