Macedonians Storm Parliament

[Dejan]

Can someone explain - if the Macedonian government doesn't round up the coup plotters over this coup attempt, how is it not legal? They will be basically declaring that this was a legal move, no?

[Phoenix]

The Economist: Macedonian nationalists storm the parliament to hold on to power

A party backed by Russia fears that losing office might mean jail for some of its leaders

Link: http://www.economist.com/news/europe...-jail-some-its

...quick, run and hide...the Russian's are coming.

Fark me...all of a sudden Russia is the problem?

Russia is the least of Macedonia's problems...all of this shit stems directly from the USA and the EU, who are nothing more than a servile extension of US foreign policy.

Have a good fuckin look at what the US is doing all over the world, whether it's in the Middle East, Africa, the Korean Peninsula, Eastern Europe, the Baltic states, Northern Australia and THE BALKANS.

I don't see Russia with 160+ foreign bases spread across the world like some fuckin festering star spangled rash...

I'll give you a tip...Russia has zero involvement in what's taking place in Macedonia...What's happening in Macedonia is the process of the USA accumulating weak and servile states into the western (read USA) sphere of influence (or more to the point, domination)...

You only need to look as far as the recent fast-tracked inclusion of Montenegro into NATO as clear proof of this strategy.
Montenegro's NATO membership offers zero net gain for the alliance but what it does it removes Russian influence in Montenegro and ultimately denies the Russian's an Adriatic naval presence/base, it puts a further squeeze on the Serbs and pushes them deeper into a check-mate position on the strategic 'chess board'.

Serbia and Macedonia are the last of the Balkan pawns to fall to the US...Gruevski tried to work in an economic capacity with the Russian's but the USA would have none of that...in Zaev and his shiptar cohort they have the perfect servile puppets to reach their end game.

Zaev will immediately sell the name and the identity of the Macedonian people, this act of treachery will unblock the issues surrounding Macedonia's entry into NATO.
Macedonia will be fast-tracked into NATO,whilst Serbia, the last man standing, will have the mother-fucker of all pincer movements applied, until they heel to their American masters...job done...all of Europe under the influence of the USA but nobody will give a rats arse regarding the Macedonian's being wiped off the face of the earth.

*PREDICTION*
So you guys can argue all you like about Grujo and blow rays of sunshine up Zajko's arse, but those of you who support Zaev will have to live with the fact that he was the one who wiped the Macedonian's off the face of the earth...you too will be able to rejoice like the natives of the 'new world' when they were offered worthless, shiny beads, in exchange for large swathes of farming land by their colonial overlords...

[Pelagonija]

...quick, run and hide...the Russian's are coming.

Fark me...all of a sudden Russia is the problem?

Russia is the least of Macedonia's problems...all of this shit stems directly from the USA and the EU, who are nothing more than a servile extension of US foreign policy.

Have a good fuckin look at what the US is doing all over the world, whether it's in the Middle East, Africa, the Korean Peninsula, Eastern Europe, the Baltic states, Northern Australia and THE BALKANS.

I don't see Russia with 160+ foreign bases spread across the world like some fuckin festering star spangled rash...

I'll give you a tip...Russia has zero involvement in what's taking place in Macedonia...What's happening in Macedonia is the process of the USA accumulating weak and servile states into the western (read USA) sphere of influence (or more to the point, domination)...

You only need to look as far as the recent fast-tracked inclusion of Montenegro into NATO as clear proof of this strategy.
Montenegro's NATO membership offers zero net gain for the alliance but what it does it removes Russian influence in Montenegro and ultimately denies the Russian's an Adriatic naval presence/base, it puts a further squeeze on the Serbs and pushes them deeper into a check-mate position on the strategic 'chess board'.

Serbia and Macedonia are the last of the Balkan pawns to fall to the US...Gruevski tried to work in an economic capacity with the Russian's but the USA would have none of that...in Zaev and his shiptar cohort they have the perfect servile puppets to reach their end game.

Zaev will immediately sell the name and the identity of the Macedonian people, this act of treachery will unblock the issues surrounding Macedonia's entry into NATO.
Macedonia will be fast-tracked into NATO,whilst Serbia, the last man standing, will have the mother-fucker of all pincer movements applied, until they heel to their American masters...job done...all of Europe under the influence of the USA but nobody will give a rats arse regarding the Macedonian's being wiped off the face of the earth.

*PREDICTION*
So you guys can argue all you like about Grujo and blow rays of sunshine up Zajko's arse, but those of you who support Zaev will have to live with the fact that he was the one who wiped the Macedonian's off the face of the earth...you too will be able to rejoice like the natives of the 'new world' when they were offered worthless, shiny beads, in exchange for large swathes of farming land by their colonial overlords...

Couldn't have said it better.. Look at Ukraine, othordox christian vs orthodox christian. When the pro EU government wanted to ban a gay parade in Kiev, the EU warned them that they have to be more European.

Now the eu is doing the same thing us, divide and conquer... FFS we are probably 1 million and total..


Btw as for crna gora and that corrupt djukanovic, good to see NATO will sleep easier at night knowing crna gora with there 2000 soldiers are in NATO..

Btw it's 700 bases worldwide

[Phoenix]

Couldn't have said it better.. Look at Ukraine, othordox christian vs orthodox christian. When the pro EU government wanted to ban a gay parade in Kiev, the EU warned them that they have to be more European.

Now the eu is doing the same thing us, divide and conquer... FFS we are probably 1 million and total..


Btw as for crna gora and that corrupt djukanovic, good to see NATO will sleep easier at night knowing crna gora with there 2000 soldiers are in NATO..

Btw it's 700 bases worldwide

...lol

I did write 160+

I appreciate the fact-check

[Albo]

I can see a lot of fear here towards the future..
I seriously don't understand why people think that Macedonian identity is at any risk here.. nor it's territorial integrity by a platform that is within the constitution and was accepted BY VMRO FIRST !! (apart from the extension of the Special Prosecutors mandate)

Talat Xhaferri was first announced as defence Minister by VMRO.. did the army fall apart? Did the army favor only the Albanians..? Were all generals replaced by Albanians? Simply Nooo.. but the fear that was displayed at the time of his appointment was similar to the fear being played out here right now...
The same fear existed when the Tetovo University was legalized.. it was legalized and what?? Now Macedonians also study freely at the University.. no issues

Also let's not forget the Ohrid Agreement.. that required Massive change.. even constitutional amendments.. same fear of the unknown was shown..

Today it's a normal part of life..and is accepted by the majority in the country.. Macedonian identity has not been risked by any of these changes.. and it won't be by the platform ..

[Amphipolis]

Can someone explain - if the Macedonian government doesn't round up the coup plotters over this coup attempt, how is it not legal? They will be basically declaring that this was a legal move, no?

I asked this yesterday but no one provided straight answers. What was illegal or irregular about the Parliament procedures? Someone should state the legal-technical arguments because they are important. Most of the announcements of foreign powers consider the election of a speaker a normal/legal procedure and the acts of Ivanov as abnormal or undemocratic.

I understand the political intentions of both sides, but foreigners like me or… Merkel or Trump, would probably like to know more about the rules of the political system that were broken or not.

[Phoenix]

I can see a lot of fear here towards the future..
I seriously don't understand why people think that Macedonian identity is at any risk here.. nor it's territorial integrity by a platform that is within the constitution and was accepted BY VMRO FIRST !! (apart from the extension of the Special Prosecutors mandate)

Talat Xhaferri was first announced as defence Minister by VMRO.. did the army fall apart? Did the army favor only the Albanians..? Were all generals replaced by Albanians? Simply Nooo.. but the fear that was displayed at the time of his appointment was similar to the fear being played out here right now...
The same fear existed when the Tetovo University was legalized.. it was legalized and what?? Now Macedonians also study freely at the University.. no issues

Also let's not forget the Ohrid Agreement.. that required Massive change.. even constitutional amendments.. same fear of the unknown was shown..

Today it's a normal part of life..and is accepted by the majority in the country.. Macedonian identity has not been risked by any of these changes.. and it won't be by the platform ..

You fail to see or understand the wider implications of what is unfolding here.
It's easy for you as a shiptar to have no empathy for the Macedonian's or how this is dangerous to our identity...your identity isn't challenged in any way, shape or form...if anything, your identity is strengthened.

The end game here is to get Macedonia into NATO and circumvent the greek veto on the name issue, this can only be done by changing Macedonia's name and by default our identity as well.

Zaev is the only one to this point prepared to make this happen at any cost...

The fact that a shiptar terrorist was a defence minister and now an illegitimate parliament speaker is merely a sideshow in this circus...what Zaev proposes to do with our identity to appease his Euro-Atlantic masters is the real and immediate danger.

[Phoenix]

I asked this yesterday but no one provided straight answers. What was illegal or irregular about the Parliament procedures? Someone should state the legal-technical arguments because they are important. Most of the announcements of foreign powers consider the election of a speaker a normal/legal procedure and the acts of Ivanov as abnormal or undemocratic.

I understand the political intentions of both sides, but foreigners like me or… Merkel or Trump, would probably like to know more about the rules of the political system that were broken or not.

...such esteemed company you keep.

[Albo]

You fail to see or understand the wider implications of what is unfolding here.
It's easy for you as a shiptar to have no empathy for the Macedonian's or how this is dangerous to our identity...your identity isn't challenged in any way, shape or form...if anything, your identity is strengthened.

The end game here is to get Macedonia into NATO and circumvent the greek veto on the name issue, this can only be done by changing Macedonia's name and by default our identity as well.

Zaev is the only one to this point prepared to make this happen at any cost...

The fact that a shiptar terrorist was a defence minister and now an illegitimate parliament speaker is merely a sideshow in this circus...what Zaev proposes to do with our identity to appease his Euro-Atlantic masters is the real and immediate danger.

If there was to be a name change it wouldn't occur without a referendum.. hypothetically should that occur.. ( not saying I'm pro a name change) how is Macedonian identity effected? Will you or people you know stop calling themselves ethnic Macedonians ?
I really find it difficult to understand just how ethnic identity..something that is personal can be effected or altered by the name of the country you live in!

[DraganOfStip]

Would love to hear from the Zaev supporters on this forum...what do you think Dragan?

Is there another Dragan on this forum that I'm not aware of?
Because for a second there I swear I thought you placed me in the basket of Zaev supporters...
?

[Phoenix]

Is there another Dragan on this forum that I'm not aware of?
Because for a second there I swear I thought you placed me in the basket of Zaev supporters...
?

I had a sense that you were more Zajko than Grujo...that's your business, no offence intended, my apologies if I did offend you.

As our only regular contributor from Macedonia, I'd be very interested in your comments...I see a very polarised population in Macedonia, i see it very evenly divided along political tribal lines...I find that really sad because it devalues the entire political process and debate in the country and stops Macedonia from moving forward.

[Phoenix]

If there was to be a name change it wouldn't occur without a referendum.. hypothetically should that occur.. ( not saying I'm pro a name change) how is Macedonian identity effected? Will you or people you know stop calling themselves ethnic Macedonians ?
I really find it difficult to understand just how ethnic identity..something that is personal can be effected or altered by the name of the country you live in!

Firstly, this is Macedonia that we're talking about...quantum physics makes more sense than the Macedonian legal system...we've just witnessed a coup in the country, probably the formation of an illegal parallel form of government, totally unconstitutional...a cunt who wants to be PM without a mandate to make sweeping ethnic changes across the country and you're talking about referendums...Macedonia has a history of rigged election results, not to mention census data...

Secondly, once the name of the country has changed, God only knows what happens next...I certainly know of at least one group of mother-fuckers who will make it their life ambition to ensure that we're called something other than just Macedonian.

[Amphipolis]

Firstly, this is Macedonia that we're talking about...quantum physics makes more sense than the Macedonian legal system...we've just witnessed a coup in the country, probably the formation of an illegal parallel form of government, totally unconstitutional...a cunt who wants to be PM without a mandate to make sweeping ethnic changes across the country and you're talking about referendums...

I already asked twice. There must be a reason no one is answering.

What is exactly irregular or abnormal about electing the new speaker of the Parliament?

In Greece (and in most countries I guess), after the elections the new Parliament convenes, the Members take a vow and (I believe) the first thing they do, before providing confidence to the new government, they elect the new speaker, vice-speakers etc.

I DO understand VMRO-DPNE (and other parties?) didn't take part in the procedure, but even if it is repeated, how exactly will you stop the majority from electing their new speaker? Can the President do something? Is there something I'm missing? All countries have similar, but not identical rules.

[DraganOfStip]

I had a sense that you were more Zajko than Grujo.

Ah, so you're just another of those "if you're not with us - you're against us" people, e.g. if someone criticizes Grujo he's a "komunjar" by default, and if someone criticizes Zajko he's "VMROvec"...
One can't express a critic to someone without getting labeled as belonging to the "other camp".
See, that is exactly what's been holding us down all this time.

As our only regular contributor from Macedonia, I'd be very interested in your comments...I see a very polarised population in Macedonia, i see it very evenly divided along political tribal lines...I find that really sad because it devalues the entire political process and debate in the country and stops Macedonia from moving forward.

Whichever the outcome, knowing the Macedonians we will end up with a government led by either DPMNE or SDSM, which is practically the same thing. Macedonia is doomed either way, and Macedonians (and Macedonians only) are to blame. It's not Russia, or USA or the EU, we are the only culprits for our situation. We have the democratic power to change that ,but we won't. The last elections where despite all wrongdoings saw DPMNE and SDSM mass up 75% of all votes shows we have learned nothing. We deserve everything that's happening to us.

[Pelagonija]

If there was to be a name change it wouldn't occur without a referendum.. hypothetically should that occur.. ( not saying I'm pro a name change) how is Macedonian identity effected? Will you or people you know stop calling themselves ethnic Macedonians ?
I really find it difficult to understand just how ethnic identity..something that is personal can be effected or altered by the name of the country you live in!

Albo you and your paymasters keep on harping on human rights and democracy yet the EU and co don't even recognise the basic human rite of a small group of people of self determination. Why don't they put pressure on Greece? Lets rephrase the question and ask how does the name Macedonia impact Greece in anyway? No impact whatsoever, the only difference is that Greece is strategically more important to the west in its racist expansionist policy towards Russia

Of course a different name benefits your mob, to demoralise and dilute our nation.

The Albanians should F off, they already have two countries where they obtained with the wests support soft bastards. And if hypothetically Macedonia does disintegrate, believe me the Albanians won't come out as winners and won't be an ongoing factor.

Ps no need for referendums, with the fake 25% Albanians who have 4 citizenships from Kosovo, Albania and count dead people and tourists in census.

You and your lot are racist, and the funny thing is that you probably have more Slav DNA than the people on this forum. And somehow the ancient Illyrians morphed into today's Albanians and are the victim owners of the Balkans and this is the bases of this racist justification and ethnic cleansing of orthodox Christians in the Balkans