Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[The LION will ROAR]

TLWR, I will include you in the rest of the CONFUSED and DELUDED bunch!

What do you think for nearly 20 years FYROM for ALL INTERNATIONAL USE IS if NOT A CHANGE OF NAME? Crawl out from under the rock you and your ilk are hiding under and smell the coffee, mate!!!

As for your claim that "many Macedonians outside of Macedonia will lose Faith and respect to their Country, Identity and culture", one would have to be TOTALLY DELUDED to think that this has not been happening SIGNIFICANTLY at every turn of major treachery by the VASSAL ruling elites in MK, starting with 1993/1995 and accelerated by the 2001 FATAL blow to national sovereignty.

indigen, I try to avoid in political debate as it's not my strong point..
You are right in what you say and I my message didn't come across right Maybe I shouldn't of posted as I rarely do on these topics..
But I can say that Macedonians have been disappointed time and time again in the last 20years..and yes it was the biggest blow 20 years ago and in 2001...
But as the saying goes " YOU LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES" ...I guess that Macedonians haven't learnt anything from this..and you wouldn't of thought they'll do the same bullshit again

[fyrOM]

What 3 options did I provide?

Anybody who continues to support Gruevski from this point onwards can only be considered one of three things: (1) a traitor, or (2) ignorant.

You are right that you didn’t say what the third options is…you left it blank…maybe it was unintentional to have 3 and that’s how I understood it but none the less took the opportunity to present to the members an alternate possible explanation for the actions. The fact of the actions in indisputable but just maybe the reason for the action is not the one that appears on face value.

I don’t believe its over until its over. Dark clouds may hang overhead and even thunder can be clapping and I wont say its over until its over…ne mi dava dusata da izlezat zborojte od usta…the identity is Not lost until I see it lost and even then I wont believe it. Its just how I am.

Eg. Just 1 example…I’ve fought councils and angry neighbors on planning permits and as long as I believed I had the law and right on my side and believed I would win I have never given up before hand and touch wood prevailed.

Maybe you guys know something I don’t but I just cannot accept the thought we have come this far to now loose the identity. Maybe I’m delusional but its what helps me get up in the morning.

[Vangelovski]

You are right that you didn’t say what the third options is…you left it blank…maybe it was unintentional to have 3 and that’s how I understood it but none the less took the opportunity to present to the members an alternate possible explanation for the actions. The fact of the actions in indisputable but just maybe the reason for the action is not the one that appears on face value.

I don’t believe its over until its over. Dark clouds may hang overhead and even thunder can be clapping and I wont say its over until its over…ne mi dava dusata da izlezat zborojte od usta…the identity is Not lost until I see it lost and even then I wont believe it. Its just how I am.

Eg. Just 1 example…I’ve fought councils and angry neighbors on planning permits and as long as I believed I had the law and right on my side and believed I would win I have never given up before hand and touch wood prevailed.

Maybe you guys know something I don’t but I just cannot accept the thought we have come this far to now loose the identity. Maybe I’m delusional but its what helps me get up in the morning.

Ozimak, do you even know who you're debating with? Your delusion is much further advanced than you think...

[Risto the Great]

I think Gruevski is playing a game of strategy here, he has offered a name that he knew the Greeks would not accept. By doing this he is playing them for fools. They look bad in the world community and Macedonia looks like it folds easily to demands .... all in the name of being hospitable. It is like he is the ultimate Super Poker Player (SPP) .... he rocks, he should go to Las Vegas and clean up! I can see him now with big gold rings with lots of bling .... a big cigar in his mouth .... shouting "samo napred" whilst the casino attendant adjusts her bunny ears.

I also like the new flag, it is really bold and vivid and the same symbol has been found on a rock in Podmochani.

And I like it when people are so thick that they like everything and assume too much.

[Soldier of Macedon]

The purpose of a dummy offer is to look good and win more out of a decision being made…in this case the ICJ and the court of public opinion. If any of you have tried to negotiate with hostile parties you’ll know what I mean.

I was going to put up three, with the third being (3) confused. But I thought it more appropriate to lump those 'confused' as either ignorant or traitors, because after all of the exposure regarding our plight, there is no excuse for 'confusion'. It is really simple. You're either there with eyes open, ignorant of what is in front of you, or a traitor. No room for shades of grey. I just forgot to change it to TWO because I was in a rush, but it is corrected now.

The quote above, in addition to the rest of your rabble about some 'dummy' offer or whatever you were on about, is your usual incoherent smoke-a-pipe-and-post clownery.

You are right that you didn’t say what the third options is…you left it blank…

You see what happens when you post under the influence of whatever you're addicted to? You're all over the place, and don't even know who you're addressing.

[julie]

OM, you are an intelligent man
Am I one of a few that can see there is no turning back? We are doomed. With a capital F.Its got nothing to do with what we want or not want to see happen, we would not be on this forum if we did not want this, however, the events of the last few weeks, wanker rubbing off our Sonce, going further down the path of annihilation, even a blind/deaf/dumb mute can see it. That and the repulsive new name he wants for us.
I cannot believe Gruevski is of Aegean descent living in RoM. He is handing us over to the Greeks, a grkoman in the first order.
The diaspora is powerless to do anything, RoM acqueisces to the manipulation of their internal affairs, things have deteriorated markedly, please can you point me to what gives you the shred of hope, that you can see a positive outcome for us.

[Big Bad Sven]

So Gruevski is officially pushing for the referendum on the name, just goes to show how much of a weak dog he is and that he cant make the hard decisions. What kind of leader is that?

Whats the bet the referendum is a “success” (no doubt due to the government doing every trick in the book to stop Macedonians from voting, shiptar intimidation and plain old Macedonian laziness) and when given the hard questions by Macedonians who DO CARE, gruevski will simply shrug his shoulders and blame the population.

[fyrOM]

I feel like Johnny Utah…Keanu Reeves…in Point Break www.imdb.com/title/tt0102685/ when out of rage because he cannot bear to loose capturing the criminal after struggling so long and coming so close jumps out of the plane with no parachute after Bohdi just to get him.

YouTube - Point Break - Last Skydiving Scene

Maybe I’m delusional but I cannot say give up.

[George S.]

if the name change goesahead then what we in the diaspora are going to do adopt a bullshit name or continue to call ourselves macedonian.I think at least in the diaspora we havesome right to identify ourselves as we want.As for the traitors who want to change our name i can't imagine what their fate will be nor do i feel any sorrow for them.I'm pretty sure gruevski is going to manupilate the results in some way for a name change.

[julie]

George, dont be surprised if Aus renames us too, from the communities established here the last 70 years, churches, and our name

[indigen]

George, dont be surprised if Aus renames us too, from the communities established here the last 70 years, churches, and our name

Technically, they did that in 1994 and the "Directive for the X-Prefix' is still on the books.

[indigen]

indigen, I try to avoid in political debate as it's not my strong point..
You are right in what you say and I my message didn't come across right Maybe I shouldn't of posted as I rarely do on these topics..
But I can say that Macedonians have been disappointed time and time again in the last 20years..and yes it was the biggest blow 20 years ago and in 2001...
But as the saying goes " YOU LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES" ...I guess that Macedonians haven't learnt anything from this..and you wouldn't of thought they'll do the same bullshit again

TLWR,
As long as we can "learn from our mistakes" (or otherwise), its all positive and lets leave it at that.

Cheers,
I.

[sydney]

considering all this it's funny how gruevski and his political party are constantly referred to as "nationalist".

[Vangelovski]

considering all this it's funny how gruevski and his political party are constantly referred to as "nationalist".

I suppose the only distinction between DPMNE and SDSM is that DPMNE pretends to be a 'nationalist' party (whatever that means for them). Journalists run with this because they think it makes them sound "smarter" if they can make a ideological distinction between political parties, no matter how uninformed it is, and then create some irrelevant commentary around it.

[Phoenix]

if the name change goesahead then what we in the diaspora are going to do adopt a bullshit name or continue to call ourselves macedonian.I think at least in the diaspora we havesome right to identify ourselves as we want.As for the traitors who want to change our name i can't imagine what their fate will be nor do i feel any sorrow for them.I'm pretty sure gruevski is going to manupilate the results in some way for a name change.

George, I would imagine a name change will be made official for international use, thereby places like Australia will adhere to the new name in all official correspondence.

The greater issue will be if Macedonia, having capitulated on the name will also capitulate on 'a name for all uses' scenario as envisaged and promoted by the greeks...this is where it will get particularly humiliating for the Macedonian's in Australia (i'm using Oz as an example).
Here in Australia, the politically connected, numerically and financially stronger greek lobby will insist that every object named 'Macedonian' today in Australia be renamed to whatever Gruevski & Co. sold to the greek side.

Slowly the greeks are stripping us of all dignity as a sovereign people, they've taken away our symbols, they're on the verge of renaming us and finally we will hand over our soul to them...not sure if anything matters after that...