Nikola Gruevski

[Bill77]

Good points bill

If Macedonia changes it's name (Highly unlikely) then I reckon there would be a great number of Macedonians in the Diaspora that will not visit there as much or even many will not return back at all...this is something that the Politicians need to think about aswell..

We have finally tasted independence and have our own place to call home. There is no way i would go back to this country that is totally foreign controlled, that has a foreign name and foreign currency (although euro is circulated its not our official currency or atleast we still have our own).

[fyrOM]

Is the question really just about a name. You have said it yourselves and found articles by the Greeks that the name is the tip or coverall but that the flow on from that name is the real danger for both sides.

There are people who start chants and those who follow. The majority brain-dead morons who have been brainwashed to believe Macedonia is Greek are in one sense like football fans chanting and getting into a fight over whether or not their teams winning goal should have been allowed or not…cracked ribs and a busted nose are they really worth it to how much that goal means to their wider life…yet they do it. Is it really just pride the Greeks are fighting for because they didn’t seem all that proud of the name Macedonia prior to early mid 1988. By the way to do the name change then they probably started thinking about it in 1987 when there Serb buddies would have given them that sinking phone call that they wont be able to hold Yugoslavia much longer and the whole place is going to explode.

If it is true as claimed by the Greeks that they have Always felt proud of Macedonia and being Macedonian while equally being Greek as Macedonians are Greek and that the label Province of Northern Greece was only for administrative reasons as it also included Thrace then why not just keep using it…there is a lot of expense renaming literally everything…as people already know from school that Macedonia is Greek. Maybe the truth lies in the fact that while Yugoslavia existed the Macedonians were gagged from speaking and promoting their version of the truth about Macedonia and Greece had no benefit in raising the Macedonian issue further than everyone knows Macedonia is Greek just look it up in any school book or encyclopaedia and those other people are just delusional. Why not keep pumping this line it worked for decades…because when you lie keep it as simple as you can as too many details can lead to too many questions.

Believability do ability and politics ie what’s in it for me are the three key issues to winning the name issue fortunately we have all three and thanks largely to the guy some of you want to crucify.

Believability is just what is or a good lie repeated enough times until it becomes believable. The smoking gun hasn’t been found yet…ie like something carved in stone saying I waz ear in Macedonian even if it is in Greek letters or whatever letters but there is a mountain of supporting evidence as many of you have collated in the History section of this site…believability convinces other countries to support us and as we know 131 countries to date do but this didn’t happen by magic…and sorry to burst your bubble…or only because of this sites efforts although rest assured I am fairly confident a lot of people have been coming here to read the counter arguments to the Greek lines that everyone has heard. The bulk of the credit has to go to the currant government who since getting into power have been clocking up the frequent flyer miles going to see every man and his dog to argue our case. This state of play is truly disgusting as many of you have said in the past is there any other country on earth or for that matter the history of this earth who has had to argue their case for just to be called by the name they want to be called by. Macedonia shouldn’t have to do this but the fact is it does and Gruevski and Co. have not been too proud to do it.

Do ability might not be a very technical sounding name and maybe you can come up with a better one but what I mean by it is are you capable of doing stuff…in other words are you worth bothering with or should we just let your betters dominate you because quite frankly not many people give a flying f to invest a Lot of time effort an money ONLY for the truth because lets face it if Martians came down and blew up Macedonia and in an instant Macedonia ceased to exist would the world stop spinning or would everyone else’s daily lives change in any significant way…let me give you a hint…probably not but by rapidly reforming Macedonia to being wester compatible and forward thinking…Gruevski founded the Brokerage Association of the Republic of Macedonia in 1998 as its president and made the first transaction at the Macedonian Stock Exchange…quote Wiki…and Macedonia today has a relatively high standing in business rankings …and proving herself as an outstanding ally both militarily and fighting drug and human trafficking ect shows Macedonia as worth keeping around. This has the added advantage of distant countries taking notice of Macedonia and thinking your not behaving like low life thieving cretins maybe there’s some truth in what you have to say about your name and maybe I should look into this and maybe there’s some good business to do with you in it for me.

Politics. What can one say about politics…lies back flips deceit treachery making face…maybe I left something out…all the things that make the world go round…the Beatles were high on drugs when they said love is all you need. People are always thinking what’s in it for me and out comes Politics…how can I benefit from my association with these Macedonians and what’s it going to cost me or better still someone else for me to benefit. By being Believability and showing Do Ability gives ammunition to politics. Case in point China wants to open a computer manufacturing company in Macedonia when Macedonia enters the eu because as an eu member their computer company would pay far less in taxes and duties than importing the computers from China directly. Why choose Macedonia…Do Ability ie low wages low taxes low government interference and a highly educated and motivated young population. Is Macedonia getting into the eu even a doable thing or are we wasting our time…Believability makes this proposition an easy…or should I say easier… sell and hence within the realm of possibility…notice truth for truths sake isn’t rating a mention. So how can China help Macedonia get into the eu. Macedonia presents her case to other countries and the truth stands out above the Greek lies and they say we believe you and by the way what’s in it for us to publicly say I believe you or just keep going along with the Greek lie. China steps in with aid and joint ventures with these countries and secures some more natural resources for China and makes a pretty penny in the process. The country then announces they are the x country to recognise Macedonia. As the number of countries who recognise Macedonia grows the un and eu start looking proportionally stupider and have to come up with a solution to the name problem and pressure is put on Greece to compromise. Notice the aim is for Macedonia to get in the eu and New or Northern ect Macedonia would do just as good so before the momentum of countries recognising Macedonia becomes too great the pressure is on Macedonia to compromise. Remember Gruevski saying not so long ago the pressure for Macedonia to compromise was extremely intense. Its kind of like when selling something and you only have one buyer and his low offer comes with a take it or leave it but as soon as other buyers show up…and the more the better…the pressure is reversed on the buyer to give in to your asking price and maybe higher.

Gruevski and Co. have achieved all the above and for this are worth at least a little of our praise or at least holding off on gathering a mob with pitchforks and a hanging noose. So what’s with the doublespeak in the above interview and everywhere else for that matter why not just say it clearly and unambiguously and move on…because politics is a bitch and one of the job descriptions of the front man is to do a song and dance act long enough for things in the background to happen. Gruevski is good but I haven’t yet seen him do the dancing Boris.

YouTube - Highlights Boris Yeltsin (Funny moments)

[Bill77]

Gruevski is good but I haven’t yet seen him do the dancing Boris.

YouTube - Highlights Boris Yeltsin (Funny moments)

LOL....

Acording to some, he would most likely to do the Zorba.

As the poms used to say........Gorrd Blyme.

[rujnovino]

Folks, the only thing that remains a major problem is the United States of America who are forcing this ethnic cleansing issue - total racists
SAY NEVER!

What makes you think the US is forcing the name dispute more than Greece's EU friends? The US recognized Macedonia under the Republicans, and seem pretty disinterested in the whole Balkans under the Democrats. But Sarkozy and other like him are another story completely - treating the Greeks with kid gloves politically, because their big banks are heavily invested in toxic Greek bonds, etc..., teamed up with the anti-EU-expansion parties in Germany, etc

[Soldier of Macedon]

Are you aware of the referendum when that recognition actually took place? The loss of our integrity as a state and people was the price for this recognition.

[Pelister]

Reading the whole interview, I don't get the sense of a sell out, in one part he indicates his dislike for any geographic determinant in our name, as for his idea of a compromise with Greece, I can only beleive at this point as it has often been put on the table before, it's a bilateral solution he seeks, not one in which the name Macedonia is effected internationally.. at least I hope I'm right

Will be watching carefully for any future developments

In the mean time pushing hard to make the people of Macedonia think about pulling out of these negotiations all together, just as MHRMI and AMHRC are currently doing by opening up the debate in Macedonian society, it's a good strategy for the diaspora in my opinion

He has never made it clear what terms he is negotiating. Is he negotiating a bilateral agreement? Is he negotiating something else? He has been very obscure and ambiguous about it. I think very deliberately. We have always known he wanted to change the name, but what is he really negotiating? Don't Macedonians have a right to know, everything? After all it is their historical and political identity on the chopping board right now. It is Gruevski who has put it there, no one else. It should be a deep concern to all Macedonians that Gruevski has been doing more than negotiating our identity. He finds it acceptable to be negotiating with the Greeks restrictions and limitations (from a legal point of view) on the use of the name 'Macedonia'. Can you imagine not being able to label a jar of Jam as 'Made in Macedonia'. That is what he is negotiating. Does Gruevski even have the authority to do such a thing? Dan, surely if the Macedonian people are against all negotiations and clearly they are, as the government representative Gruevski has an obligation to stop them immediately? Isn't he exposing us? Was Macedonia ever historically Greek? Have Greek always been Macedonians too? Gruevski is a shifty snake. He knows the people are against it, which was why he never bothered to get their authority before exposing us in such a reckless and irresponsible way, as he has done. Gruevski's personal meddling and interference in our historical and political identity has raised other very serious issues. Why isn't the 1991 referendum good enough? Do the Greeks have a valid case? Are the terms that we have no right to be simply 'Macedonians' at all acceptable? I find what is happening right now morally and legally fking outrageous.

[rujnovino]

Are you aware of the referendum when that recognition actually took place? The loss of our integrity as a state and people was the price for this recognition.

Well, its true that the US and the EU opposed the referendum, but the reality is that referendum was defeated because the people did not come out to vote in sufficient numbers.

I think it's a bit rich to blame Uncle Sam for all of our problems - we need to look in the mirror.

As for outside interference, the Balkans is the EU's backyard, and they have let their Greek dog run wild. Sure, the Americans pursue their interests everywhere, just like any other empire, but don't you think the EU is more complicit in pressuring the Macedonian identity?

If the Americans send a note, the Greeks read it and they reply politely. But the Europeans write Greece's notes for them. Brussels is paying the rent and putting food on the table in Greece. If there was a political will in Europe to shut those goat herders up, they would shut up immediately.

[rujnovino]

everything has its price. His soul can be bought for Greek dollars. Macedonia does not have a strong selfless patriotic leader, who will lead his people, both governments are corrupt and hell-bent in destroying us, 130 countries acknowledge Macedonia, as Macedonia. Yet the games continue. When he retires in yankee doodie land with his offspring and watches the demise of the Republic being over run with shiptars, then hopefully he will be ostracised or some really pissed off Macedonian takes his life, then the dollars he pockets from selling out wont matter to him.
Gruevski and co will go down in Macedonian history, I agree, but not for the good of Macedonia, but for selling his soul and his people to the devil

Interesting... I didn't think this was a forum where murder was advocated so openly. How pathetic.

[makedonche]

Interesting... I didn't think this was a forum where murder was advocated so openly. How pathetic.

Rujnovino
Welcome to the MTO!

I think your'e being a little harsh above, Julie is painting a scenario as opposed to advocating murder.

[Big Bad Sven]

Well, its true that the US and the EU opposed the referendum, but the reality is that referendum was defeated because the people did not come out to vote in sufficient numbers.

I think it's a bit rich to blame Uncle Sam for all of our problems - we need to look in the mirror.

As for outside interference, the Balkans is the EU's backyard, and they have let their Greek dog run wild. Sure, the Americans pursue their interests everywhere, just like any other empire, but don't you think the EU is more complicit in pressuring the Macedonian identity?

If the Americans send a note, the Greeks read it and they reply politely. But the Europeans write Greece's notes for them. Brussels is paying the rent and putting food on the table in Greece. If there was a political will in Europe to shut those goat herders up, they would shut up immediately.

Kind of like how Uncle sam lets his shiptar dogs run wild in the balkans hey

Obama is in bed with the grks unfortunately, but in saying that George Bush was no better. We did everything to try get Ukraine and Georgia into NATO but didnt even mention a thing about macedonia's veto by grease.

In the end you americans are just as bad as the EU when it comes to supporting your spoilt little brat, grease

But i agree with you on the referendum, you can only blame the macedonians for not giving a fuck and instead of voting for their freedom, they were getting pissed with their shiptar "friends" and waving american flags. Hopefully next time around the macedonians dont get easily fooled by american false promises or some of Obama's jive talking

[George S.]

BBs recognition has a price its called compromise.Macedonia would have been told to shut up & capitulate or be swollen up by another country.Allready we got greater albania.No wonder the politicians are cooperating because the writing is on the wall.

[julie]

Welcome Vino. Pathetic is the enforced Albanians by the US upon RoM. Pathetic is disarming the Macedonians and arming the shiptari, by uncle sam of course. Call me pathetic again. I dont advocate murder.. your country does.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Interesting... I didn't think this was a forum where murder was advocated so openly. How pathetic.

Interesting, an individual that generalises and paints all members here with the same brush based on the hypothetical comment of one.....very clinical, well done.

I think it's a bit rich to blame Uncle Sam for all of our problems - we need to look in the mirror.

Where have I blamed "Uncle Sam" for all of our problems? You've generalised again, smart cookie you are.

Sure, the Americans pursue their interests everywhere, just like any other empire, but don't you think the EU is more complicit in pressuring the Macedonian identity?

They're both as bad as each other. Trying to blame the EU while ignoring what the US has done (or visa-versa), demonstrates bais, ignorance, or both.

[rujnovino]

Rujnovino
Welcome to the MTO!

I think your'e being a little harsh above, Julie is painting a scenario as opposed to advocating murder.

Thanks

yes, she's a painting a scenario, but also hoping someone kills the prime minister in that scenario... I don't think it's right to hope for people to get killed in this way...

[rujnovino]

Welcome Vino. Pathetic is the enforced Albanians by the US upon RoM. Pathetic is disarming the Macedonians and arming the shiptari, by uncle sam of course. Call me pathetic again. I dont advocate murder.. your country does.

Sorry, when I read that you hoped someone killed the prime minister, I misunderstood that for meaning that you hoped someone killed the prime minister. My mistake...