Philiki Eteria founders most likely Vlachs & Slav

[TerraNova]

Capo D'Istria = Kapodistrias
So many choices if you want to claim Greekness.

What's your surname?

[Risto the Great]

Capo D'Istria = Kapodistrias
So many choices if you want to claim Greekness.

[TerraNova]

Is Tsakalov a 'Greek' name? Tekelis, lol

What a brilliant conclusion!
ov...hm...he is Bulgarian or Russian..or Slav.

Then 1/3 of Macedonians (or 1/5?) are Bulgarians or Russians.
Or just Slavs.You say so.

Make the connection-not official surnames in Ottoman Empire-Tsakalof moves to Odessa and lives there-takes a surname.
It's not hard ...try

Otherwise..a Slav ..of the famous Slav speaking Ioannina region was a Slav.

[TerraNova]

Ask the Macedonians any day of the week who the Macedonians were.
Hell, the Greeks did not know what they were until Lord Byron told them.

Yes..sure.
Surprisingly Philiki Eteria was founded in 1814 (Byron came in Greece,in 1821)

At the same time Macedonian schools were spread throughout Macedonia,Macedonian scholars were promoting the Macedonian idea,Macedonian culture was known all over the known world and Macedonian revolution was spread in the region....

No..not just peasants with religious and regional identity only..

[Soldier of Macedon]

4.Athanasios Tekelis (Tsakalof) (1788-1851)

Is Tsakalov a 'Greek' name? Tekelis, lol

[Soldier of Macedon]

Do you think all the revolutionaries wanted an independent or even autonomous Macedonia,or some of them wanted this autonomous Macedonia within Greater Bulgaria...when the time was right ??

The problem with VMRO is the Bulgarian propaganda from Exarch schools and churches, in which most of their members were brought up in. But people like Sandanski, Alexandrov and Delchev, regardless of questionable statements made with regard to their identity, clearly wanted an autonomous and free Macedonia.

That is the Macedonian dream, that is what most Macedonians wanted. Just like the below VMRO members:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=419

There was strong opposition from Bulgaria against me and the others..........................Hristo Chernopeev

Delchev explained: we cannot rest our hopes on foreign help, we shouldn't wait for help from Bulgaria nor from any other power, instead we need to prepare from within.............................Ivan Grcheto

I called for a collective gathering of all the village battle leaders in the village of Leshko, where I explained to them, what the work of the Internal Organisation was and what the intentions were of the Supremist Committee. I explained the matter as such, that if we submit to the Supremist Committee their people will be able to, wether they are sent by the leadership of Bulgaria and mainly the prince (as in the year 1895, when our people were the toys of the prince), or again with their own company to make some sort of gathering inside and with them to operate so that nothing serious will arise for the freedom of the Macedonians, for which the Internal Organisation is preparing...........................Sava Mihailov

We were never able to lead the battle in stages. We were for either the autonomy of Macedonia, or I don’t know what. We made big mistakes. In the year 1913, however, Bulgaria made the biggest mistake.................................Atanas Lozanchev

Don't believe everything you read, VMRO history is more complex than a simple glance at Bulgarian propagandist garbage found on the internet.

[TerraNova]

As about the topic.
The founders of Philiki Eteria were initially 4.

1.Panagiotis Anagnostopoulos (1790-1854)

From Andritsena-Peloponnese.

2.Emmanuil Xanthos (1772-1852)

From Patmos-Aegean Islands.

3.Nikolaos Skoufas (1779-1819)

From Komboti, Arta -Epirus.

4.Athanasios Tekelis (Tsakalof) (1788-1851)

From Ioannina- Epirus

all...slavs...

[TerraNova]

Our "Eastern" neighbour, is actually a more or less creation of Macedonian immigrants.

Which is naturally since Sofia was the closes center for any of our revolutioners to act for liberation of Macedonia.

If it was so...how did these "immigrants" called themselves?
And if it was so...why they ve chosen to "create Bulgaria" ...instead of their homeland...Macedonia?

Since the Turkish concentration was biggest in Macedonia it was 10 times harder to rebel against them.

Those "local riots" as you say are one each piece of the whole national struggle and they cannot be taken ignorantly since their goal was same - authonomy for Macedonia.

Do you think all the revolutionaries wanted an independent or even autonomous Macedonia,or some of them wanted this autonomous Macedonia within Greater Bulgaria...when the time was right ??

Let me remind some cases in the neighborhood ..the exact same era. Eastern Rumelia's case.
(first autonomous ..1878...then within Bulgaria 1885)

or Crete's case.
(first autonomous 1898..after rebellion...then within Greece-1912)

[Bratot]

All of the incidents you ve written except Ilinden maybe were local riots.
Not wars or revolutions.
Moreover all of them are disputed as clear national uprisings,as well as their intends and the involvement of your Eastern neighbor.

Whose propaganda is better...i cannot decide..

As about the boring albanovlahothing.
..ok these minority groups self willingly got assimilated.
1-where they 5% ...7%
Lets erase 95% then and continue your boring preaching.
2-Self identification,,? is that the core ,the n.1 argument of your government and your people about the Macedonian name issue?
Maybe it's time then to respect others' right to self identify ,before you ask it for yourself.

Our "Eastern" neighbour, is actually a more or less creation of Macedonian immigrants.

Which is naturally since Sofia was the closes center for any of our revolutioners to act for liberation of Macedonia.


Since the Turkish concentration was biggest in Macedonia it was 10 times harder to rebel against them.

Those "local riots" as you say are one each piece of the whole national struggle and they cannot be taken ignorantly since their goal was same - authonomy for Macedonia.

[Soldier of Macedon]

All of the incidents you ve written except Ilinden maybe were local riots.
Not wars or revolutions.
Moreover all of them are disputed as clear national uprisings,as well as their intends and the involvement of your Eastern neighbor.

Maybe? Who are you to make that statement more accurately than the national histiography of my people and the facts and evidence in support of the Kresna Uprising? My eastern neighbour is the reason why that uprising suffered eventual faliure, Macedonians had assisted the Russians when they went to save Serbia and create Bulgaria during the late 1870's, Pulevski even received an honourary distinction from the Russian Emperor at the time, we had all expectation that Bulgarians would assist us in our freedom, instead, they began to ruin the movement because the Macedonians were operating independently of the command which they themselves only recently received as a result of Russian innovation. You have no idea about these events which pertain to my history so I suggest you read up a little more, learn how to read Macedonian also and check the relevant sources.

..ok these minority groups self willingly got assimilated.

Which one's? Those forced to go to night school? Those that were forced to drink castor oil for speaking Macedonian? Those that were paid? You people are as pathetic as the artificial nation-building methods employed to create the 'Greek' nation, in fact, you are a living testament of how pathetic it really is.

[TerraNova]

Like the Kresna Uprising of 1878, read their Manifesto, with legendary Macedonian figures like Georgi Pulevski and Pop Berovski.

Try placing the following also in bold text:

The Ilinden Uprising of 1903 was conducted by the native Macedonian population, despite the infiltration of Bulgarian propaganda there was no foreign army there to assist us, read the Manifesto of the Krushevo Republic, all the people of Macedonia are invited to join, but the absolute majority population leading the charge were the Macedonians, the people who speak my language, practice my culture and have my identity, which is Macedonian, as it was then, as it is now.

Not Albanians, Vlachs and Macedonians who pretended to be "Hellenes".

All of the incidents you ve written except Ilinden maybe were local riots.
Not wars or revolutions.
Moreover all of them are disputed as clear national uprisings,as well as their intends and the involvement of your Eastern neighbor.

Whose propaganda is better...i cannot decide..

As about the boring albanovlahothing.
..ok these minority groups self willingly got assimilated.
1-where they 5% ...7%
Lets erase 95% then and continue your boring preaching.
2-Self identification,,? is that the core ,the n.1 argument of your government and your people about the Macedonian name issue?
Maybe it's time then to respect others' right to self identify ,before you ask it for yourself.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Like the Kresna Uprising of 1878, read their Manifesto, with legendary Macedonian figures like Georgi Pulevski and Pop Berovski.

Try placing the following also in bold text:

In Macedonia, people of the same origin, language and culture as myself today fought together many times against foreigners and enemies, that's what counts, we are the same people, regardless of the names we used or those forced upon us, our people are from where they have always been, whereas most of the population of modern Greece since its creation has come from outside of Greece or was not 'Greek' to begin with.

The Ilinden Uprising of 1903 was conducted by the native Macedonian population, despite the infiltration of Bulgarian propaganda there was no foreign army there to assist us, read the Manifesto of the Krushevo Republic, all the people of Macedonia are invited to join, but the absolute majority population leading the charge were the Macedonians, the people who speak my language, practice my culture and have my identity, which is Macedonian, as it was then, as it is now.

Not Albanians, Vlachs and Macedonians who pretended to be "Hellenes".

[TerraNova]

In Macedonia, people of the same origin, language and culture as myself today fought together many times against foreigners and enemies, that's what counts, we are the same people, regardless of the names we used or those forced upon us, our people are from where they have always been, whereas most of the population of modern Greece since its creation has come from outside of Greece or was not 'Greek' to begin with.

...like when... ?

[Soldier of Macedon]

What about them...do they were the Albanian dress ?

No they don't, the national dresses in the Balkans are bound to be similar, however, the Macedonian national dress is not the same as the Albanian national dress, whereas the Greek national dress IS the Albanian national dress. Spot the difference fluff balls.

Btw Greeks fought in several wars,and won many of them.When did your people fight the last 200 years ...?
(and i don't mean fighting in Bulgarian or even Greek and Serbian bands...)

Greeks? Which Greeks? Hellenes? Albanians? Vlachs? Slavs? What are you talking about, nearly every book about your revolution has pictures of Albanians who speak Albanian as a native tongue and are Albanian by native origins.

In Macedonia, people of the same origin, language and culture as myself today fought together many times against foreigners and enemies, that's what counts, we are the same people, regardless of the names we used or those forced upon us, our people are from where they have always been, whereas most of the population of modern Greece since its creation has come from outside of Greece or was not 'Greek' to begin with.

[TerraNova]

Or is the Albanian dress with those little fluff balls on your feet more your thing? I think, that dress, with you in it, is enough to win a few battles for "Hellenism" by simply making the opponent fall to the floor in laughter at the pathetic sight before his eyes.

What about them...do they were the Albanian dress ?
YouTube - Janino oro - Macedonian Folk Music

Btw Greeks fought in several wars,and won many of them.When did your people fight the last 200 years ...?
(and i don't mean fighting in Bulgarian or even Greek and Serbian bands...)