Macedonia and NATO

[Zarni]

Krivan I like your avartar

I also like all hope and prey the Macedonians can grow some courage and say we dont need you and you dont deserve us

I wish

[Bill77]

This is why Greece will keep blocking us and we will never join Nato.

Here is a March 15, 2008 interview with Samaras, which is quite revealing about the usually hidden Greek position on Macedonia.

By denying entry into protection treaties like NATO under false pretenses, Greece byes time which seeks to de-stablize the country and depend on the Albanians to do the dirty work for them, in hopes that Macedonia will one day cease to exist.

At 1:44, Samaras says: “… I don’t know exactly when, but I believe that soon Skopia will no longer exist as a unified subject, that means that time is on our side, practically, it is on our side. Because I think they won’t be able to maintain unity… ”

Samaras-English - YouTube

[Daskalot]

Keep dangling the carrot in front of the donkey and it will gladly go along believing it can eat it one day.

Wake up!

[Daskalot]

This is why Greece will keep blocking us and we will never join Nato.

Here is a March 15, 2008 interview with Samaras, which is quite revealing about the usually hidden Greek position on Macedonia.

By denying entry into protection treaties like NATO under false pretenses, Greece byes time which seeks to de-stablize the country and depend on the Albanians to do the dirty work for them, in hopes that Macedonia will one day cease to exist.

At 1:44, Samaras says: “… I don’t know exactly when, but I believe that soon Skopia (sic) will no longer exist as a unified subject, that means that time is on our side, practically, it is on our side. Because I think they won’t be able to maintain unity… ”

Samaras-English - YouTube

The same can be said for Greece, do they consider their country to be stable today?
Time changes and time is on our side and always has been.

[Onur]

Bill, thats what they say for the Cyprus issue too but it fails in both case.

Sometimes i think like what would happen if we`d be as devilish as them and just like they support armed terrorists, seperatists against Turkey and Macedonia, maybe we should have do the same against Greece by funding the separatist Arvanite Albanian movements with millions of dollars, provide support for armed incursions in western Thrace and Chameria (southern Epirus) and encourage Macedonian and Vlach revival.

Only then, things would be fair because they already do these actions against us for 30+ years. Turkey could have done all these things without much difficulty and during their current miserable condition, it would be so easy to do but we never did that. But i believe Turkey should prove to Greece that we can destabilize their country in anytime we want. We gotta do that to stop Greek arrogance and their pathetic self-confidence on their "artificial" folk. We don't really need to work for destabilization of their country but at least, we have to show them that we are capable of doing that.

[Bill77]

The west needs to wake up to Greece's true intentions behind Greek position on Macedonia. Regardless if its wishful thinking by Greece, the fact that they wish it, alone should not be condoned and reprimanded.
Could you imagine the outrage by the west if the Macedonian government had such ill feelings and intentions towards its neighbours and broadcasted public? what more evidence do they need when such words comes from the horses mouth?

Also, Samaras mentions Macedonian irredentism. A nation of 2 million people being a threat. Yet he goes on about Albania growing to 6 million (triple the size) as no threat and all mighty Greece is powerful enough to counter it. As you can now see ladies and gentlemen, nothing that comes out of Greece is fact. These are evil deluded people.

[Voltron]

If we were anything like them we would of have occupied you already. Turkey is the type of country that meddles with every neighbor, they burnt our forests down during the 90's. They have occupied a soveriegn country Cyprus with numerous UN resolutions and now they have a Kosovo plan for Syria.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-mulls-kosovo-like-plan-for-syria.aspx?pageID=238&nID=14894&NewsCatID=338

The only reason why they arent doing anything right now to Greece is because they have singlehandely opened up so many fronts that they dont know which hole to close first. Their zero problem policy really did the exact opposite. We also have Isreali's that our on our side which really backfired on them. And if they try to fuck with Iran and Syria they will unleash the Kurds in those countries against Turkey. Greece fights with diplomacy, the Turks will actually send in a few hordes and settle on your land and then have you bargain for it. Go ahead try something with the Muslim Albanians in Macedonia see how your best friend will support you.

[George S.]

I agree with onur if we were different & literally took arms i'm sure greece would show some respect as we are constantly being bullied & we are scared of acting & we just capitulate to greece.Whil'st i don't favour armed conflict if we had some kind of freedom fighting then there might be some kind of recognition.
Does anyone seriously think the albanians will help us i doubt it they are seperatists through & through.I think to stand on one's two feet to take up arms & to fight it out to the end shows guts.Like in the old days.

[Komita]

Only morons and traitors wants to join NATO.

[George S.]

PM Gruevski's column for German FAZ: Macedonia deserves full-fledged NATO membership



Skopje, 8 February 2012 (MIA) - Probably many Germans had not heard about our country (Macedonia) until recently when our national team played a match to remember at the European Handball Championship. The handball heroes have shown that everybody is entitled to equality and justice, while the success depends solely on own efforts. Unfortunately, in another sphere we do not enjoy the same rights as others: Macedonia has met all NATO membership criteria, being recognized by the Alliance at Bucharest Summit in 2008. Nevertheless, Macedonia is not allowed to be part of it. Macedonia is de facto NATO member, whereas de jure it isn't, Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski says in his column for the German paper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.



NATO membership is the Government's strategic goal, Gruevski says. The (country)'s integration enjoys the support of over 85% of citizens. Macedonian peace forces in Iraq, Afghanistan have been sharing the threats to freedom with the allies, half of Macedonia's defense budget is allocated for (the country)'s contribution to Afghanistan. Our peacekeepers are meritorious for the security of Kandahar base, being decorated for their operations.

"Then why Macedonia is not a NATO member? We are a hostage of senseless and virtual dispute, never heard of across the globe. Our neighbour is hindering our membership although we have met all preconditions for membership. Only because Greece has a problem with the name of our country that harms nobody and for which we don't seek exclusivity. Greeks also have problem with our identity, the name of our nation and language. You may comprehend what absurd this is only if you imagine that somebody has a problem because you feel as and call yourselves Germans. Or try to imagine that Belgium doesn't allow Luxembourg to join NATO only because its province bears the name Luxembourg. If not insulting it would be ironic, maybe for the verses of Brecht or stories of Kafka, but this is the cruel reality," Gruevski says in his column.



Greece, he says, has prevented our NATO membership, being aware that it must not do that if we join in under the reference, granted by the UN. Greeks have accepted this reference under the Interim Accord, an international agreement we signed in 1995 under the UN auspices. In favor of reaching this accord, we have changed a flag, constitution, gave up the care for our minority - only to avoid Greece's opposition to our accession in international organizations.

The failure in Bucharest has not discouraged us, Gruevski says. We have resumed our efforts to become part of and contribute to NATO.



"In compliance with (Otto von) Bismarck's quote 'Politics is the art of the possible, the attainable - the art of the next best', we have sought our chances before the International Court of Justice (ICJ) in the Hague, while remaining committed to the dialogue with Greece aimed at finding a name solution. The ICJ lawsuit ended with a verdict that Greece had violated its obligations stemming from the 1995 Interim Accord after hindering Macedonia to be admitted to NATO at a summit in Bucharest in 2008 under the reference defined by the United Nations. ICJ ruled that Macedonia hasn't breach the agreement in any way, that it has always negotiated with good will, thus putting an end to all Greek diplomatic attempts to accuse us of lacking constructiveness in name talks," the PM says.



The ICJ judgment, he adds, is binding for both parties and suggests that there are no legal arguments for Greece to keep on objecting Macedonia's accession to NATO. In accordance with international law, Greece should refrain from hindering Macedonia's NATO membership. By setting a condition 'settle the name issue, then join NATO', international law is being breached and the ICJ judgment is not respected. Hence, NATO members relying on international law should extend a membership invitation to Macedonia at the upcoming summit in Chicago, this time without additional conditions set by Greece, which would breach international law.

"I hope that Germany and NATO members will take into consideration the ICJ conclusion that Macedonia has never violated the principle of neighbourly ties. Hence, there is no reason for the membership invitation to be postponed. The ICJ decision is clear. Moreover, Greece doesn't need to be afraid from Macedonia. The country should be very interested in being in the same alliance as partners. We want cordial relations with Greece and the future of the region to be built with joined forces. We also want talks focused on solving the dispute launched by Greece to be intensified," reads the column.



It is important to know that Macedonia's NATO membership will not be a burden to German taxpayers. Macedonia is implementing successful economic policies, for which we have been praised by the World Bank, ranking Macedonia 22nd - above 19 EU countries - on its Doing Business report. According to the World Bank, Macedonia is one of the most improved economies in the world for five consecutive years. IMF has said that Macedonia is a low-indebted country with an external debt of 26% from GDP, being the second lowest one in Europe. The national currency is firmly stable, the banking system is liquid and foreign exchange reserves are at the highest level in history.



"We all live under the same sky, but we don't all have the same horizon," (Konrad) Adenauer used to say. Hopefully, the German and Macedonian horizon is going to be the same in NATO," Gruevski concludes in his column for "Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung"

[Risto the Great]

The same can be said for Greece, do they consider their country to be stable today?
Time changes and time is on our side and always has been.

I would say Greece is infinitely more stable than Macedonia.

[Zarni]

Turkey never occupied Cyprus that is a myth they simply responded to a Natural right they have to the Island, whilst you and Sofia continue to occupy our Homeland

[Zarni]

Greece fights with diplomacy

No you have the darling relationship of the EU buracrats by your side not because you argue a powerful point or have influence but what the West see as useful for Athens existing

Modern Greece certainly does not deserve to exist you have destroyed many uniquie Cultures in the name of Hellenism that artifical call you call being a Greek

[Onur]

Zarni is right. The so-called Turkish invasion of Cyprus is just a myth but it`s supported by the EU&West in the name of undermining Turkish sovereignty in the island and more importantly in the eastern mediterranean sea (hint: natural gas&oil reserves, because international oil+gas cartels can easily take over oil+gas extraction rights from Greeks and leech it all as much as they want but it`s 10x times more difficult to do that vs Turkey. Greece is an indebted colony of Brussels while Turkey always have an option to say "fck off" to the oil+gas cartels)

The proof is so simple;

Cyprus was a British colony `till 1959 and when British finally agreed to let Cypriots form their own state, an international agreement signed between Turkish Cypriots, Greek Cypriots, Greece, Turkey and UK in 1959. Greece, Turkey and UK considered as the guarantor powers of the republic of Cyprus.

Republic of Cyprus has been created under this treaty. There was a parliament with the participation of both Turkish and Greek Cypriots. A Greek being the PM of the state and a Turk being the deputy prime minister. While considering the guarantor power status of both Greece and Turkey, read the article three of the founding treaty;

The Treaty of Guarantee was designed to preserve the territorial independence of the Republic of Cyprus. Cyprus and the guarantor powers (the United Kingdom, Turkey, and Greece) promised to prohibit the promotion of "either the union of the Republic of Cyprus with any other State, or the partition of the Island".

Article Three of the Treaty of Guarantee provides, "In so far as common or concerted action may prove impossible, each of the three guaranteeing Powers reserves the right to take action with the sole aim of re-establishing the state of affairs established by the present Treaty."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z%C3%BC...ndon_Agreement

What happened in 1974? A junta army with 20.000+ soldiers from Greece has invaded Cyprus with one and only goal, ENOSIS which means "union with Greek mainland". Therefor Greece violated the constitution of Cypriot state and the founding treaty for three times by invading the island, trying to unite it with Greece, demolishing the Cypriot state. And Turkey responded to that by acting against the Greek junta army by the right he takes from the article three. It`s simple as that but as long as Greeks takes support from the western world, they will continue to lie and accuse Turkey for invading the island.

Btw, republic of Cyprus still being governed under this treaty but Turkish Cypriots has been stripped from all their rights they earned with the founding treaty. They are also under harsh and unfair embargo since 1974. Thats why Turkey brands the current Greek only state as invalid and doesn't recognize them.

[Bill77]

Greece fights with diplomacy

Greece fights like girls (sorry to all girls for comparing you's to Greece).

Its clear you have absolutely no diplomacy skill with Macedonia.

When it comes to Turkey, you have no choice but to fight diplomatically since the night mares in Cyprus which has shown your capability. How long did the war last? the amount of time it took to abandon your artillery and run like fuck.

So don't give me bullshit about how brave or fair and diplomatic Greeks are.