Macedonia and the European Union

[George S.]

To Bill the albaniansThey don't have to make love over the border they can do it in their own backyard thankyou.(joking)
Think about it people can come in from kosovo vote in the macedonian elections & hop over the border.Why have border crossings at all & get rid of the check points & boom gates.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Excellent news.
I can't wait to see what Greece has planned for the Macedonians crossing the border. They will be reminded in no uncertain terms that their boss (Chichko EU) is watching.

Yes, that will be interesting. One wonders wether or not this will increase the amount of Macedonians travelling south of the border? I hope the thousands of begalci descendants in the Macedonian republic sieze this opportunity to visit the homes and areas that their families fled or were brutally evicted from by fascist Greek animals.

[Bill77]

To Bill the albaniansThey don't have to make love over the border they can do it in their own backyard thankyou.(joking)
Think about it people can come in from kosovo vote in the macedonian elections & hop over the border.Why have border crossings at all & get rid of the check points & boom gates.

I am not sure what you guys are smoking or on about. I was not thinking about the kosovars in my post when i refered to Albanians. I was talking about our shiptari on our land. I was hopeing they take off (preferably distant countries) find better opertunities and migrate there for good (evan if its ileagaly) just like they migrated to our teritory. It was a tongue in cheak comment or wishful thinking. But i can't see it happening.

Kosovars coming over is a diferant issue. Getting rid of them is one thing. Stoping new ones coming in is another.

[Jankovska]

Macedonians can travel visa free to Greece but will be issued a seperate document at the border (probably one saying you are not Macedonian). Anyhow I hope this is a slap in the face for Greece and all the summer tourists go to SPain now and leave Greece empty. wooho

[Bratot]

Macedonia's great accomplishment is to have survived

http://www.globalpolitician.com/26101-macedonia-greece-european-union-gruevski

Interview granted by Sam Vaknin to the Portuguese newsmagazine Politika, November 8, 2009

1.
The EU would rather postpone by as much as it can the accession of the "Ottoman Bloc" (Serbia, Macedonia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Albania, and Kosovo which were all under strict Turkish rule for centuries). Macedonia would never accede to the EU before Serbia and Albania do and definitely not in its current state: poverty, corruption, low level of education, problems with human and minority rights, incompetent public administration, dysfunctional institutions, bad relations with all its neighbors, and a budding authoritarian faux-nationalistic regime.


2.
Q. Do you believe the recognition of Kosovo independence, despite Serbia’s opposition, is an important contribution for the good relationship between Slav Macedonians and Albanian Macedonians?

The preferred term is "ethnic Macedonians", I believe.

3.
Q. How do you comment on the Greek persistent opposition to Macedonia’s name? Should European Union have a stronger influence over Greece, since most UN countries recognized the name Republic of Macedonia?

The Greeks not only oppose Macedonia's constitutional name, but they dispute the Macedonians' self-imputed identity as the direct descendants of the ancient Macedonians (with or without Slav blood). They also do not recognize the Macedonians within Greek borders as a separate minority, having persecuted them in the 20th century and having confiscated swathes of their property now worth billions of euros. Thus, the "name issue" is a multi-layered, complex bilateral dispute. The EU cannot sacrifice well-entrenched principles of governance just to resolve a single conflict with a minor wannabe Associate Member. Greece is far more important to the EU (and, more generally, to the West). It also has vested historical and institutional rights in the EU. Finally, Greece's flirt with Russia is a trump card. The West will easily sacrifice Macedonia to prevent a Greek-Russian axis on its southern flank. Macedonians must now choose between letting go of their identity, or ditching their future in the EU.

4.
Q. Macedonia has lodged a lawsuit against Greece at the International Court of Justice in the Hague for blocking its NATO entry. Do you think the court decision will be in favor of Macedonia?

Yes, I think that the Court will rule in Macedonia's favor and Greece will ignore the ruling. Still, such a judgment would be an important moral victory for Macedonia

5.
Q. How do you comment on the Greek persistent opposition to Macedonia’s name? Should European Union have a stronger influence over Greece, since most UN countries recognized the name Republic of Macedonia?

The Greeks not only oppose Macedonia's constitutional name, but they dispute the Macedonians' self-imputed identity as the direct descendants of the ancient Macedonians (with or without Slav blood). They also do not recognize the Macedonians within Greek borders as a separate minority, having persecuted them in the 20th century and having confiscated swathes of their property now worth billions of euros. Thus, the "name issue" is a multi-layered, complex bilateral dispute. The EU cannot sacrifice well-entrenched principles of governance just to resolve a single conflict with a minor wannabe Associate Member. Greece is far more important to the EU (and, more generally, to the West). It also has vested historical and institutional rights in the EU. Finally, Greece's flirt with Russia is a trump card. The West will easily sacrifice Macedonia to prevent a Greek-Russian axis on its southern flank. Macedonians must now choose between letting go of their identity, or ditching their future in the EU.

[Risto the Great]

Greece cannot afford to two-time the EU by flirting with Russia.
Shmuel, the interview you granted last month is now out of date with Greece's admission of impending economic catastrophe.

[George S.]

European Union Delays Macedonian’s Membership Talks Until March 2010

European Union Delays Macedonian’s Membership Talks Until March 2010

December 9, 2009



Macedonian President Blasts the European Union

The Macedonian president launched a scathing attack this evening against the European Union condemning it for double standards.

- We will not cave under any pressure to change our name or identity just to be a part of the European Union. We've lived this (hi)story many times before, not again. Whatever the outcome of the talks in Brussels, Macedonia will stay right here. We have a European perspective that will be achieved together, with the support of all ethnic and religious communities, all parties and all citizens of Macedonia - Ivanov emphasized.

In the presence of foreign ambassadors in the country, he said that Europe unfortunately still has leaders who allow to be carried away by someone's petty interests and hidden agenda.

- Any violations of EU's principles today, tomorrow, will bring new violations, new disorders and dozens of new blockades. Who knows what will be asked of us tomorrow!?



Macedonia gets a hesitant response, we receive requests and rules which apply only to us and change from day to day, we let obstructions and pressures from petty interests decide outcomes. We see the absence of vision at the EU. We hear of integration announcements first for 2012, then 2014, 2015. How we can achieve those terms? With obstacles and obstructions - asked Ivanov.

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/10639/1/

Posted by Megaman at http://www.maknews.com/forum/general...on-t17824.html







Macedonia a “victim of Europe’s 20th century conspiracies”



Former German Ambassador to Macedonia, Hans Lottar Stepan in an interview with Mia, Mina, A1, says Macedonia should not under any circumstances yield to Greece. He also calls Macedonia a “victim of Europe’s 20th century conspiracies”.

- Your Excellency, for your book “The Macedonian knot”, you have received numerous awards. Most recently the “Krste Petkov Misirkov” award, but also an award from the Macedonian Academy of Sciences. How much do these awards mean to you, as satisfaction for your 15 years of research on Macedonia.

I became a spiritual warrior for Macedonia. I have received awards from the County of Kisela Voda, from MANU, and the latest from the Ramkovski Foundation. It’s an honor for me to receive any, and all of them, I am very happy.

- Arguments you have put forward in your book, “The Macedonian knot” have helped many people here and abroad to learn about Macedonia, its history.

I am convinced that if any politician wishes to understand today’s political conflict between Macedonia and Greece, must look deep into the history. This history proved what I believed, for example, Greece prior to 1913 had never had Aegean Macedonia in its possession. Not in Ancient, not in Roman, not during Ottoman, not at any point of time did Greece have anything to do with Macedonia.


Only after an outrageous breach of international law in 1912-1913 during the Balkan Wars, together with Bulgaria and Serbia & Montenegro. They all occupied and took Macedonia, Thrace, and Epirus.


The main basis here is, Greece has illegally stolen Macedonian territory, which is against international law.


This historical connection is independent from the right of Macedonia to self determination. Everyone on earth has the right to self determination, so does Macedonia, and no one can change this.

-Your public speaking on Macedonia, as well as your positions in your book are somewhat different from Official German Politics.

When I returned home, after I had spent three years as a German Ambassador to Macedonia, I had few speeches in Germany, regarding Macedonia, the Balkans, Southern Europe, Yugoslavia, etc. I began to understand I am missing information on the origins, on the identities of the Balkan peoples. I spent several months in Bonn, looking at the vast Archives of the German Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Then spent several months in Berlin.


It is then and there that I realized what Macedonia’s neighboring countries are asking from you is completely unjustified and quite simply ridiculous.

- You had sent letters to members of the European Union, NATO, to Scheffer and Barroso. Can we expect that a German diplomat not receive a response from EU and NATO?

The EU and NATO are aware that Greece is very ’skillful’. The EU and NATO are completely aware that Greece is lying to them and to Macedonia and are even more aware that they should put a stop to it.


All this is coming from a country that calls itself a “cradle of democracy”. Greece must have responsibility for truth and justice.


The European Commission also saw through Greece’s lies. If they continue to show their fake solidarity to Greece, then we are talking about bigger interests behind the curtains. I believe the background is the Balkan Wars and the relations between the Balkan League and the Entente.

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/3315/45/

Posted by Big Bad Sven at http://www.maknews.com/forum/general...es-t17834.html





I've been aware for a long time that the EU is dysfunctional, the racist behaviour of the EU is merely an extension of Brussels' inability to behave as a modern political organization. The European Union is not a democracy, it functions according to the lowest common denominator, and it progresses very slowly if at all, in fact in many cases over the last several years one could argue that the European Union is actually regressing.

Think of it this way: The European Union is like a court that judges pedophile cases - but allows pedophiles to sit on the court and to veto any judgments against pedophiles. Just substitute the word racists for pedophiles and you'll get the idea.

It's not that the EU has no principles; it has thousands of pages of "principles". The problem is the EU cannot implement its principles, it does not practice the principles it espouses. I'm sure there are good people in the EU, but the EU cannot function properly, it's broken. The EU's racist machinations are also polluting the OSCE, the Council of Europe as well as NATO.

The decision to delay Macedonia's membership is no surprise at all.

What people need to realize is that the European Union's behaviour contradicts the requirements and expectations of the United Nations. Consider the statements coming out of the United Nations recently, and the statements coming out of the European Union. They clash, and the United Nations is much more principled than the European Union can ever dream of being.



Posted by Maknews at http://www.maknews.com/forum/general...ip-t17823.html





How can the EU justify its denial of Macedonia on the basis of a purely bilateral dispute when among their ranks they accepted and collaborate with a divided country in the form of Cyprus? This is all the more disturbing when one considers the terms under which Cyprus acceded - namely that the whole island is in the EU with EU law only applying to the South pending resolution of the dispute.



Posted by Dzog



To answer your question...forever they can veto you unless the EU changes again the veto system or Greece leaves the EU.

Sad but true! Greece is not in any hurry they will have you waiting hypocritically until you change the name. They have nothing to loose. They don’t care. Papandreou is no different. Maybe he is even worse.



We have been through this issue before.

Cyprus entered because Greece declared officially to the whole of the EU that if Cyprus was not admitted then no other country would ever be admitted again.

Basically the EU could not risk a potential veto for 9 countries or 11 including Bulgaria and Romania.

Greece was dead serious in 2004.It was not going to allow entry to anyone.

The Cyprus issue has been Greece's number one foreign policy issue.



Posted by SouthernNeighbour at http://www.maknews.com/forum/general...t17824-20.html







Wednesday, 09 December 2009

Greece and Cyprus (half of it) were strictly, albeit followed with the usual hysterics against Macedonia receiving a date for EU accession talks.

On the other hand Sweden, the United Kingdom, Poland, Austria, Slovenia, Slovakia, Czech Republic and Italy were the countries that voiced the strongest support for Macedonia. According to EU insiders, Sweden was the 'loudest' supporter of Macedonia.

Athens media (Ethnos, To Vima) misinformed their readers that France supposedly backed Greece. MINA received information that France, Germany and Spain never got involved in the discussions and stayed on the sidelines offering no support to either side.

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/10642/1/

Posted by Prolet on http://www.maknews.com/forum/general...st-t17828.html





How will this absurd and malicious request by Greece against Macedonia end? The problem has gone on long enough and it turns out that the Greeks have had free play space, which is to do what they want without consequences. The consequences might come later, but this does not help us for the moment. Macedonia and Macedonians must show that they do not want to join the EU under these circumstances. What is an EU membership worth if we first forcibly must change our name before we can become a full member?

Today we have a Greek veto on Macedonia’s NATO membership and a veto-like scenario where more time is created for a possible settlement and entry into the EU. But if the problem could not be solved in 20 years, how is it possible to solve it until March 2010? Macedonia has repeatedly said that it will not change the name. EU leaders do not know how they should act. Many EU members are aware of the problem but do not want to get directly involved for different reasons. We have many friends around us, but this is a power struggle for Greece against us. The Greeks are in better position and can use the veto against us at any time and in any case.

It is now time to show great EU skepticism in The Republic of Macedonia from politicians, associations, and Macedonian population. It is also time to end the name negotiations. No more talks with anyone. We have nothing more to expect from UN, EU, NATO, and Greece. Their positions will not change over the next 5-10 years. But it is expected that Macedonia compromise and change the name. With hindsight, we can never win this battle. There remains only one thing to do and that is to end all negotiations on the name and show great dissatisfaction with the EU, to suspend talks on EU entry in the next five years and to show some pride.



Posted by Dimitar the Macedon

[Soldier of Macedon]

George, are you an ambassador for other forums here or something? What's with the complete cut n' paste job? Do you do the same at other forums and post entire discussions from the MTO there? If people want to read those discussions they can attend the places where they are taking place, here at the MTO, we try and provoke our own discussions and original thought. And in case you hadn't noticed, this topic has already been opened on other threads here, at the MTO.

[Risto the Great]

Yes George, it is a little silly posting (other) forum comments in this forum. The underlying news article is all that we are interested in. And please ensure you look to see if it has already been posted ... as this already was.

[Soldier of Macedon]

.........a budding authoritarian faux-nationalistic regime.

Get over yourself you moron, what's the matter, didn't get the expected amount for your services?

The preferred term is "ethnic Macedonians", I believe.

Is that what you believe Shmuel, or is that what you know, given that the Macedonian government paid you as an economic advisor? The term is 'Macedonian', you can save the ethnic prefix for Macedonians who are located in other states as minorities.

Macedonians must now choose between letting go of their identity, or ditching their future in the EU.

Yep, thanks for telling everybody what they already know. You're worth your weight in garbage.

[Risto the Great]

Angered Turkey demands visa-free travel to EU's Schengen area

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5040858,00.html

Turkey says it wants the European Union to drop visa restrictions on its citizens seeking to travel to the bloc after restrictions for three other non-EU countries were lifted Saturday.


Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu says the country deserves to have visa restrictions against it dropped by the EU after Serbian, Montenegrin and Macedonian citizens were granted visa-free travel rights to the Schengen area.

Davutoglu said the visa waiver should be granted despite little progress being made with Brussels on Ankara's EU membership aspirations.

"It's unacceptable that certain Balkan countries that are in the initial stages of the membership process and have not begun negotiations have been given the Schengen privilege, while Turkey, considering the level that Turkish-EU relations have reached, has not," Davutoglu said at a news conference.

"We will follow this closely from now on," he said, according to the state-run Anatolian news agency.

Citizens of the 25 signatory countries to the Schengen Agreement are allowed to cross into other Schengen countries without a visa. The exceptions are Bulgaria, Cyprus, Romania, Liechtenstein, Ireland and the UK, which have not - or only partly - implemented the agreement yet.

Davutoglu had previously criticized the EU plans to lift visa restrictions for Serbia, Montenegro and Macedonia, while keeping them for Muslim majority Bosnia-Herzegovina and Albania.

"The way it's being done by the EU is giving the wrong signals," a Turkish Foreign Ministry official said.

Predominantly Muslim Turkey, a country of 71 million, has hit several roadblocks in its EU accession bid. The EU has frozen several aspects of talks Ankara over its failure to open its port and airports with EU member Cyprus, with which Turkey has a strained history and continued military presence in the independent north of the divided island.

This is significant. Turkey is absolutely correct. They are meant to be much further down the path to EU membership. Let's see how the EU keeps them happy about this.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Turkey indeed has a point, but they should know what kind of manipulative fools they are dealing with, and how much these fools are influenced by their Greek neighbours.

What I would like to know is, was it Turkey that first requested entry into the EU or was it the EU that thought of pulling Turkey into the 'realm'? Many Turks I have spoken to have made it clear that they do not need, nor do they want the EU, and given that Turkey's European territories are probably less than 1/20th of its total land mass as opposed to the vast Asian territories, is it even worth pursuing something like this where elements in both sides are demonstrating reluctance? If Turkey enters the EU, a significant portion of this 'European' union will be in Asia, will it then change its name? Is Israel next on the list? I mean the Israeli's already partake in European sporting events, don't they? Maybe it should be the Eurasian Union.

[Bill77]

Turkey indeed has a point, but they should know what kind of manipulative fools they are dealing with, and how much these fools are influenced by their Greek neighbours.

What I would like to know is, was it Turkey that first requested entry into the EU or was it the EU that thought of pulling Turkey into the 'realm'? Many Turks I have spoken to have made it clear that they do not need, nor do they want the EU, and given that Turkey's European territories are probably less than 1/20th of its total land mass as opposed to the vast Asian territories, is it even worth pursuing something like this where elements in both sides are demonstrating reluctance? If Turkey enters the EU, a significant portion of this 'European' union will be in Asia, will it then change its name? Is Israel next on the list? I mean the Israeli's already partake in European sporting events, don't they? Maybe it should be the Eurasian Union.

Turkey will never enter EU. Becuase the French are totaly against it, (Bloody frogs). And Greece would expect the Turks to leave cyprus which will never happen. More of a chance Hell freezing over. Europe is a joke.

But to answer your Question, i am prety sure Turkey requested to enter but it was almost imediatley knocked on the head by France who did not want a Muslim nation in it. They were not those exact words, but interpreted that way.

Now all of a sudden, France's defence is they are against expansion of the EU.

[Soldier of Macedon]

France should have thought twice about supporting the bombing campaigns against Sebia while the latter was at war with Albanian Muslims from Kosovo, now they will have more than one Muslim group aspiring to get into the EU, and most of them are actually located geographically in Europe.

[Prolet]

SOM, If Turkey is not in Europe then What about Russia,Azerbaijan,Malta,Cyprus,Armenia,Georgia where do these countries belong?