Republic of Macedonia's EU and NATO Strategies

[makedonche]

Don't say that to anyone else. I don't mind, because I can understand your ignorance about the political parties in greece, but don't say it to anyone else because they will lauph immensely.

Syriza is the complete opposite of Golden Dawn.
In fact it is Syriza that has a more mutual understanding approach to the name issue. Samaras is the leader of a right wing party, with far right wing opinions on most matters.

Spitfire
I know on paper they are two separate political parties, if you're saying they have nothing to do with each other, I disagree, here's some information for you:-

Made up of 16 ideologically diverse left-wing parties, SYRIZA includes "social democrats, radical ecologists, radical socialists, Trotskyists, and even anarchists", according to Matthaios Tsimitakis, a SYRIZA supporter and an editor of political blog Greek Left Review.

[spitfire]

Spitfire


Oh well there goes half your history! Tell me about the 4,000 years of continous history part.......if it's not mythology!



Which ones in particular?



....and your evidence of this is?



...really, then what do these following 2 quotes allude to?



...and



?????????????

You are really having reading comprehension problems, aren't you?

Get your facts straigh, for political parties and mythology.
I have evidence for my culture and language, you don't.
I was reffering to Rossos to show Philosopher that he can't use partly Rossos for an argument, because that shows no good integrity.

What is it you don't get?

[spitfire]

Spitfire
I know on paper they are two separate political parties, if you're saying they have nothing to do with each other, I disagree, here's some information for you:-

Are you aware where in the political spectrum anarchy is? It's left.

Are you aware where Golden Dawn is in the political spectrum? The far right, almost the fringe.

The initials SY.RIZ.A. stand for coallition of the radical left in greek.

I told you. Get your facts straight.

[makedonche]

You are really having reading comprehension problems, aren't you?

Get your facts straigh, for political parties and mythology.
I have evidence for my culture and language, you don't.
I was reffering to Rossos to show Philosopher that he can't use partly Rossos for an argument, because that shows no good integrity.

What is it you don't get?

Spitfire
You may want to do some more research about those 2 parties!
Referring to Rossos...and what else?
I get more than you think I do, particularly your purpose here!
BTW are you getting paid to be here?

[spitfire]

Spitfire
You may want to do some more research about those 2 parties!
Referring to Rossos...and what else?
I get more than you think I do, particularly your purpose here!
BTW are you getting paid to be here?

You are hillarious.

Here's the sitting that represents the political spectrum of the parties that were elected in the 2012 May elections. In the June elections Syriza got some more (today we have about two dozen that have turned indipendent but not from Syriza).



Do you know how ridiculous you sound when you say that the leftists have the same ideology with the far right???

What about Rossos? I made it clear didn't I?

Me getting paid? You are talking to a greek. Greeks don't get paid.

[makedonche]

Spitfire

Do you know how ridiculous you sound when you say that the leftists have the same ideology with the far right???

I never said they have the same idealogogy, this is what I said:-

if you're saying they have nothing to do with each other, I disagree,

You could have quite easily referred to Rossos and his integrity without the Macedonian Slav reference!

[spitfire]

Spitfire



I never said they have the same idealogogy, this is what I said:-


You could have quite easily referred to Rossos and his integrity without the Macedonian Slav reference!

You disagree that the left are opposite in everything with the right?

There have been street fights from the people of the "anarchist" (anti-governing is the correct term) political spectrum and the golden dawn. What on earth are you talking about?
There were dead people from both sides.

I reffered to Rossos to show Philosopher that he can't use Rossos to his "advantage". You make me repeat myself.

[Risto the Great]

They were citizens of a country that was formed two years before, by the neo-turks.
The turks, were a minority until the very end of the ottoman empire. Today everybody in turkey (except the Kurds) have a turkish conciousness. Do your study first my friend before you be historically inacurate.

2 years before. Yes. I was right.

Arvanites my friend. They were against the Albanians. Do your history study again.
In fact, the Albanians that were fighting alongside the Ottomans were called turk-albanians.
The Arvanites on the other hand were fighting alongside the greeks.

Some Macedonians were fighting on the side of Greeks. Same goes for the Russians who helped your independence. They spoke a different language and had different cultural traits. They are as Greek as Albanians are.

Absolutely. I don't deny the futile effort of purification though. Had it been a succesful one, we should have been be speaking that type of greek today. We never did.
In any case Katharevousa is greek also therefore this means nothing. It's still greek and not some other language.

I used to think more of you. It seems you are yet another Greek apologist. You don't deny the futility ??? I don't even understand that. But, in any case, it's all Greek. Excellent. You Greeks are so indoctrinated. You can't even accept the statements of the Professor Emeritus of Modern Greek at the University of Oxford. You know better, all Greeks do. I know.

Tell me more about Koine. I like to read it from people who haven't got any clue about the greek language. Be my guest in showing that you don't know what you are talking about.

I'm still waiting for your examples by the way. Any chance you provide me with one?
Just one.

See, here it is. I can show you any text in Greek and you can say you understand it. I know that. Tell me about the Morean in the 1800's who spoke Turkish/Albanian/Romaic. Would he understand the same Greek that you do? You can prove that to me.

Compare that to Macedonians. I have made my point many times about how the Macedonian language was not adulterated in the quest for some kind of link to "ancient credibility" like ummmm, modern Greek.

I don't know what the croatioans are doing. I don't care, I speak of the greek language.

Yeah, I know. I'll tell you. The Croatians are making a big deal out of distancing themselves from the Serbs. They are revising their language and trying to remove loan words. It isn't natural. It is forced and Croatians in the Diaspora are finding it increasingly difficult to understand their relatives back home now.

Instead of reading something about something you are not aware of, why don't you learn some greek and be up to the task of discussing this issue?
This is another example of how the demotic, the non purified, is close to the ancient greek.
So what happened to that purification of Katharevousa then?
Let me give you the answer:
All these are the same language.

Feel free to ask.

You can continue to deny that katharevousa had any impact on your modern language. You probably have to define your notion of demotic. Here is a Wikipedia definition:

Demotic is often thought to be the same as the Modern Greek language, but these two terms are not completely synonymous. Although Demotic is a term applied to the naturally evolved colloquial language of the Greeks, the Modern Greek language of today (Standard Modern Greek; Νεοελληνική Κοινή) is more like a fusion of Demotic and Katharevousa. It is not wrong to call the spoken language of today Demotic, but such a terminology ignores the fact that Modern Greek contains—especially in a written or official form—numerous words, grammatical forms and phonetical features that didn't exist in colloquial speech and only entered the language through its archaic variety. Besides, even the most archaic forms of Katharevousa were never thought of as Ancient Greek, but were always called "Modern Greek", so that the phrase "Modern Greek" applies to Demotic, Standard Modern Greek, and even Katharevousa.

Whatever. Be proud of your modern identity. Maybe visit France and find Korais' descendants to thank them.

[spitfire]

2 years before. Yes. I was right.

This is ridiculous. I explained you why the greeks considered them their people, and how the turks considered their people in the exchange.
It's because of cultural and linguistic bonds.
You are bringing an example of two countries that agree on that as a third person. You won't get far I'm afraid.

Some Macedonians were fighting on the side of Greeks. Same goes for the Russians who helped your independence. They spoke a different language and had different cultural traits. They are as Greek as Albanians are.

Yes and what does that prove about the language?

I used to think more of you. It seems you are yet another Greek apologist. You don't deny the futility ??? I don't even understand that. But, in any case, it's all Greek. Excellent. You Greeks are so indoctrinated. You can't even accept the statements of the Professor Emeritus of Modern Greek at the University of Oxford. You know better, all Greeks do. I know.

I did too, but you seem to confuse everything about the greek language thinking that you are talking about a different language.

You need to answer why we don't use the Katharvousa type today. It was a futile effort to purify the language, because it was never used and it was futile effort from the beginning because it was based on the same language.
I can't make it any more simple for you to understand.

See, here it is. I can show you any text in Greek and you can say you understand it. I know that. Tell me about the Morean in the 1800's who spoke Turkish/Albanian/Romaic. Would he understand the same Greek that you do? You can prove that to me.

Here you go again about speaking about people that did not speak greek but a different language.
Do you understand the difference at all?

Compare that to Macedonians. I have made my point many times about how the Macedonian language was not adulterated in the quest for some kind of link to "ancient credibility" like ummmm, modern Greek.

I am comparing it and I find your language a slavic one.

I am comparing all the types of greek and guess what? I find it greek! Pretty amazing huh?

Yeah, I know. I'll tell you. The Croatians are making a big deal out of distancing themselves from the Serbs. They are revising their language and trying to remove loan words. It isn't natural. It is forced and Croatians in the Diaspora are finding it increasingly difficult to understand their relatives back home now.

So you are telling me that croatians are doing what Korais tried to do (I don't know this, I take your word for it).
Well good luck to them then. In the context of time it is highly probable that their effort will be proved futile too.

You can continue to deny that katharevousa had any impact on your modern language. You probably have to define your notion of demotic. Here is a Wikipedia definition:

I'm not denying, I'm speaking with facts, that you so obviously deny to confront.
So what does wikipedia say here? That all those types are related. You know why? Because it's the same language.
Thankfully this part is included:
so that the phrase "Modern Greek" applies to Demotic, Standard Modern Greek, and even Katharevousa.

Well what d' ya know!? Demotic, Standard Modern Greek and Katharevousa refer to modern greek but only the modern greek is related to the ancient greek? How so?
Ignorance is bliss... .
A bit funny, but usual for those who speak about it without having any clue.
A case of self-cancelling argument, just like the futile effort of Korais.

Whatever. Be proud of your modern identity. Maybe visit France and find Korais' descendants to thank them.

My modern identity is perfectly synchronized with the greek identity through culture and language through the milenia. I can read,write,talk,listen to greek everywhere I find it regardless of era or place.
This is not the case with you I'm afraid.

I'm waiting still for you to prove me how these types are of different languages.
It's pretty obvious that it is the same. Unless you haven't the foggiest idea about it.

[Philosopher]

OK smartarse, show me exactly where I claimed this - the precise quote thanks, otherwise piss off back to your Greek Macedonia.

Here is part I:

You can call yourself whatever you like....except don't try and be Macedonian.....unless both your parents are Macedonian! Which part don't you understand? If you are half of one and half another, don't bother calling yourself Macedonian, simple enough for you?

Here is part II:

I get it crystal clear, what Philosopher fails to grasp is that every time you dilute the Macedonian identity, either through genetics or self identification as half or part Macedonian or Greek Macedonian or Macedonian Greek, you feed the Greeks all the ammunition they need to use against you, understand?

Here is part III:

Personally if you are half Macedonian and half something else, in my eyes you're not Macedonian - if you wish to identify as Macedonian..feel free

Not too bad for a cursory search.

Now I am convinced you have comprehension difficulties, similar to Spitfire, obviously made from the same cloth.......once again please post the exact quote, don't go inventing anything like your Greek friend!

Here is your previous statement on this:

Thank you for disclosing your level of intelligence, if you read your own comments in the context of this thread and what Macedonia would have to sacrifice to get into the EU & NATO and how idiotic your comments are in relation to Macedonia and Macedonians and their identity, you will eventually discover where the stupidity lays!

This sure sounds like you are stating I support EU and NATO membership at the cost of Macedonian identity.

I could't give a rat's arse how long you've been around, you're the one suggesting it's ok to call yourself Greek Macedonian, so what...now you don't like the new tag you've created for yourself? You don't need to answer yourself to me....unless you make idiotic comments about me or imply I'm something other than Macedonian ( without factual evidence I might ad).

I'm not Greek Macedonian, nor have I ever called myself Greek Macedonian. Why don't you ask the Greeks on this forum if they think I am Greek Macedonian? You have serious mental issues.

Again?......show me the exact quote!

Vangelovski asked you the following question:

How do you know that you are a 'pure-blooded' Macedonian? Do you have conclusive proof that you have no Turkish, Vlach or even Greek ancestors? Or something else?

You responded with:

Vangelovski

I have no doubts about who and what I am and don't need to prove it to anyone, I'm sure you are the same!

So you affirm your Macedonian purity. Here is another:

You presumptuous turd, just because you don't know what the fuck you are, doesn't mean nobody else does. Kindly refrain from trying to tell me what I am and what I'm not, you half Greek dropkick!

When you couple these answers along with your other purity comments, it is obvious.

Prove it!

Makendonche, you are a complete idiot.

New research by Peter Ralph of USC Dornsife has confirmed that everyone on Earth is related to everyone else on the planet. So the Trojan Family is not just a metaphor. Turns out, we're also linked by genetics more closely than previously thought. The assistant professor of computational biology's background in math and statistics enables him to develop methods and models and perform data analysis on genomic data, which he applies to learn about evolution and demography. His latest research, which he conducted with Graham Coop, a geneticist at University of California, Davis—his former postdoctoral advisor—provided DNA-based evidence to confirm the mathematical theory that everyone on Earth is related.

http://phys.org/news/2013-08-dna-earth.html

And

The first survey of European genealogical ancestry over the past 3,000 years has found that all people of European descent are related – even if they now live on opposite sides of the continent.

Further research is expected to show that every human is related no matter how distantly to every other member of the human species and that classifying people by race is biologically wrong.

http://www.universityworldnews.com/article.php?story=20130604161354244

Your inability to grasp the essence of what I am referring to in the context of this thread, proves beyond reasonable doubt who has serious problems! That being the case you are in no position to determine who needs professional help...imbecile. Defamation????? WTF...those are all your good points, go and look up the definition of defamation you moron, you're on a forum, better still go home and cry to your mother.

Checkmate Makendonche, checkmate.

[Philosopher]

This is a point where you can't bring Rossos up then. That's because you are selecting only the parts that you think are in your favor.

I like to be a little more credible and straightforward to my arguments. It's a matter of integrity.

I think Rossos is exaggerating the numbers.

Rossos isn't "exaggerating the numbers", he is documenting the numbers determined by the BFO. He has a citation to support it.

If you are going to claim he exaggerated the numbers, look up the census by the BFO, and report the numbers on the forum. If they differ from Rossos' numbers, then you would have proved your allegation.

Second, the argument you are making is rather weak. Documenting a "census" is very different than "analyzing history".

The Slavic Migration Theory is, well, a theory. A census is not a theory. It is a census.

You trying to conflate the two makes no sense.

[spitfire]

Rossos isn't "exaggerating the numbers", he is documenting the numbers determined by the BFO. He has a citation to support it.

If you are going to claim he exaggerated the numbers, look up the census by the BFO, and report the numbers on the forum. If they differ from Rossos' numbers, then you would have proved your allegation.

Second, the argument you are making is rather weak. Documenting a "census" is very different than "analyzing history".

The Slavic Migration Theory is, well, a theory. A census is not a theory. It is a census.

You trying to conflate the two makes no sense.

How difficult is it for you to understand that Rossos takes for granted numbers that refer to macedonian slavs?
It's either the numbers wrong or the macedonians he refers to, slavs.

[Nikolaj]

How difficult is it for you to understand that Rossos takes for granted numbers that refer to macedonian slavs?
It's either the numbers wrong or the macedonians he refers to, slavs.

Please elaborate, what's your point? Rossos agree's with the slavic migration theory, were you not the one enlightened in the other thread with the issues with this theory? This is what I assume his ethnic graphing is based on, however I have not read his book; which I will read later today. We know which 'people' we are referring to, that is the important thing here.

[spitfire]

Please elaborate, what's your point? Rossos agree's with the slavic migration theory, were you not the one enlightened in the other thread with the issues with this theory? This is what I assume his ethnic graphing is based on, however I have not read his book; which I will read later today. We know which 'people' we are referring to, that is the important thing here.

What is there to elaborate on? Do you take Rossos and the BFO for granted? If yes then you accept the numbers that talk about Macedonian Slavs.
If not then you don't take for granted the numbers that talk about Macedonian Slavs.

What other thread, what theory and what enlightenment? The only thing I remember is summing up your thesis on the matter somewhere. Maybe you confuse me with someone else.

[Nikolaj]

What is there to elaborate on? Do you take Rossos and the BFO for granted? If yes then you accept the numbers that talk about Macedonian Slavs.
If not then you don't take for granted the numbers that talk about Macedonian Slavs.

What other thread, what theory and what enlightenment? The only thing I remember is summing up your thesis on the matter somewhere. Maybe you confuse me with someone else.

You are correct Spitfire: http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...t=7817&page=14

His ethnic labelling and overall analysis uses the basis of the slavic migration theory.

You also stated you understand our position, however I do not know your position on whether or not you agree with us, or what you agree and disagree with.

I am sure you have read that genetic studies contradict what the slavic migration theory proposes.

If by agreeing the slavic migration theory is false, why is his ethnic labelling relevant? What is relevant is the census of that period of time to establish who was actually the ethnic majority in Macedonia.

You are asking why? Think of it logically. If another theory is proposed, or if another theory is debunked e.g. slavic migration, these numbers are still of use as they are independent. Which is why the ethnic labelling of the Macedonians is irrelevant, as we are only interested in a distinct majority in a certain geographic region.