Kalash / Hunza tribes & the Burushaski Language

[TrueMacedonian]

As i said in my older post,i don't believe all these people have a considerable genetical relation with both of us,that is modern Greeks and modern Macedonians.I can't say the same as regards the cultural aspect because i don't know anything about their culture.Now most Macedonians here say that we bribe them to claim ancient Greek origin.However they alredy did so long before the Greek-Macedonian name dispute started:

"It has long been known that the Kafirs themselves claim a Greek origin, or at least that some, amongst the many tribes represented by the name of Kafir, claim this distinction"
The geographical journal,1896.

http://www.google.com/search?q=It+has+long+been+known+that+the+Kafirs+themselves+claim+a+Greek+origin%2C+or+at+least+that+some%2C+amongst+the+many+tribes&btnG=%CE%91%CE%BD%CE%B1%CE%B6%CE%AE%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%83%CE%B7+%CE%92%CE%B9%CE%B2%CE%BB%CE%AF%CF%89%CE%BD&tbs=bks%3A1&tbo=1&hl=el

How can i prove that something doesn't exist?Didn't you watch the video?There are nowhere shown Kalash pupils having Greek classes.The only foreign language they are taught is English.If they learnt Greek too the Kalash teacher would have mentioned it.
As regards their language,most linguist that studied the languages of Kalash,Hunza,Burushaki e.t.c say they are closely related to Hindu and other similar languages of the vicinity.However some say there are certain words that derive from Greek:

http://books.google.com/books?id=OTMy0B9OZjAC&pg=PA302&dq=kalash+words+greek&hl=el&ei=VJcHTYi6G8vqOZ_IrcIJ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=kalash%20words%20greek&f=false

http://www.google.com/search?q=Kalas...A1&tbo=1&hl=el

I'm not going to get involved with this topic as far as the Kalash/Macedonian story of Alexander. I want to bring something to everyones attention because AT (Thessa) posted this link - http://books.google.com/books?id=K1g...tribes&f=false

but when you read what the author of the article has written it is his assumptions, not the tribes people, that the people claimed a "greek" descendency. There is not one quote from a tribesman. Actually I see alot of quotes using Strabo, Arrian, and other ancient historians. It seems that it's nothing more than a philhellene's point of view that the people assuming to be descendents of ancient Macedonians, in turn, must really mean ancient Greek. Nice try thessa. Maybe you can find similar Alexander the Great folksongs that are supposedly "greek" amongst these people?

[TrueMacedonian]

I just noticed this one here too - http://books.google.com/books?id=OTM...0greek&f=false

Thessa do you think that the "northern greek" folk costumes are really "greek" in origin? Considering that it was only in the 1920's that Macedonia became a toxic waste dump for the baptised Turks I am going to assume that the author of this book, whom I doubt even knows of the history of Macedonia in the last 200 years, doesn't necessarily mean to invoke a theory you are subtly employing here.

[Serdarot]

I checked the word "araba" from etymology dictionary cuz we use "araba" in Turkish too.

It says that the word "araba" is recorded in 12th century Turkic texts. Also Turkic "araba" means; "rraha(Scythian)", "rada"(Persian), "ratha(Sanskrit), "arrada(Arabian), "raeda(Latin).

The word "Araba" is most definitely coming from ancient people of Central Asia where nomadic people attached a wagon to the horses for the first time. So, it should be either Uralic/Altaic or Indo-Aryan/Iranian word.


Btw we use the word automobile in Turkish too(as "otomobil") but most preferred word is still "araba" for us. It seems that you keep the derivational suffix form of it in Macedonian as "araba-djia" but you don't use it`s root form "araba" anymore???

the Slovenians use "rad", beside "koles, kolesa", for wheel (i think in 1-2 dialects there), and it is also probably kept in few Macedonian dialects, i dont know them all

edit:

we use "rab-ish" as a werb , meaning "using" (something), "upo-raba" = usage in Slovenian (Slovenian is significant couse have some rare specifics that are present in few Macedonian Dialects.)

[Agamoi Thytai]

I'm not going to get involved with this topic as far as the Kalash/Macedonian story of Alexander. I want to bring something to everyones attention because AT (Thessa) posted this link - http://books.google.com/books?id=K1g...tribes&f=false

but when you read what the author of the article has written it is his assumptions, not the tribes people, that the people claimed a "greek" descendency. There is not one quote from a tribesman.

Sorry my friend,it was not my intension to falsiify anyone's statements if you mean that.However if you want the view of the Kalash themselves,it's writen on their site:

"Athanasios Lerounis came to visit Pakistan in early 90’s as traveler, when he heard about Kalasha people in Northern Pakistan sharing common historical & cultural ties with ancient Greeks ."

http://kalashapeople.org/?tag=athanasios-lerounis

[George S.]

The kalash people do not identify as greek but the greeks made an attempt in the 1990's to teach them greek & feed them propaganda that they should say they are greek.THis was attemted by direct sponsorship of the greek government.The kalash people know who they are it has nothing to do with greek as greeks are jumping the gun here.For a start the greeks don't know that the word in macedonian kalash means fair haired people & that means the same in the ancient macedonian.They have preserved some of the ancient macedonian that was passed on to them by the alexander generals.Your attempt(greeks) to go there & bullshit to the kalsh people didn't work out as these people know who they are MACEDONIAN.So stop your bullshit propaganda.Also let me warn you TM (true Macedonian) is going to demolish your BS propaganda like a ton of bricks.He is the best there is & has busted many Greek bullshit Myths!!One last thing you think that the macedonian people didn't speak macedonian & they just spoke greekbecause they were greek.We have today something like 10,0000 ancient macedonian words discovered funny how greece doesn't want people to know that.Isn't it funny how the greeks don't want the world to know that the macedonians were distinct from the greeks.Please try posting you bs elsewhere otherwise.

[Agamoi Thytai]

I just noticed this one here too - http://books.google.com/books?id=OTM...0greek&f=false

Thessa do you think that the "northern greek" folk costumes are really "greek" in origin? Considering that it was only in the 1920's that Macedonia became a toxic waste dump for the baptised Turks I am going to assume that the author of this book, whom I doubt even knows of the history of Macedonia in the last 200 years, doesn't necessarily mean to invoke a theory you are subtly employing here.

Maybe you are confusing costumes with customes?He is probably talking about the woman folk costume in the region of Rumluki.In case you don't know it,"Rumluki" is called a region between the modern prefectures of Imathia and Pieria,that is the core of the original ancient Macedonian kingdom.The name Rumluk was given to that territory by the Turks,meaning "the land of Rums (Greeks)" and it is known for the peculiar woman folk costume which you can't find anywhere else:

http://www.danzegreche.it/rumluki%20donna%20-%20macedonia.JPG

The famous German geographer Leonhard Schultze Jena was in Macedonia from 1917 untill 1922 and he wrote a book,"Makedonien landschafts und kulturbilder".Here is an interesting description of Rumluki and its woman folkcostume:

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/3543/jen107.gif

"The region of Kampania was spared from older struggles too.Its inhabitants could here proudly display their ancient peculiarity more keenly as in any other Macedonian region.The Turkish appellation Rumluki creates the impression that in this place East Roman,i.e. Greek peculiarity survived over centuries of foreign rule."

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/2153/jen112.gif

"However the costume of girls and women in this country is considered as landmark of ancient Hellenism.Girls don't bear till the age of 18 any cover on the head.Then they wear the hood,as it is shown on table VI (PAGE 36)...The whole image resembles a helmet.The area of the forehead looks the same as in the statue of Pallas Athena.It has to do with the legend,when once Alexander the Great had punished his soldiers because of cowardice and allowed the women to wear helmets".
Pictures of this folkcostume from Jena's book:

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/5066/jenkats1.gif

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/433/jenkats3.jpg

[George S.]

!917-1922 macedonia was under greek occupation the germans would say that it's greek probably paid to say.Isn't it funny you can twist it & turn it to your advantage.The greeks are very good at imitating other cultures & calling it their own.On the surface it looks like
they are right but once it's put on the spotlight for closer scrutiny then it fails all tests.In the 1920's the greeks were busy telling the world how everything was greek & even labelling macedonian customs & culture with their greekness.Remeber how denial & paranoia is their tool in trade.

[The LION will ROAR]

Macedonians in Pakistan under pressure to accept Islam

21st Oct 2011

http://kurir.mk/makedonija/vesti/46582-Makedoncite-vo-Pakistan-pod-pritisok-da-go-prifatat-Islamot

Reuters reports that the community in northwest Pakistan, known as the Kalash, which expresses the direct descendant of Alexander the Macedonian army, under strong pressure to convert to Islam because of threats from radical groups.
Some Muslims are trying to influence the Kalash to convert them and read some parts of the Koran.

Community, numbering only 3,500 among 180 million people in Pakistan is at risk of conversion by Muslim militants and the imposition of Islam, reports Reuters.

A young member of the tribe before a month had an accident. When I woke up in bed, he saw 20 Muslims around him convinced that he during the coma had accepted Islam and became Muslim.

-Some of the Muslims living here are trying to convert from our faith by reading verses from the Koran. Then the man who has read the Muslim holy book saying that he became Muslim and accepted to change religion, told Reuters, Shingeraj Bibi, mother of a boy who similarly became a Muslim.

Kalash are polytheists, believing in many gods. Their religion consists of sacrificing animals. Usually in front of their ancient gods, Kalash offered goats. Because we are dealing with kozarstvo, and planting corn. Several teachers have many enemies.

[Dimko-piperkata]

Under threat: Conversions threatening Pakistan’s ‘Macedonian’ tribe



BUMBURET VALLEY: Nestled among the valleys of Pakistan’s mountainous northwest, a tiny religious community that claims descent from Alexander the Great’s army is under increasing pressure from radicals bent on converting them to Islam.


The Kalash, who number just about 3,500, are spread over three valleys along the border with Afghanistan. For centuries they practiced polytheism and animal sacrifice without interference from the Muslim majority.
But now they are under increasing danger from proselytising Muslim militants just across the border, and a hard line interpretation of Islam creeping through mainstream society – as it was discovered.
After falling unconscious during a car accident, a mid-20s member of the paramilitary Chitral Scouts woke to find that people with him had converted him to Islam.
“Some of the Muslim people here try to influence the Kalash or encourage them by reading certain verses to them from the Quran,” said his mother, Shingerai Bibi.
“The men that were with him read verses of the Quran and then when he woke up they said to him, ‘You are a convert now’. So he converted.”
The conversion was a shock for his family. But they were lucky compared with other religious minorities under threat from growing religious conservatism that is destabilising the country.
In May 2010, more than 80 Ahmadis were killed in attacks on two mosques in Lahore.
Then in March this year, Shahbaz Bhatti, the Christian minorities’ minister whose job it was to protect groups like the Kalash, was assassinated outside his home in the capital city in an attack claimed by the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan.
Smooth coexistence
The lush green Kalash valleys have been a magnet for tourists, both for the scenery and for the people, who are indigenous to the area.
Most are fair and with light eyes, which they say proves their descent from the army of Alexander of Macedonia that passed through the area in the 4th century BC to invade India. The community brews its own wine and women are not veiled.
But the smooth co-existence between the Kalash and Muslims has been fading in recent months and the area is suffering from many of the religious tensions marring the rest of Pakistan.
The conversions are causing splits among the Kalash – converts become outcasts overnight, described by many as ‘dead to their families’.
“When a Kalash converts we don’t live with them in our houses anymore,” said farmer Asil Khan, sitting on a neighbour’s balcony.
“Our festivals and our culture are different. They can’t take part in the festivals or the way we live.”
Some in the area are so concerned that they believe segregation is the only way to protect the Kalash.
“We should move the Muslims out of the valley to make more room for the Kalash,” said Shohor Gul, a Kalash member who lives in Rumbur valley.
The subject of Kalash festivals is raised often in these narrow valleys, where carefully cultivated corn crops cover what flat land exists, and the Kalash community’s distinctive wooden houses terrace the valley walls.
Held to usher in seasonal change or to pray for a good harvest, Kalash festivals include hypnotic dancing and animal sacrifice, fuelled by the grape wine with which the Kalash lace their gatherings.
Converts to Islam say, though, that these rituals quicken the decision to leave the Kalash.
“The main thing wrong in the Kalash culture are these festivals,” said 29-year-old convert Rehmat Zar. “When someone dies the body is kept in that house for three days. Muslims usually bury people the day they die.”
Zar added of the Kalash: “They slaughter up to a hundred goats and the family are mourning – but those around them are celebrating, beating drums, drinking wine and dancing. Why are they celebrating this? That’s wrong.”
Not all Muslims
Not all of the area’s Muslims feel this way. Qari Barhatullah is the Imam at the Jami Mosque in Bumburey Valley’s Shikanandeh village.
He stresses that many of the valley’s Muslims value the Kalash’s contributions to the area’s tourism industry and contends that Kalash festivals run parallel to their own.
He admits though that there is tension between the two communities. Unveiled Kalash girls in colourful homemade skirts and head-dresses grow up alongside Muslim women covered by the all-enveloping burqas.
The Kalash girls are also free to marry who they chose, in a country where arranged marriages are common.
“We do support the Kalash – Islam teaches us respect for other religions – but there are people here, maybe they are not as educated – who don’t like the Kalash because of their religion,” Barhatullah said.
Akram Hussain oversees the Kalasha Dur, a cultural centre devoted to promoting and protecting the Kalash culture, a stunning structure of elegantly crafted carved wooden beams and stone where Kalash children are educated. It also houses a library, clinic and museum, which are open to both the Kalash and Muslim communities.
“Some of the Muslims here don’t want to educate the Kalash people. They don’t want us to have an education,” he said.
Without more schools that cater exclusively to the Kalash, though, Hussain worries his community and culture will disappear.
“There are few Kalash teachers and there aren’t schools for older children, so they go to the secondary schools and learn about Islam. The Muslim teachers are brainwashing them. They tell the children that Islam is the only right way and that we are going to hell,” he said.
A provincial spokesman said the regional government is funding development projects for the Kalash and that Pakistan was committed to protecting their unique heritage.
“We have set aside Rs15 million over three years for projects such as improving roads, water supply systems and community centres,” said Ahmad Hassan. “Whatever the Kalash say they need.”
Others in the Kalash valleys say development should cease and insist, the adoption of Islam should continue, despite the impact on the Kalash culture. Zar, the Kalash convert, says his eventual aim is to convert his entire community to Islam.
“I’m trying my best to convert many of the Kalash myself. I’m trying to convert as many as I can,” he said.
“The people who are trying to preserve the Kalash culture are doing wrong. They are committing a mistake. The Kalash should convert to Islam because this is the real, and last, religion”.
Published in The Express Tribune, October 21st, 2011.


http://tribune.com.pk/story/278333/u...edonian-tribe/

[makedonche]

Dimko
Very interesting!
There is also an article on REUTERS - probably the same one!

[George S.]

that has been a danger of them converting to islam as they had a spirutial leader who was a muslim.Even the greeks sent a teacher & missionaries to cnvert the kalash by teaching them greek & telling them they were greek But they knew that alexander was not greek & was a macedonian.

[George S.]

Under threat: Conversions threatening Pakistan’s ‘Macedonian’ tribe

Under threat: Conversions threatening Pakistan’s ‘Macedonian’ tribe

http://tribune.com.pk/story/278333/u...edonian-tribe/

BUMBURET VALLEY: Nestled among the valleys of Pakistan’s mountainous northwest, a tiny religious community that claims descent from Alexander the Great’s army is under increasing pressure from radicals bent on converting them to Islam.

The Kalash, who number just about 3,500, are spread over three valleys along the border with Afghanistan. For centuries they practiced polytheism and animal sacrifice without interference from the Muslim majority.


But now they are under increasing danger from proselytising Muslim militants just across the border, and a hard line interpretation of Islam creeping through mainstream society – as it was discovered.


After falling unconscious during a car accident, a mid-20s member of the paramilitary Chitral Scouts woke to find that people with him had converted him to Islam.
“Some of the Muslim people here try to influence the Kalash or encourage them by reading certain verses to them from the Quran,” said his mother, Shingerai Bibi.
“The men that were with him read verses of the Quran and then when he woke up they said to him, ‘You are a convert now’. So he converted.”


The conversion was a shock for his family. But they were lucky compared with other religious minorities under threat from growing religious conservatism that is destabilising the country.
In May 2010, more than 80 Ahmadis were killed in attacks on two mosques in Lahore.
Then in March this year, Shahbaz Bhatti, the Christian minorities’ minister whose job it was to protect groups like the Kalash, was assassinated outside his home in the capital city in an attack claimed by the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan.


Smooth coexistence


The lush green Kalash valleys have been a magnet for tourists, both for the scenery and for the people, who are indigenous to the area.


Most are fair and with light eyes, which they say proves their descent from the army of Alexander of Macedonia that passed through the area in the 4th century BC to invade India. The community brews its own wine and women are not veiled.


But the smooth co-existence between the Kalash and Muslims has been fading in recent months and the area is suffering from many of the religious tensions marring the rest of Pakistan.
The conversions are causing splits among the Kalash – converts become outcasts overnight, described by many as ‘dead to their families’.


“When a Kalash converts we don’t live with them in our houses anymore,” said farmer Asil Khan, sitting on a neighbour’s balcony.


“Our festivals and our culture are different. They can’t take part in the festivals or the way we live.”


Some in the area are so concerned that they believe segregation is the only way to protect the Kalash.


“We should move the Muslims out of the valley to make more room for the Kalash,” said Shohor Gul, a Kalash member who lives in Rumbur valley.


The subject of Kalash festivals is raised often in these narrow valleys, where carefully cultivated corn crops cover what flat land exists, and the Kalash community’s distinctive wooden houses terrace the valley walls.


Held to usher in seasonal change or to pray for a good harvest, Kalash festivals include hypnotic dancing and animal sacrifice, fuelled by the grape wine with which the Kalash lace their gatherings.


Converts to Islam say, though, that these rituals quicken the decision to leave the Kalash.
“The main thing wrong in the Kalash culture are these festivals,” said 29-year-old convert Rehmat Zar. “When someone dies the body is kept in that house for three days. Muslims usually bury people the day they die.”


Zar added of the Kalash: “They slaughter up to a hundred goats and the family are mourning – but those around them are celebrating, beating drums, drinking wine and dancing. Why are they celebrating this? That’s wrong.”


Not all Muslims


Not all of the area’s Muslims feel this way. Qari Barhatullah is the Imam at the Jami Mosque in Bumburey Valley’s Shikanandeh village.
He stresses that many of the valley’s Muslims value the Kalash’s contributions to the area’s tourism industry and contends that Kalash festivals run parallel to their own.
He admits though that there is tension between the two communities. Unveiled Kalash girls in colourful homemade skirts and head-dresses grow up alongside Muslim women covered by the all-enveloping burqas.


The Kalash girls are also free to marry who they chose, in a country where arranged marriages are common.


“We do support the Kalash – Islam teaches us respect for other religions – but there are people here, maybe they are not as educated – who don’t like the Kalash because of their religion,” Barhatullah said.


Akram Hussain oversees the Kalasha Dur, a cultural centre devoted to promoting and protecting the Kalash culture, a stunning structure of elegantly crafted carved wooden beams and stone where Kalash children are educated. It also houses a library, clinic and museum, which are open to both the Kalash and Muslim communities.


“Some of the Muslims here don’t want to educate the Kalash people. They don’t want us to have an education,” he said.


Without more schools that cater exclusively to the Kalash, though, Hussain worries his community and culture will disappear.


“There are few Kalash teachers and there aren’t schools for older children, so they go to the secondary schools and learn about Islam. The Muslim teachers are brainwashing them. They tell the children that Islam is the only right way and that we are going to hell,” he said.


A provincial spokesman said the regional government is funding development projects for the Kalash and that Pakistan was committed to protecting their unique heritage.


“We have set aside Rs15 million over three years for projects such as improving roads, water supply systems and community centres,” said Ahmad Hassan. “Whatever the Kalash say they need.”


Others in the Kalash valleys say development should cease and insist, the adoption of Islam should continue, despite the impact on the Kalash culture. Zar, the Kalash convert, says his eventual aim is to convert his entire community to Islam.


“I’m trying my best to convert many of the Kalash myself. I’m trying to convert as many as I can,” he said.


“The people who are trying to preserve the Kalash culture are doing wrong. They are committing a mistake. The Kalash should convert to Islam because this is the real, and last, religion”.


Published in The Express Tribune, October 21st, 2011.



Over-emphasis of weaknesses to have opposite effect, NATO and EU remain priorities, Gruevski.

http://www.mia.com.mk/default.aspx?vId=87689522&lId=2

Skopje, 17 October 2011 (MIA) - The new tactic by certain individuals or a section of the international community to exert pressure on Macedonia over the name issue by claiming we are not doing many reforms and by over-emphasizing weaknesses is wrong, will not yield results and provide an opposite effect. This issue is not settled by force and by putting the entire pressure on one side only. However, we remain on the same priorities of NATO and EU accession and the reform path, which represent our strategic interest. Even if reforms do not give the expected results pertaining to our NATO and EU approximation, they are good for the country and improvement of the citizens' lives, says Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski in an interview with MIA.



Following is the first part of the interview, with the second one to be released on Tuesday.


Are you satisfied from the EC Progress Report for Macedonia?



Macedonia implemented numerous reforms and achieved great progress in the past year. We worked hard and with commitment. As a result, the country deservedly obtained a positive EU report, along with a confirmation of the recommendation for start of accession talks. We have received a positive report and a recommendation for three years now, which represents a great success for the citizens, institutions and all political parties. Another benefit is that noted remarks and weaknesses will produce ideas for new reforms and improvements, thus moving the country forward.



However, it seems that statements by Commissioner Stefan Fule were unusually harsh for the Government, something to which you also reacted with sharp rhetoric. Why has this happened?

It is owing to the new tactic by certain individuals or a section of the international community to exert pressure on Macedonia over the name issue. They believe that if the Government or I accept some of the Greek variants for the name settlement, then the name problem will be resolved, meaning our support will result in a successful referendum. This is a big mistake and by claiming we are not doing much reforms and over-emphasizing weaknesses, we are supposed to be put into an unpleasant situation. We are to be devalued before the public, to which this Government, but also future ones, should respond by accepting a solution at any price. I was aware of this tactic; it is not important who thought of it, whether individuals in Brussels or beyond, but we are seeing its implementation. Although I personally believe this tactic will provide an opposite effect. After a year or two, when we see the fiasco of this tactic, the two countries will be farther from a solution than now. This issue is not settled by force and by putting the entire pressure on one side only, while the other is almost pressure-free.



Therefore, we should expect such over-emphasis of weaknesses from a number of sides in the future?



Yes, from many sides. International NGOs, associations, institutions, politicians, experts, certain media. The methods are well-known and no one will be surprised. The objective is clear - pressure for settlement of the name row at any price.



Are you saying that Macedonia has no shortcomings in the judiciary, public administration, freedom of media, corruption etc?



No, on the contrary, of course there are weaknesses and need for improvements and fresh reforms, whereas each suggestion in this direction is always welcome. We do not see through pink sunglasses. There are problems; there are old problems and practices. However, it is a fact that we are working hard to improve them and we will continue to do this. In this case there is over-emphasizing of those weaknesses, which is done on purpose. This can be seen through the fact that during the meetings we have had with certain international representatives, 90 percent of the time is spent on debates over the name issue, while 10 on other topics, including the aforementioned reforms. And when they emerge at a press conference or when a press release is issued, the situation is quite different - it seems as if we have mentioned the name issue by chance, but we had talked about the public administration, the judiciary etc for 90 percent of the time.



Maybe this can serve as motivation for the Government to work harder?



The feeling of injustice cannot serve as a motivating factor with anyone. It can only create frustrations, which redirect energy. I will try to keep this energy on the right track, the one of reforms, but it will not be easy. Frustrations resulting from the feeling of injustice will surely produce certain effects that are hard to foresee. If I ask my associates to work together with me for 15 hours a day, and if this work produces results, while someone from the outside, who is supposed to give a real and fair assessment, tells you that you do not work and have no results, it hurts.



Still, you remain on the same priorities of joining EU and NATO and the path of reforms, or is there a change in this regard?



Yes. We remain on the same priorities to join EU and NATO, as well as the path of reforms, which are in the country's strategic interest. Even if reforms do not give the expected results pertaining to our NATO and E approximation, they are good for the country and improvement of the citizens' lives.



You say these developments will only cause frustration rather than motivation. If this is so, won't this have a discouraging effect?



Of course it will, but we will fight. We are working for the citizens, for those who gave us their trust and all others. This is the strength that holds us together, the thing that gives us motives to keep going. I am aware there is no justice in international politics, even less ideal justice, and we are not a bit naive or romantic in our expectations. But it is a fact that Macedonia has coped with injustice for the past 20 years. This is a historic burden, but we are obliged to change this, to stop feeling sorry for ourselves, and when we believe in true principles and values to stand firm say loud and clear 'we believe in this', and not to be silent and to wait timidly for someone to tell us what to do and how to act. Sometimes I have the feeling that certain centers of power, in whose values we believe, see our country as a child that was not planned, but came to be. Therefore, they do not feel completely obligated towards it as they should for a planned and wanted child. In time, when generations change, this will disappear. This was even more emphasized in the 1990s. These children are usually forced to fight on their own and life makes them mature earlier. Each pain produces certain benefit for the one who does the right thing.



Would you comment in the same spirit the public perception that many things that Macedonia has successfully completed are either not included in the final report or are changed into a negative form.



It is obvious that the intention was for Macedonia to get a lower grade, so that it is highly criticized and told that the recommendation would be retracted next year.

Still, Commissioner Fule did not say this will happen, but referred to its possibility.

Commissioner Fule is an experienced diplomat and he will never say this directly. However, we have also learned to read messages told by the language of diplomacy.



Are you saying that the threat will be realized and Macedonia will receive a negative report next year, regardless of its accomplishments?



If the name problem is resolved, this is highly certain, regardless of the reforms we implement. This is the message we need to understand. And we have.



Why would they do this to us?



It is easier to punish and show muscles to the weak one. They toady up to Greece, European governments fall because of Greece, and when they cannot force Greece, certain factors show us how powerful they are. I would not like to be misunderstood, that someone should have a political benefit from the crisis effects, but at least fairness and balanced approach should not be forgotten. Ultimately, we all have our own dignity and we all believe in the ideals of freedom, justice and equality.



Why are you saying they are toadying up to Greece?



There are several reasons. One of them is the fact that Greece is an EU member. Internal EU relations are regulated in a way that each country can complicate the situation for any other state. The right of veto, i.e. the consensus system enables this for many decisions. Greece has demonstrated it knows how to create problems if motivated for this. No one wants to criticize an EU member, even if it sees there is serious injustice and lack of principles towards an outside member. One ambassador of an older EU member-state depicted the EU internal relations with the phrase 'Turkish market', where everyone negotiates and one depends from the other. The second reason is that Greece, being an older and more powerful country, has a much stronger lobby.



But Greece has never been in a more sorry state than now. It kneels before its Union partners waiting for salvation.



I would say that as much as Greece is interested in saving from the crisis, the other member-states are interested too, if not more, since the financial failure of Greece will bring other Union members in the same situation. This might result in the end of the Euro and many powerful banks in the most powerful countries. This is why the international community is pretty careful with Greece regarding the name issue and the resulting blockade. They do not want to exert additional pressure to the already boiling situation in Greece, which can lead to toppling of the government, something that no one in the EU wants.



Has Alexandra Cas Granje - director for accession candidates at the European Commission's Enlargement Directorate General - provided you with some kind of explanation involving the statement by EU Commissioner Fule while handing over the report.



She told me that she didn't listen to the statement, but that she was assuming the statement was given as a sign of frustration that the name issue cannot be solved for a long time. This was a proof for me that the issue of over-emphasizing criticisms surrounding the reforms implemented in several areas is in fact due to the lack of a name row settlement. There were at least ten people in the room when she said it. Before her, many others have told me the same in informal or semi-formal meetings.



Are you condemning this?



I understand them up to a point. The European Commission is tackling an unpleasant situation. In 2009, the Commission, regardless of everything, in an honest manner recommended a start for negotiations, despite expecting problems. But, three years in a row its recommendation is ignored by the Council of EU in a bid to avoid a scandal involving a veto by Greece. This creates an unpleasant situation in the European Commission. Its officials want to find a solution. One of the solutions is to pinpoint us as being incapable and to revoke the recommendation in order to improve their own comfort. To achieve this, this year they need to lower Macedonia's assessment - despite being positive - and to pave the way for next year. They are able to do this, even though it is unfair, lacking basic principles and will only yield an unfavourable effect and bad message. In addition to this, it also somehow ruins the picture presented amongst citizens about the EU, about its principles, objectivity and fairness. On the other hand, we - the politicians - should explain to the citizens that we are moving towards a just community.



They are facing another problem - now they need to promote new countries with which negotiations should be launched and this is a good step. However, they should explain why accession talks are not being launched with Macedonia. Their justification should not be solely related to a lack of name solution, because if the name issue is the only obstacle, then the EC is in an unpleasant situation in many regards.



Probably all of this is helping the opposition?



Yes, however the opposition cannot be saved by this circumstance. Opposition members hope that with the old insincere strategy and team, old leadership, their victory will be secured by someone else. This will not happen. The opposition must understand that this is an issue of national interest. It is high time to rise above daily bickering over political affairs.

[The LION will ROAR]

further examples of the similarities of Macedonia and the Kalash & Hunza tribes

[The LION will ROAR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=_wc3jeeEOPg#!

[George S.]

They have their doubts that they are descended from the greeks.They regard themselves as macedonians.
The greeks have been very busy building schools etc & telling them they are greek.The greeks forgot what their name means .Kalesh in macedonian means darkskinned, swarthy.That's exactly what the description of the kalash people are.Kalash in macedonian is kalesh.This is an example of where the greeks have been proven wrong that the macedonian people didn't have their own language.The macedonian people supposedly only spoke greek.The truth is amazing & the kalash people have been isolated for 2300 years.They preserved their culture & they know ancient macedonian words passed on to them from the alexander the great macedonian generals..