Nikola Gruevski

[Soldier of Macedon]

Pelister, I find this assertion about Gruevski, not only weak, but uncorroborated. Mate, if this is the information that I have been waiting to see from you concerning Gruevski's apparent 'betrayal' of the Macedonian people, then I am disappointed to say the least.

Some of the assertions you have made about the UMD are far more credible, some, not all, however, all that I have seen from you regarding Gruevski has been little more than assumptions and over-interpretations.

Many patriotic Macedonians feel as if the EU and NATO intergration path is the right one to follow, that does not make them any less patriotic - The issue here is the means of how we enter these organisations. Some aren't willing to sellout yet wish to force the issue, others are quite happy for a quick compromise, others still don't want a bar of any of it. There needs to have a distinction here so that people aren't grouped or regarded incorrectly.

[Pelister]

Pelister, I find this assertion about Gruevski, not only weak, but uncorroborated. Mate, if this is the information that I have been waiting to see from you concerning Gruevski's apparent 'betrayal' of the Macedonian people, then I am disappointed to say the least.

Some of the assertions you have made about the UMD are far more credible, some, not all, however, all that I have seen from you regarding Gruevski has been little more than assumptions and over-interpretations.

Many patriotic Macedonians feel as if the EU and NATO intergration path is the right one to follow, that does not make them any less patriotic - The issue here is the means of how we enter these organisations. Some aren't willing to sellout yet wish to force the issue, others are quite happy for a quick compromise, others still don't want a bar of any of it. There needs to have a distinction here so that people aren't grouped or regarded incorrectly.

I am with you on this one.

I was actually trying to highlight the connection between Gruevski negotiating our historical identity, and what he aims to achieve by doing it.

The point I guess was to discuss whether negotiating our historical identity is worth admission to the E.U club.

As you aware, I have a problem with the E.U as an Institution because it has backed Greece and the terms Greece has put to Macedonia, as has NATO.

The point I was making was that Macedonians don't want us negotiating (at least most of them). As to how much they want to get into the E.U I don't know.

[Vangelovski]

SoM, what more 'info' do you need on Gruevski other than the fact that he and his DPMNE have embraced the Interim Accord and the Framework Agreement? I think a person's or organisation's position on those two agreements is a fairly good indicator of their worldview and subservient vassal politics.

DPMNE's vagueness on its position towards the name should ring a few UMD-like alarm bells. And its posturing (particularly during its Australian tour) isn't very convincing in light of their support of those agreements.

Vassal politicians in general (and DPMNE in particular) have a long history of beating their chest right up until the moment they capitulate.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Vassal politicians in general (and DPMNE in particular) have a long history of beating their chest right up until the moment they capitulate.

I agree with that, we have seen it too many times. However, I don't see Gruevski in the same light as the 'super-patriot' turn-traitors like Georgievski, Boshkovski, etc.

The UMD aren't a subsidiary of the MK gov. nor are they a member group of it or subject to the same pressures, circumstances, issues, etc. The current government picked up the pieces from the previous one, the UMD picked up nobody's pieces yet they have still given the impression that they have been compromised on some levels.

What I would like to see is some hard evidence that Gruevski has been prepared to accept a name change, not his hindsight comments after the fact. Does such evidence exist?

[Vangelovski]

I agree with that, we have seen it too many times. However, I don't see Gruevski in the same light as the 'super-patriot' turn-traitors like Georgievski, Boshkovski, etc.

The UMD aren't a subsidiary of the MK gov. nor are they a member group of it or subject to the same pressures, circumstances, issues, etc. The current government picked up the pieces from the previous one, the UMD picked up nobody's pieces yet they have still given the impression that they have been compromised on some levels.

What I would like to see is some hard evidence that Gruevski has been prepared to accept a name change, not his hindsight comments after the fact. Does such evidence exist?

I think Gruevski has accepted everything but a name change (yet). By this, I mean ALL the capitulations of the Interim Accord and the Framework Agreement. Seeing as he's come to terms with those, I don't think it will be hard for him to eventually come to terms with a name change. Though, until he does, I won't have a 'smoking gun' other than a list of all his compromises to-date.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Vangelovski, what would you have Gruevski do (if it isn't too late) were you able to influence his policies? What is the best way for Macedonia to go about this?

Also, if Macedonia is able to prevail in this artificial conflict created by Greece, would you still support Macedonia's integration into EU and NATO by the actual name of Republic of Macedonia? Or, in your mind, has this ship already sailed away? Interested in your thoughts, cheers.

[Jankovska]

I actually agree, I think Gruevski is working against the wish of most Macedonians regarding many different things not just the name.Gruevski is playing a dirty game that will cost us a lot unless we wake up now. Gruevski is preaching the EU to be the only heaven for the Macedonian people and this is very dangerous. He will not call for a referendum until he drains the Macedonians of their money, will everything and than he will call for a referendum knowing that the people will have to choose the EU over the name.

[Bratot]

What if I told you that the name was already given?

And what if I told you that the reason why we still didn't get anywhere is the Greek stage nr 2 - changing the nationality and language.

That was the actual point from which our government couldn't move further, deeper in the betrayal.

Now everybody knows that Greeks wont stop with their demands of total erasing the Macedonian name and identity.

Things have change on our side too. But still... I would never trust a politician.

[Jankovska]

What if I told you that the name was already given?

And what if I told you that the reason why we still didn't get anywhere is the Greek stage nr 2 - changing the nationality and language.

That was the actual point from which our government couldn't move further, deeper in the betrayal.

Now everybody knows that Greeks wont stop with their demands of total erasing the Macedonian name and identity.

Things have change on our side too. But still... I would never trust a politician.

Even better to give them a push to stop negotiating? But they have no balls to do that.

[Bratot]

I don't want to be the party pooper but I have my personal experience and I don't bother anymore with any political party in the Republic.

It's not about the balls Jankovska, it's in the breed we are carrying. Self-destructive incompetent spoiled greedy bastards.

[Risto the Great]

I know what you mean Bratot, but I respectfully disagree. It is not in our genes. It is our mentality, Macedonians are taught to feel inferior and Macedonia's politicians are happy to play the game for financial benefit.

Macedonian pride should be the priority for our people. When will they ever stand up!?

What happens with the mad patriotic Macedonians in Macedonia? Are they put on a leash? Why can't they force Gruevski and Co. to show their hands? Too many Yugo/Bulgaro loving sellouts running the country.

[Prolet]

Fazli Veliu: Gruevski will end up like Milosevic

Fazli Veliu will end up like Adem Jasheri

For those who dont know, Fazli Veliu is the uncle of Ali Ahmeti, he sent a letter to Gruevski voicing his demands and he wants the UCK Terrorists to get pensions.

ЗАКАНУВАЧКО ПИСМО ОД ВЕТЕРАНИТЕ НА ОНА ДО ПРЕМИЕРОТ


Велиу: Груевски ќе заврши како Милошевиќ

Албанските ученици најпрвин ќе го изучуваат албанскиот јазик, а потоа ќе ги учат и странските јазици, па и твојот јазик кој ниту ти не го познаваш добро, се вели во писмото од Здружението на борците на ОНА до премиерот Никола Груевски


Заканувачко писмо до премиерот Никола Груевски упатил во неделата Фазли Велиу, претседател на едно од Здруженијата на поранешните борци на ОНА, пратеник на ДУИ во Собранието и вујко на лидерот на партијата Али Ахмети.

Во писмото Велиу му порачува на Груевски дека "го чека истата судбина како Слободан Милошевиќ" доколку и натаму продолжи да ја води политиката на поранешниот српски претседател.
- Албанските ученици најпрвин ќе го изучуваат албанскиот јазик, а потоа ќе ги учат и странските јазици, па и твојот јазик кој ниту ти не го познаваш добро, се вели во писмото.
Здружението на поранешни ветерани на ОНА е против најновиот проект за изучување на македонскиот јазик од немнозинските етнички заедници од прво одделение.

Од Здружението бараат и итно решение за статусот на борците на ОНА. Велиу вели дека доколку Груевски и натаму ги игнорира нивните пораки, поранешните борци на ОНА дополнително ќе уврдат како ќе делуваат во иднина.
- Недозволиво е да се изучува македонскиот јазик од прво одделение кога нема услови за тоа. Децата од албанската етничка заедница на таа возраст не го знаат добро ниту сопствениот јазик. Со ова дополнително се оптоваруваат. Иако Груевски вели дека за тоа има поддршка од меѓународниот фактор, треба да знае дека тој фактор може да има влијание надвор од границите на Македонија. Овде фактор сме ние. Исто така, треба во најбрз можен рок да се реши и статусот на борците на ОНА. Како што Груевски има притисок од неговите членови, така и семејствата на борците бараат одредени бенефиции.

Се наталожи и револтот кај членовите на Здружението од случувањата и со Енциклопедијата, вели Велиу во изјава за ВЕЧЕР.
За своите потези не се консултирал со Ахмети. Се работело за личен став и став на Здружението на борците на ОНА.
- Точно е дека Ахмети е лидер на ДУИ и поранешен лидер на ОНА, но, сепак, секој има право на свој личен став, смета Велиу.

Премиерот Груевски вчера изјави дека до него не стигнало вакво писмо. Немаше реакција ниту од ВМРО-ДПМНЕ како коалициски партнер на ДУИ.

http://www.vecer.com.mk/?ItemID=D18485841C0CF941BC4C41847F28F00A

[osiris]

the only pension they deserve is in idrizovo

[Bill77]

na ke jadat kur. mamicata nina ni eden da ne ostani.

I apoligise to any lady reading this, i have to get my frustration out.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Албанските ученици најпрвин ќе го изучуваат албанскиот јазик, а потоа ќе ги учат и странските јазици, па и твојот јазик......

For the benefit of all readers, here is a translation of what this terrorist and enemy of the state is saying to the Macedonian PM:

Albanian students will at first learn the albanian language, and then they will learn foreign languages, and then your language......

This is what we deal with, these are the people who were, according to the UMD, "fighting for greater rights" - What "greater rights" are these, I wonder? I would love for UMDiaspora.org to explain to us what "rights" exactly were the ethnic Albanians lacking in Macedonia that all other minorities were provided with?

All factors count here, not just some.