Macedonia and NATO

[Voltron]

Asia Minor was not as bad as Macedonia. It was a hell of alot more stabler than any other part of the Balkans and the reason why it was more wealthier as well.

Homogenos does not mean genetic purity.

[Phoenix]

Asia Minor was not as bad as Macedonia. It was a hell of alot more stabler than any other part of the Balkans and the reason why it was more wealthier as well.

Homogenos does not mean genetic purity.

You're missing the point or trying to avoid it...

Asia Minor has throughout history been an ethnically diverse region...todays 'greeks' were something very different 100 years ago, don't even bother going further back in time but the modern 'greeks' and Asia Minor refugees such as yourself are quick to deny the Macedonian people their identity although your history is far less credible as 'greeks', let alone 'Macedonians'

[Voltron]

You're missing the point or trying to avoid it...

Asia Minor has throughout history been an ethnically diverse region...todays 'greeks' were something very different 100 years ago, don't even bother going further back in time but the modern 'greeks' and Asia Minor refugees such as yourself are quick to deny the Macedonian people their identity although your history is far less credible as 'greeks', let alone 'Macedonians'

Very different a hundred years ago ? Sounds like your scrapping the bottom of the barrel on this one.

[Dejan]

No, not really. It depends in which context we are talking about. An Arvanite that came to Greece 700 years ago can easily be a Greek today. Same thing with Slavs that settled here and were absorbed by Greeks from 6th AD. That doesnt mean we give blank checks to anybody that adopts the Orthodox faith.

That is not what your modern history shows. Who are you trying to fool here? Show me evidence of slav settlements instead of just stating it as fact. What about christian turkish refugees shipped in after Macedonia's partition? You know the ones that didn't know your language? Weren't they made honorary greeks?

[Stojacanec]

You know what cracks me up Phoenix. Your region of the world happened to be front lines of countless battles and movements that would leave your head spinning. Somehow though you actually believe you were untouched while pointing the finger south of the border. The boy in the bubble syndrome.

You know what cracks me up Voltron? less than 100 years ago 1.4 mil orthodox turks were transplanted to modern greece making the new total pop'n of new greece 6.2 mil. Do your maths that's about 25% new refugees in your new greek state within the last 100 years.

Now think about that for a moment 1/4 of the population is new only 90 years ago.

And you modern newcomers dare give us a history lesson on the Balkan region.

I can track my ancestors through grave stones and archives without trying at least 300 years from Macedonia so it perplexes me how the general folk of new greece can give me a history lesson.

[Risto the Great]

Oh of course these people can be Greek!
And Macedonians & Greeks can become Australians or Americans in one generation too.
But it does not mean that modern Greeks can delude themselves into a position of superiority when it comes to the treatment of Macedonians in Greece. Ultimately, it is a matter of human rights ... and they barely exist in Greece.

[Stojacanec]

Absolutly Risto, modern greeks choose to speak only of antiquity as a safe haven because modern day events scare the hell out of them. It would show how non greek they really are and the need to offer human rights to the real macedonians of greek occupied macedona.

[Dejan]

It is clear to see that greek ethnicity is not constant or consistent

[Makedonska_Kafana]

The, United States of America can no longer be considered a "super power" - useless

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMZfXN1UOpw

[George S.]

Well we all know that ,so china is really the superpower?? it sure is.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

Well we all know that ,so china is really the superpower?? it sure is.

UMD - "VERY STRONG GREEK LOBBY"

Click here to donate

[George S.]

U.S. Congressman Smith says Macedonia should join NATO, regardless of name row

U.S. Congressman Smith says Macedonia should join NATO, regardless of name row



Skopje, 25 February 2012 (MIA) - United States Congressman Chris Smith believes that Macedonia should receive an invitation and join NATO at the coming summit in Chicago, due to its exceptional contribution in Alliance missions, whereas the accession is not related to the name row.



"Macedonia is Macedonia and will remain Macedonia. Macedonia is an outstanding ally in Afghanistan and Iraq. According to our commanders, Macedonian troops perform really well and the country would be a welcomed addition to NATO's security apparatus. We hope an invitation will be extended to Macedonia in Chicago and the country will join NATO", Smith told journalists in Skopje on Saturday.



He added the issue was also on the agenda of a recent Helsinki Committee hearing, which he attended as OSCE representative.



"The goal of the meeting was to talk about countries that ought to be in NATO, such as Macedonia", said Smith.



NGO "Revita" presented today Congressman Smith with an award for protection of the right to life of unborn babies, for his long-standing contribution in the fight against abortion. Smith has been a House representative for 32 years from the New Jersey area.

[Zarni]

Piss off NATO Macedonia dont need you and you dont deserve us either

[FriendofMacedonia]

Piss off NATO Macedonia dont need you and you dont deserve us either

Unfortunately, there's no being neutral anymore for small countries like Macedonia. You gotta pick a side.

Personally, the West/EU/America is a sinking ship and we are going to witness a power shift from West to East soon. Aligning yourselves with Russia/China would be the wiser movie imho. Not to mention as a Serb, Russia has a far better track record of defending her allies (1878, WWI when they declared war on Austria to help defend us etc.) than the West which does nothing but sell out its own allies when they no longer serve their purpose (Yugoslavia was a strong ally of the West and when the Soviets disappeared it became useless and they went from fiscally supporting it to helping destroy it).

[Krivan]

Unfortunately, there's no being neutral anymore for small countries like Macedonia. You gotta pick a side.

Personally, the West/EU/America is a sinking ship and we are going to witness a power shift from West to East soon. Aligning yourselves with Russia/China would be the wiser movie imho. Not to mention as a Serb, Russia has a far better track record of defending her allies (1878, WWI when they declared war on Austria to help defend us etc.) than the West which does nothing but sell out its own allies when they no longer serve their purpose (Yugoslavia was a strong ally of the West and when the Soviets disappeared it became useless and they went from fiscally supporting it to helping destroy it).

You can be a small country and be neutral at the same time. It's just hard to be small and neutral in the middle of the Balkans. Even more so with modern irredentism claimed by our neighbors who place claims on certain parts of history with claims fabricated during their national reinventing of the 19th century.

The peasants east of Petrich laid claim on everything that had the name Bulgarian on it when reality was very much different. During the Ottoman era and the Millet system meant Bulgarian had a vastly different description, not one based on modern definitions. The Ottoman Empire was a whole different world compared to Western Europe.

Bulgarian in the Ottoman Empire meant a Slavic-speaking peasant or a poor farmer with little material wealth. Greek, on the other hand, described a middle class Ottoman citizen or a citizen belonging to the clergy and the educated class. The so-called Serbs even had newspapers written in "Greek" (which was mostly a mix of Turkish and medieval Greek before the purification efforts by Peloponnese Rums) and her educated class called themselves Greek by virtue of belonging to the middle class.

This changed during the age of nationalism when the Balkans was influenced by Western concepts of nationalism. Since the Balkans didn't have much history, especially of her Christian peasants, so they drew their identity from the Church. The peasants of the Bulgarian Church laid claim on Macedonia only because we were called Bulgarian by virtue of our lower-class status, not because we were actual ethnic Bulgarians but this didn't matter to the imagined imaginaries of the Orthodox peasants of "Bulgaria" (which ironically means country of peasants).

The reality is this, the Balkans is one big mish-mash of one "different peoples" who formed imaginary identities based on history before the Ottoman Empire. During the Ottoman Empire, they were just illiterate Christians without an ethnic identity. Don't fool yourself by believing Balkan propaganda that a strong Serbian, Bulgarian, Greek ethnonational consciousness existed during a time when borders were fluid, the peasant class was by large illiterate and depended on subsistence farming, etc... It's just plain ridiculous to apply modern definitions of ethnicity, nationality, etc to the past when nothing close resembled such in times bygone. The truth is this, the Balkan peoples are living one big denial, in beliving they are truly different from Turks, and the efforts to wipe their history in the 19th century might have worked but the truth doesn't simply disappear.

Also about the power shift comment, it's a ridiculous belief to assume the power will suddenly move from West to East. Russia still has ways to go before it catches up with the West in living standards. The same with China, and even right now it is facing internal political problems regarding succession. China is not at all an unified country. It is a country of many different languages, dialects and ethnicites only suppressed thanks to Communism i.e. Yugoslavism but this will eventually explode like it did in Yugoslavia.