Nikola Gruevski

[The LION will ROAR]

Macedonian Politicians should grow some balls..
How about they start with putting Large billboards across all our borders with this Message..

Stop this Negotiation..!!!!!!!!!!!!
Changing the NAME will be the biggest mistake in Macedonian History...

[Makedonetz]

what can they call it?? formerly known as FYROM.....we need to sit these damn pig headed greeks down and expose them for the lies and treason they have done for so many years to our country. We need to put the fear in their hearts, and then hopefully things go our way and some progress can be made.

[Prolet]

Jankovska, To me Nikola Gruevski is a junak and if he was a traitor he would have changed our name years ago. You saw the topic it said Ili Makedonija ili Nisto which means he is fully committed to keeping our name.

Volk, Why is it that so many people are turning on Nikola Gruevski when he is main reason why we still have our name? Nikola Gruevski is making huge progress in Macedonia finally we are starting to look like a country he's brought in laws,reforms for the good of the Macedonian People the transition period is finally over, its a massive process that will take alot of time,money and effort.

Jankovska, Im not getting payed by him at all im simply giving credit where its due, you dont seem to like anybody tell me something who do you trust? Is everyone a traitor to you?

[Risto the Great]

Jankovska, To me Nikola Gruevski is a junak and if he was a traitor he would have changed our name years ago. You saw the topic it said Ili Makedonija ili Nisto which means he is fully committed to keeping our name.

No, he said "If it is not Macedonia, we go to a referendum" in as many words. Do you deny this?

[osiris]

so far he is neither a junak or a sell out.

[Mikail]

I don't agree with taking this decision to a referendum.

Gruevski has said he would take it to a referendum before. We all hoped it would never come to this! Here we are staring at the possibilities in the face again.

The pressure he has been facing around this issue has been huge.

Do you all think he would do this if there was any other option?

I know we all say and I stand behind turning our backs on the name negotiations. Can he afford to do this at this stage?

Many suggestions have been put forward, the best and most practical being taking a vote on the issue at the UN. It was never exercised.

Is the will of the people going to end this once and for all?

I can guarantee my Baba will vote the right way if it comes to this. For the rest, I can only pray!

[Prolet]

http://www.sitel.com.mk/online-tv/nie

Here is a recent interview with Gruevski on Sitel, i advise everybody to watch it.

[Risto the Great]

We have just read even more recent statements from Gruevski. You are only as good as your most recent statement in politics Prolet. Macedonia needs someone who will stand up and fight for our identity ... not someone who says, we will have a referendum if other people tell us what to call ourselves. What a sad joke.

[fyrOM]

People there are only two reasons to go to a referendum
1. You know the outcome
When you know the outcome of a referendum you then hold one to legitimise your position so you can say see its not just the government it’s the will of the people.

2. You absolutely have to
You would never have a referendum where you didn’t know the outcome beforehand otherwise everyone will wave it in your face and say you might not like it but it’s the will of the people. You are then left on the back foot trying to prove the referendum is false and was manipulated. The first problem is can you do this and the second is even if you can it leaves doubt and a rallying flag for your opponent to muster the troops ie we won and your trying with trickery to take it back. This scenario leads to unrest at best and civil war at worst. We know how elections and so by defacto referendums can be manipulated. The USA has all but admitted their previous efforts in rigging elections in South America. In the census thread it was reported there are errors in the data showing an unnaturally high disproportion of adults registered to vote. This does not bode well for any referendum.

Why did Gruevski talk of a referendum and at the same time say he would vote NO. Read between the lines. If it were upto me it would be Macedonia or nothing leaving out but will it be left upto me
.
"If the proposal of the name North Makadonija, to be delivered zvaničnio negotiator Matthew Nimetz, the UN accepts it, I will put this proposal to a referendum and recommend people to vote against him," said Macedonian Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski.

Notice if the proposal to be delivered by negotiator Matthew Nimetz the un accepts it. Doesn’t sound like it is much his choice. Remember in my previouse post I said their point of view is we gave you money then there will come a time for hows about it and then we either drop our daks or run. This is Gruevskis plan B.

If the referendum is forced upon us he has been trying to make it as difficult as possible for any party to manipulate the results. Internaly the census is to fix up the electoral roll and if you remember he rearmed the police and special police and externaly he has been encouraging the diaspora which can be counted on to vote NO to get their papers in order and even force the ones who come on holiday to do it. He is silently screaming at us GET READY PEOPLE.

It’s the plot you see in many movies the hero says to the others to go ahead while he battles the enemy knowing he has a slim chance at best he rigs the path the enemy needs to take with explosives as a last ditch attempt to stop the enemy. A kind of you may get me but fuck you back. Maybe you will say I have been watching too many movies and maybe I have but everything that has physicaly happened or is happening has been linked in a progressive logical story. If you can think of a better explanation then tell everyone I would love to hear it or get your papers in order to vote NO.

[fyrOM]

Im with The Lion will ROAR lets have more of those posters everywhere.

[Pelister]

Why hold a referendum? Didn't the 1991 referendum count?

Why are we even negotiating our identity?

Do these Greeks have a legitimate claim? Do they have a claim that is "equal" to ours?

Are the terms that Greece, and Europe have put to us fair? Are they just?

[Pelister]

Gruevski has been deliberately ambiguous on the whoe "name issue". He has kept the Macedonian people in the dark. He has not asked them whether they want their identity on the negotiating table.

Now he is going to put this issue back onto the Macedonian people?

The whole process stinks of a betrayal of massive proportions.

[fyrOM]

Volk belive me I am not trying to be offensive. I would love to see Macedonia being called the Republic of Macedonia and nothing more. Also I would like the Macedonian identity to be recognised. I actualy do smoke but nothing more than cigarets and the occational cigar. The you are a kind of Macedonian is the latest line being pushed about. How many times have you heard we are all so mixed up no one group can claim direct links to any goup from antiquity. Funny line of progression since the greeks have been saying exactly that for as far back as I can remember and from what I have read since Greece was created in 1823. This is a fundamental shift. Why. So they can say you slavs merged in with the Macedonians in the north while the rest of the Macedonians merged in with the Greeks. We are all a kind of Macedonian but since the ancient Macedonians were greek you lot and you language needs to be not just Macedonian - hows about north Macedonian. See you still end up being called Macedonian. This is to make it more paletable to the Macedonian people while at the same time saying to the world see we recognise them and we are so good we are willing to share the name Macedonian. If the argument that there is no link to antiquity is accepted and we persist we want to be call Macedonians then we are made out to be trying to monopolise a name which we just said in the argument cannot be monopolised. You are unreasonable pricks not to be taken seriously as you cannot accept serious logical argument ie we are so mixed up no one group can claim a direct link to any one ancient group. This is the trap they are presenting.

[Prolet]

Risto, Nikola Gruevski is on schedule and i think he answered many questions that some people on this forum had. First of all many VMRO members were arrested in Operation Metastaza not only there but in Zmijsko Oko too. He Makes it perfectly clear that he will not allow anybody to use the VMRO party to commit crimes and break laws this is what we discussed with Jankovska earlier and Grujo said it again and again, remember the motto koj ke se fati ke plati.

Gruevski is doing everything right this is why they are after him but as the old saying goes Kucinata Lajat a Karavanot si vrvi.

Risto, You had alot of respect for Gruevski once where has it gone? You dont just like somebody one day and then not like him the next he hasdnt done anything wrong in order to loose that trust. Like i mentioned earlier, The Greeks are painting this picture to the EU and UN Negotiator Matthew Nemetz that Nikola Gruevski is some sort of a hard core nationalist and when they come to Skopje and realize that its not the case they come out with a different picture not like the one they had earlier.

Gruevski has never once come out and indicated in anyway that he will change our name, a referendum is not going to change anything its only going to waste time,money and effort but should we be forced some way to a referendum i would make sure i vote NO.

I'll give an example, the Norwegian Government thought it would be a good idea for Norway to join the EU so they held a referendum and the citizens of Norway voted against the country joining the EU so they didnt join, however the Government there could have easily gone ahead and join against the will of the people but they didnt do this, the Danes did the same thing about joining the EuroZone so lets look at it in another way if Nikola Gruevski said lets ask the people of Macedonia if they want to change our name and 90% say they dont then he comes back with the results and says sorry we're not changing our name then the Greeks wont have a leg to stand on.

If a referendum is held i think these two questions should be asked.

1: Do you want to change our name to Republic of Northern Macedonia

2: Do you want any name change whats so ever

Once both boxes are ticked as no then there is no need to hold anymore referendums because we cant keep on having referendums each year that Matthew Nemetz presents to us so this year Northern Macedonia, next year Upper Macedonia etc etc fuck that we have one referendum and that its we make it loud and clear. This is if there is a referendum i would rather if we dont have one, we cant loose our dostoinstvo under any circumstances.

[indigen]

so far he is neither a junak or a sell out.

Remember 2001 ---> Ramkoven Dogovor? He voted for it and now implements it to the letter!

Also, remember that he was a key member of L. Georgivski's bugaroman government and he did not oppose any of LGs anti-Macedonian policies or that of his henchmen (quite a few still currently in key positions in his party and/or state institutions) at the time.

Gruevski, IME, QUALIFIES very well as a sellout - no ifs and no buts!