Nikola Gruevski

[Bill77]

That is what I am inclined to believe Bill. I don't think their is any intention to change the name and all these 'negotiations' may just be taking place to show good diplomatic relations. Even though there is no issue to negotiate, as far as I'm concerned, it appears to the West that we are willing to find a solution to problems amongst nations.

But then again, the Interim Accord and Ohrid Agreement make me think twice about their true motives.

He inherited this problem. But in saying that, he can also end it. But i can not criticize him "yet" until i understand his powers and any other implications if there are any.

Don't mistake my comments in any way as condoning negotiations. I have many times stated piss Greece off end all this negotiations. Its just that some come in here and rant like lynch mobs and just go with the flow and their contribution is only repeating the same tune over.

We must keep pressure on our government to keep the bastards honest. But Gruevski (Trust him or not) said something that we all should be delighted and give him credit, is turned around and made out to be something negetive. We should be spreading his words, encourage it.

[Bill77]

If you want to have so much faith in him, go ahead and believe everything that the politicians say. If he doesn't stop the negotiations, get ready for a name change if SDSM actually pulls off a win in elections.

Seriously, thats a bullshit comment.

If our wish comes true and negotiations stop, SDSM would take this twist it to bash VMRO over the head with it, come into power then start the negotiations again.

[julie]

Bill, why did he call for a referendum and in the same breath say, this is how I am going to vote? Why does he continue to meet with NATO/EU/Greece in negotiation talks? Why does he do this is beyond me. He also had the opportunity when coming to Australia for those reciprocal pension whatever with the PM to voice his displeasure with him in stating we are not FYROM< instead he chose not to say a word. Australia stated they will drop the acrobym on RoM request. He had the opportunity then, and to show how many Macedonians are in Australia. Why does he keep quiet? Why did he keep quiet when Todor Petrov got shafted out of Pirin for the sluzhbi from Bulgaria couple months back with the priests? ANd allowed Vulgars in to lay wreaths for Gotse Delchev in RoM?
Why does Nikola spout he is fro Egejska Makedonia, yet turns his back on his own?
Why did he not lodge an offense against Ahmeti pigmouth Albanetz in parliament who said he refuses to speak Macedonia. ?
Can anyone please tell me how this accounts for a "strategy" for the greater good of the sovereignty of Macedonia? I think not.
He continues to support the framework agreement, he is a ramkovist, he agrees with it, if he didnt in 4 years he would have done something. Like shut it down
I am sorry Bill, too many of my questions are hanging in air. We shall wait and see.

[julie]

Seriously, thats a bullshit comment.

If our wish comes true and negotiations stop, SDSM would take this twist it to bash VMRO over the head with it, come into power then start the negotiations again.

Bill, I dont know about that Batko. SDMS is gearing up in a big way for a name change, and it frightens me

[EgejskaMakedonia]

If you want to have so much faith in him, go ahead and believe everything that the politicians say. If he doesn't stop the negotiations, get ready for a name change if SDSM actually pulls off a win in elections.

I never said I had total faith in Macedonia's current politicians, I'm simply stating that I doubt they will go against the wishes of the majority of Macedonians.
I highly doubt that people will vote for SDSM simply because the negotiations don't stop. I want the negotiations to stop, but true Macedonians are smarter than to allow SDSM another term in government.
If one changes their vote to SDSM only because of the ongoing negotiations, regardless of what SDSM may promise in the future, if SDSM gain power then there will be no more negotiations.
No negotiations, but instead there will be an abrupt agreement on Macedonia's name and identity.

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

I'm simply stating that I doubt they will go against the wishes of the majority of Macedonians.

I'm not so sure about that. They already screwed us over so many times. Don't forget what Kiro Gligorov said, don't forget that they changed our flag, now our name is next.

Never trust these current politicians. We need a pro Macedonian party that cares about Macedonia and Macedonians. We need to abandon these VMRO wannabes because they are the opposite of heroes..

[Bill77]

Bill, why did he call for a referendum and in the same breath say, this is how I am going to vote?

A) He could be a chicken shit and let the Nation decide
B) It could've been a wise move knowing the nation would vote NO and it would have spread a strong message to the west and its own internal back stabbers, that the people have spoken, now go against them if they wish

Why does he continue to meet with NATO/EU/Greece in negotiation talks?

I can't remember the recent stats, but majority of the citizens want entry to these clubs, but not if it was at the expense of changing our name. As a leader of the elected party, he must try to respect the citizens wish's. Which like it or not, he is doing exactly that. Trying to enter these clubs but not at the expense of a name change (which it has already been changed anyway)

If he does not at least be seen as trying, The parties term will be short lived and who will take over? god forbid.

So i am not entirely pro VMRO, but i have to back the lesser evil for now.

He also had the opportunity when coming to Australia for those reciprocal pension whatever with the PM to voice his displeasure with him in stating we are not FYROM< instead he chose not to say a word. Australia stated they will drop the acrobym on RoM request.

Its the first i'm hearing this. If So, then i am disappointed. Pokazi mi kade imash slushnato za ova.

[Bill77]

Bill, I dont know about that Batko. SDMS is gearing up in a big way for a name change, and it frightens me

I agree sis.

But i only disputed DCH suggestion that if Gruevski and co, was to end negotiations, SDSM (once in power) would not be able to start negotiations again.

[julie]

Read the responses from our MP's Bill, there are some published here on the MTO forum, stating when RoM puts that request forward to Australia, they will recognise us as simply Macedonia. They all seem a standard letter response.

I will not back either party. I dont trust him, its not the lesser of 2 evils, they are both sell-outs. He continues to negotiate, is his ego so big he wants to keep the party line??? Ego bigger than the Macedonian name? He can say NO. Its like he is pussy whipped by US, and I dont trust either party, neither have my support.

I will kiss Nikla Gruevski arse if he is honest and drops the ramkovist agreement and name negotiations. For the whole world to see. Bill, VMRO is not the party it used to be.

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

But i only disputed DCH suggestion that if Gruevski and co, was to end negotiations, SDSM (once in power) would not be able to start negotiations again.

You misunderstood me. I said if VMRO doesn't end the negotiations now, and if SDSM somehow wins in elections, they will finish the negotiations by changing the name.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

I'm not so sure about that. They already screwed us over so many times. Don't forget what Kiro Gligorov said, don't forget that they changed our flag, now our name is next.

Never trust these current politicians. We need a pro Macedonian party that cares about Macedonia and Macedonians. We need to abandon these VMRO wannabes because they are the opposite of heroes..

Kiro Gligorov is hardly one to quote. He publicly states Macedonians are 'slavs' and that we have no connection to ancient Macedonians. As far as I'm concerned he also allowed the old flag to be changed.
Who are 'they,' at the end of the day he gave in to the enemy.

I agree that we cannot trust any of the politicians at this current time, but the current government holds more hope than the other 'major' party SDSM.
You can't just throw a party together with a few patriots. Although the identity and nation is at risk, a Government still requires skills in other areas such as allocating money to health, etc. Not that this is something any Macedonian political party can be proud of.

Your last point is the very reason I prefer to use their whole name (VMRO-DPMNE) because the sole title of VMRO would definitely be misrepresentative of these people.

[indigen]

Really......if he is pro changing our name "sell out" as some would suggest, would his comments about greece and the 100 + years of problems, not work against his aspirations?

There is a lot of pressure, internal and external, for him to "compromise" and he and his crew want, and would like, to stay in power and thus are in the game of trying to find a deal they can "sell". I think a prefix or suffix for international use has become acceptable to all the political elites in RoM and now identity (language designation and nationality) is at play. Thus you now see Gruevski talking about the 100 year problem and other issues.

Can someone more mature please answer, does Gruevski have the power to call off these name talks?

He has a lot of pull in DPMNE but if MPs and other party apparatchiks sense that they will lose power because the West has thrown its full weight behind SDSM and allies, they might revolt and he only needs to lose support of a few MPs plus DUI before his government is toppled.

There are also MPs from the coalition parties that are being worked on. All in all, it is a very hard game to be a politician who wants to stay in power and do justice to the Macedonian Cause. It is an OXYMORON at present.

Has he changed our name in the 4 years he has been in power?

He has offered Rep of Macedonia (Skopje) for NATO in 2008 and is suing Greece in order to enforce the IA so that RoM can enter NATO and start EU entry negotiations as FYROM. MFA has offered a New Name to be enforceable only upon final entry into EU. It is Greece that is stopping him from doing this as it wants much more than that and it has political forces inside Macedonia who are willing to do its bidding.

Do you think if he wanted to, he would have by now and again would it be wise to fire up your citizens against Greece if his intentions are to sell us out ?

Greece wants more than just a new name for Macedonia and thus it is not possible at present to do it and "firing up" the "citizens" against Greece is just part of the negotiations on the identity and language issues.

Or is he just walking on egg shells and being diplomatic with the west but has no intentions what so ever to change our name, where as at the same time, keep the traitors within our country (Albanians, SDSM etc) from causing our country more grief.

He has to do that, i.e.resist for now as much as he can, as they want him to do something very politically dangerous indeed and completely deconstruct our identity. At this stage that would spell electoral disaster for him or anyone else attempting it and Macedonians will need to be softened up and conditioned some more before they try to sell it to them with confidence of getting passed one way or another.

[blackcactus]

Australia stated they will drop the acronym on RoM request.

I have never heard this before, if true we should partition Macedonia to ask Australia



Julie as for everything else you mentioned my guess it's about EU$, US$, and perks (i.e. favorable trading conditions)

Ultimately PM Gruevski is a politician in government he plays the game for as long as he can for the most gain he can(usually economic) and this is what frustrates us non-politicians no end

But I think he really does have no intention of changing our name, but being a politician he plays the international game of diplomacy which is muddy at best

This is my opinion and I could be sadly wrong about my observations, to have another leader fail us... I have no words

If this guy fails us we have no peaceful alternative

[Big Bad Sven]

This is the thing that i hate about "Grujo", he talks it up big in macedonian media and parliment, but tows the EU/NATO/UN line when dealing with those organisations.

Its like about a month ago, in macedonia he was talking it up that there was going to be no name change, and then when we read western articles we read that Gruevski is keen to work out a "compromise" on our name......

This recent stuff is great from Gruevski, but i would respect him more and take him more seriously if he said this to Matthew Mimmitz or some other incompetent UN politician, not just in macedonian parliment....

[Bill77]

This recent stuff is great from Gruevski, but i would respect him more and take him more seriously if he said this to Matthew Mimmitz or some other incompetent UN politician, not just in macedonian parliment....

Well we don't know what he says behind closed doors. Nimmitz would never expose it, after all he is in a way a peace negotiator.

There is also a youtube clip posted a while ago where he spoke out after a particular summit that slips my mind, but it was infront of the world media. So now and then he drops a few bombs aimed at greece, which we should encourage him to do more of.