"They call themselves Macedonians"

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  • vicsinad
    replied
    Austria, Containing a Description of the Manners, Customes, Character and Costumes of the People of that Empire, by Charles Green, 1823, Pg. 25

    The same causes which have transferred Armenians into Austria have also brought thither Greeks, Macedonians and Albanians. The people of these different nations indeed are not numerous...

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  • vicsinad
    replied
    From "A Sketch of the Political History of Ancient Greece" by AHL Heeren, 1829, Pg. 10.

    Of the nations of the south only three can engage our attention; the Greeks, Macedonians, and Romans...We have named them in the order in which history presents them to us as distinguished nations.

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  • vicsinad
    replied
    From the San Francisco Call, July 21, 1890:
    The Christians, a herd of Greeks, Bulgarians and Macedonians, with the most villianous faces, morals and manners imaginable, have to be ruled with a tight hand in order to be kept from strangling one another.
    So much for the Macedonians being Greeks, and for the Macedonians and Bulgarians being loving brothers.

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  • vicsinad
    replied
    From "Voyages and Travels Through the Russian Empire" by John Cook in 1770, page 265:

    My place by the sea hospital was now filled up by a physician, a Macedonian, who had studied at Padua: He told me that in the year 1739, the last year of the Turkish War, his countrymen, the Macedonian Christians, had assembled a body of between thirty and forty thousand men, with a design to free themselves from Turkish slavery...

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  • vicsinad
    replied
    The German Chronicle Mentz wrote in 1482 ..."that the Saxons were some remains of the Macedonian Army; and that before they came into Germany, they were called Macedonians."

    From the book "The History of the Works of the Learned: Volume 1", 1699, Pg. 93.

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  • vicsinad
    replied
    From a book written in 1607, these are letters between a Turkish official and the Macedonians. You can see the Macedonians talking about their country, their people, and their laws. It's also very telling that the Turk mentions that Macedonians have been conquered so often. The book is called "The Turkes Secretoire, Containing his Sundrie Letters". I'm not sure from when the letters in the book are dated. (It should also be noted that this book has separate letters to Greeks, Slavs and neighboring groups, highlighting the FACT that back then (sometime between late 1300s and 1607) Macedonians considered themselves to be a separate people).

    In my opinion, the Macedonians response should be etched in every Macedonian Textbook, as it has such relevance for centuries to our people.

    The Turke to the Macedonians
    Your Ambassadors brought me that you gave them in charge: whereby you provoke me rather unto pitie than unto hate; for it seemed to become you farre better, who have been conquered so oft, and brought so oft to be suters on your knees, to receive with thanks, and not to offer with such impudencie the conditions of peace; is it not shame that men in misery by war should stand on proud termes with their conquerors?


    The Macedonians to the Turke
    What just and equal peace can there be betwixt thee and the Macedonians: we desire and endeavor to defend our country, and our laws; thou not content with thine own, thirstest after other kingdoms by force of arms, and seekest to stretch out thine empire beyond thy bounds: we cannot but speak touching our common-wealth, as it becomes our constancie and generous mindes, that we hold nothing dearer, and sweeter among men, than libertie; yet this has always been the common vice and fault among tyrants; free states they hate to death, free cities stand too much in their sight.

    https://www.facebook.com/Leagueofmac...type=3&theater

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  • George S.
    replied
    ""One day you are macedonian the next day your not.Your neighbour has stolen your identity and has killed you off.
    How idiotic it is stealing everything macedonian
    And the propaganda created to cheat us of our glorious past.The greeks have no qualms doing it."What I'm saying is a bit sarcastic and so blunt its meant to be the truth as if we have to accept our faith as our neighbours want us to.My point is do we have to.
    Are we there to cop it sweet??WE are being bullied into things and we just capitulate or compromise I don't need to demonstrate that.Thats what I've been saying that and if you want to shout me a beer I thank you no hard feelings ill shout you back.
    The other thing I was saying was that the propaganda machine of our neighbours is well known of ridicule and paranoia.We are n being robbed of our rights to the point of denial of our rights and out of existence.We call ourselves Macedonians and they don't recognize that.They don't believe in the rights of self identification.
    Last edited by George S.; 11-25-2015, 09:16 AM.

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  • Karposh
    replied
    Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
    You have George all wrong, and you have wrongly interpreted his posts. True, sometimes his posts are hard to understand. But take it in context. I believe his most recent post is referring to how Macedonians' neighbors (Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs) deny the Macedonian identity and have discriminated against Macedonians. If anything, he was supporting everything you have been posting. He has good intentions and is a valuable member of this forum. I think you should apologize because the accusation of George being Greek is unfounded. Your initial assessment of George's posts as "harmless but enthusiastic exuberance" was the right one.
    Well don't I feel like a F-ing prick right now. Okay vicinad. Unfortunately, I can't take back what I said. Too late for that, I already pressed the submit button. For whatever it's worth, I apologise George. That probably means nothing right now but, if we ever meet up in person, I'll buy you a drink and, hopefully, we can have a laugh about all this. I admit I was impulsive and even a little bit cocky saying what I said. Paranoia can sometimes get the better of all of us at times. Se izvinum od se srce chichko George (I presume you are elderly or have I already made one too many presumptions for one day).

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  • vicsinad
    replied
    Originally posted by Karposh View Post
    No offence George but WTF!!! What exactly are you trying to say? Most of what you have said seems to be directed at Macedonians. Whether intentional or not, the last bit even screams sarcasm to me which also seems to be aimed at Macedonians.

    George, I’m going to suggest a few things which, I’m afraid you’re not going to like or enjoy one bit. I don’t know you or have ever met you. I’m just familiar with your profile. And your profile tells me that you’ve been posting here since August 2009 with over 10,000 posts to your name. When I first joined this forum, I noticed that you popped up everywhere. You seemed to make a habit of just jumping in everywhere. Every thread, topic, reply or thought expressed on this forum, you just had to have the last word on the lot. Worse still, your posts seem to be unconsidered and child-like outbursts rather than making any sort of coherent point.

    At first, I put it down to harmless but enthusiastic exuberance on your part. I figured you were just another eccentric Macedonian with a lot of time on your hands. But your heart was in the right place, I reasoned. However, lately, I’ve been wondering whether you are who you claim to be. Sure, you have a Macedonian flag flying next to your name but some of the things that you post on here makes me question whether you are not the proverbial wolf in sheep’s clothing. I am suggesting to you that you are a Greek posing as a Macedonian on this forum. Just a casual look at some of the things you have posted leads me to believe this.

    I hope I’m wrong about you George. I’ll be the first to apologise to you if I am. I just couldn’t keep it bottled up any more.
    You have George all wrong, and you have wrongly interpreted his posts. True, sometimes his posts are hard to understand. But take it in context. I believe his most recent post is referring to how Macedonians' neighbors (Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs) deny the Macedonian identity and have discriminated against Macedonians. If anything, he was supporting everything you have been posting. He has good intentions and is a valuable member of this forum. I think you should apologize because the accusation of George being Greek is unfounded. Your initial assessment of George's posts as "harmless but enthusiastic exuberance" was the right one.

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  • Karposh
    replied
    Originally posted by George S. View Post
    One day you are macedonian the next day your not.Your neighbour has stolen your identity and has killed you off.
    How idiotic it is stealing everything macedonian
    And the propaganda created to cheat us of our glorious past.The greeks have no qualms doing it.
    No offence George but WTF!!! What exactly are you trying to say? Most of what you have said seems to be directed at Macedonians. Whether intentional or not, the last bit even screams sarcasm to me which also seems to be aimed at Macedonians.

    George, I’m going to suggest a few things which, I’m afraid you’re not going to like or enjoy one bit. I don’t know you or have ever met you. I’m just familiar with your profile. And your profile tells me that you’ve been posting here since August 2009 with over 10,000 posts to your name. When I first joined this forum, I noticed that you popped up everywhere. You seemed to make a habit of just jumping in everywhere. Every thread, topic, reply or thought expressed on this forum, you just had to have the last word on the lot. Worse still, your posts seem to be unconsidered and child-like outbursts rather than making any sort of coherent point.

    At first, I put it down to harmless but enthusiastic exuberance on your part. I figured you were just another eccentric Macedonian with a lot of time on your hands. But your heart was in the right place, I reasoned. However, lately, I’ve been wondering whether you are who you claim to be. Sure, you have a Macedonian flag flying next to your name but some of the things that you post on here makes me question whether you are not the proverbial wolf in sheep’s clothing. I am suggesting to you that you are a Greek posing as a Macedonian on this forum. Just a casual look at some of the things you have posted leads me to believe this.

    I hope I’m wrong about you George. I’ll be the first to apologise to you if I am. I just couldn’t keep it bottled up any more.

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  • George S.
    replied
    One day you are macedonian the next day your not.Your neighbour has stolen your identity and has killed you off.
    How idiotic it is stealing everything macedonian
    And the propaganda created to cheat us of our glorious past.The greeks have no qualms doing it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Karposh
    replied
    Originally posted by Dejan View Post
    Valuable find Karposh!
    Thanks Dejan. I thought twice before posting this information, thinking surely someone else has pointed the same out. Then I figured, stuff it, this is too valuable not to be repeated...over & over again, if need be. People have to realise, a nation's sense of identity isn't borne overnight as our idiotic neighbours like to tell everyone. It is inherited from generation to generation.

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  • Dejan
    replied
    Valuable find Karposh!

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  • Karposh
    replied
    The Macedonian Hussar (Cavalry) Regiment of 1756!

    The impaling and death of Macedonian rebel leader Karposh on the stone bridge in Skopje marked the end of this heroic struggle for freedom by Karposh and his brave rebels. The aftermath of the failed Karposh Rebellion of 1689 was devastating for the northern regions of Macedonia. What followed was slaughter and mass-migration of the Macedonian population. A sad legacy of the failed rebellion, the repercussions of which are felt to this very day, is the opportunistic mass migration by Albanian newcomers into these regions.

    I once read a gruesome story about how the unarmed civilian population, fearing Turkish reprisals, desperately made a run for it, heading north towards Vojvodina, following the example of the Great Serb Migration into the Hapsburg Monarchy. The bloodthirsty Tartars, who were assisting the Turks at the time, apparently caught up to the stragglers and set upon them without mercy. There was wholesale slaughter of a section of the Macedonian civilian population that didn’t make it north to Vojvodina with the rest of the Macedonians. Apparently, to this very day, there are macabre reminders of this slaughter, known locally as “kasapski livadi” i.e. “slaughter fields.”

    After having arrived in Vojvodina, the surviving rebels and civilians were disappointed to realise that the ruling Austrians of Vojvodina were attempting to Germanise them so they decided to pack up and leave once more. This time they headed further north into Russia, what is now, Ukraine. Once there, they organised themselves into military units and entered the ranks of the Russian Imperial Army.

    From 14th October 1741, the Russian Army had employed the services of four cavalry (Hussar) regiments that were made up of foreign nationals who had remained in Russia. These were Serbian, Moldavian, Hungarian and Georgian Hussar regiments. Under the orders of Russian Empress, Elisaveta Petrovna, three more Hussar regiments were formed in 1756:

    •Zeltiy (Yellow)
    Makedonskiy (Macedonian)
    •Bolgarskiy (Bulgarian)

    These three extra regiments were to compliment the existing four regiments. The following quote from Wikipedia’s Hussar page says it all.

    “These regiments were enlisted, not conscripted as the rest of the Russian army, and were on a level between regular and irregular cavalry. Hussars were recruited only from the nation indicated by the regiment’s name, i.e. these regiments were national units in the Russian service and all troops (including officers) were national and commands were given in the respective languages. Each regiment was supposed to have a fixed organization of 10 companies, each of about 100 men, but these regiments were recruited from different sources, so they were less than the indicated strength.

    Documents of the national historical archives of Ukraine contain some very interesting and invaluable information about the bravery of the Macedonian Hussar Regiment. The soldiers of this regiment distinguished themselves time and again with their bravery and warrior spirit and were constantly used in the front lines, along side the equally brave Cossacks, to lead the charge into battle. The regiment was praised and commended by both Elisaveta Petrovna and Ekaterina II. Some officers from the Macedonian Regiment were even promoted to Generals in the Russian Army.

    The stats on the Macedonian Regiment were 4000 men at arms who had their own specific seal, uniform, flag and coat of arms of a lion. The lion symbol of the coat of arms was subsequently replaced in 1776 by two crossing spears. The separate units making up the regiment also had their own unique flags.

    Macedonian Wikipedia highlights the fact that the members of the Macedonian Regiment had a strong sense of Macedonian national identity and called themselves Macedonians. On arrival to Russia, they declared to officials that they are part of the Macedonian nation which is evident in the many documents of the period which are currently kept in the national historical archives of Ukraine in Kiev. See picture below of a document from this archive.



    In this document you can clearly see that the members of the Macedonian regiment have been identified as having a Macedonian nationality. And this is dated 1756!!! 122 years before the birth of the modern Bulgarian state of 1878.

    Naturally, Bulgarians are refuting this information. Not the existence of the documents. They’re irrefutable, but the actual sense of identity of the people who declared themselves as Macedonians. Again, they meant it in a regional sense, according to Bulgarians. They were really Bulgarians and not Macedonians. This argument falls to pieces for the Bulgarians for the simple fact that the Russian Empress, Elisaveta Petrovna, also oversaw the formation of a separate Bulgarian Regiment. If the Macedonians felt they were really Bulgarians, they would have joined the ranks of the Bulgarian Regiment and not the Macedonian Regiment.

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  • George S.
    replied
    Dragan havent you heard that tito had a time machine that he used to invent the macedonian identity.You should know that in 1878 somewhere around that time russians claiming to be macedonians who sought freedom for macedonia ,These people were immigrants from macedonia who tried to get freedom for macedonians did not achieve it regardless of the support.So tito had a marvelous time machine and he invented the macedonian people.

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