Kevin Rudd Prime Minister Again

[Vangelovski]

Government actions can certainly influence the level of personal debt. Negative gearing artificially inflates the value of properties for example. Though it better not end any time soon!

Monetary policies will immediately impact on interest rates.

Not mind boggling at all. They can make or break the personal debt!

I know that they can influence personal debt, but my question was why should they in the context of Phoenix's all encompassing wording.

[George S.]

its not rocket science you live within your means & adjust your borrowings etc to suit yourself .govts are not any different they have to control their spending etc just like an individual besides interest rates have come down drastically .You can borrow for a car at 4% which is pretty cheap.Remember the oldays of the 1970's,1980's hire purchase was anything from 25 to 40 % that was the killer.Home interest rates got as much as 18% under keating.Nowdays its not that bad 5% and falling.Do you guys know that in japan they had 0 interest on money borrowed some of you will love to hear that.If only we could get that type of money.?

[Risto the Great]

At the moment our government should be borrowing money like there's no tomorrow to take advantage of cheap money on world markets, this money should be spent on massive infrastructure projects across the country to place Australia in an enviable position against it's international competitors, not the bullshit "crisis" scenario peddled by Abbott and swallowed by his acolytes

Oh my. No mate. They should have done that instead of putting insulation in people's houses and handing out stupid money to stupid people. The debt is very real. I've never seen the ATO with such vigour for seeking payment and such delays from all forms of government in paying private enterprise.

[Risto the Great]

I know that they can influence personal debt, but my question was why should they in the context of Phoenix's all encompassing wording.

Neither are particularly good and they are related.

[Big Bad Sven]

Agreed. People don't like to delve into this issue due to its sensitivity and the fear of being labelled a racist, but our universities (and even schools) are selling-out the domestic students to an extent. They rely heavily on the full-fee students in order to develop and maintain their business model, which is ultimately the fault of the government. It's rather frightening when you look at the composition of some schools/unis and the majority are international students. I have nothing against them, but I think domestic students should be given every opportunity before spots are given away to rich foreigners.

These internationals (if they end up staying in Australia) will begin to take a lot of senior positions in the country. I believe that people should be judged on merit, but not at the expense of a domestic student missing out. Conversely, the mass-migration of South-Eastern Europeans during the mid-late 20th century saw the majority working in unskilled jobs, which paid bugger all and had hazards left, right and centre. The underprivileged and refugees should be given every possible opportunity to advance their lives in Australia, but rich immigrants should be subject to more restrictions. Some may argue that they are essential to the growth of the economy and productivity, but we have seen the Australian way of life deteriorate over-time. I don't think the trade-off is worth it in the long-run.

The Coalition budget will only exasperate the issues highlighted above. Universities will eventually be given discretion to charge as they please and even more young people will be dissuaded from obtaining a tertiary degree. Typical Liberal policy, look after the rich and stuff the rest.

I went to a univeristy that was almost all internationals. The uni i went to basically had a bad reputation of squeezing every little cent they could get out of internationals (domestic students as well) - but i guess that is every uni in australia these days.

A lot of professions are now flooded with international graduates and also international workers (457 visa's etc). Just look at IT, Accounting and pharmacey. Industries that are over saturated with grads. Uni courses should operate like how the school of medicine and nursing operates - their is a cap of the amount of students that are allowed to be enrolled each year. But of course this wont happen as the greedy uni's want to make as much money as they can, and dont give a damn about their students level of education. I remember in a lot of the lectures i went to there were so many students that a lot of people couldnt get seats and had to sit on the stairs or sit in the back. What a joke.

Australia is obsessed into conning the youngster into debt(uni), however, they fiercely and violently opposed granting them any chance of getting training which is truly ironic.

I read in a recent article that since 2010 the number of international students studying accounting has increased by 500% while the amount of local students has decreased by 20%. The article said that only 1 out of 4 accounting student was australian, thats saying only 25% of australian accounting grads are australian and english is their native language. The same happened with IT years ago as well. What a disgrace! Maybe aussie students are not as dumb as people think and have realized what a dead end industry accounting is.

Its not just the uni's fault. The australian computer society has for a long time encouraged that more jobs should be outsourced and spreads lies that there is a 'skills shortage' in IT in Australia. A few years ago the president of the australian computer society was a indian as well LOLOLOL.
Its the same in the accounting industry, the CPA and CA are only pushing the lie that there is a skills shortage of accountants in australia only so that they can increase their memberships and make more profits. They even are pro outsourcing as well.

International students also take the jobs of local graduates as well. Small accounting firms (usually tax firms) are notorious for hiring international grads. They do this because they can get away with paying international students peanuts, and internationals are submissive beta's that are yes-men and never rock the boat. These greedy CUNTS are the reason why local graduates miss out. But these greedy CUNTS fail to realize that they are making their children's lives worse. How would they feel if their children were in the same boat?

You are right that these international students will become business leaders in the future. A lot of them are in high positions, some even have opened up their own firms and only hire grads from their background. Its the same in uni, a lot of internationals become unit-co coordinators and mark internationals more leniently and are more harder on locals.

In the end people like 457 visa workers, international students etc are tools to be used by the government to bring down salaries and workers rights in australia. Its already worked in industries like IT, accounting and pharmacy.
Surprisingly blue collar workers have stood up to this thanks to their strong unions. Not surprisingly since most blue collar people are good honest hard working people, unlike greedy spineless white collar jerks who would gladly stab each other in the back just for a few extra dollars. In saying that the government has allowed a lot of poms and irish and people from NZ to do more blue collar work so expect tradies salaries to go down.....

[Big Bad Sven]

btw in terms of house pricing. A large majority of houses are purchased and owned in Australia are by people from china, England and India.....

[Phoenix]

I know that they can influence personal debt, but my question was why should they in the context of Phoenix's all encompassing wording.

I think Risto has already made some good points regarding this statement, particularly around the issue of negative gearing and it's effect in inflating housing values.

Governments need to create economic policies that provide for long term, sustained and controlled growth, not contribute to the equivalent of a runaway greenhouse event in our housing market.

I understand that you're all for small government and even less governmental influence but monetary policy needs to be managed rather than thrown at the mercy of market forces alone, otherwise land ownership will be in the hands of an ever shrinking group of elites...

[Phoenix]

Oh my. No mate. They should have done that instead of putting insulation in people's houses and handing out stupid money to stupid people. The debt is very real. I've never seen the ATO with such vigour for seeking payment and such delays from all forms of government in paying private enterprise.

I didn't agree with the insulation scheme or the way money was splashed around during the GFC.
I'm talking about tangible infrastructure projects, new airports, rail links, highways, ports and telecommunications. Exactly the assets our economy needs to remain competitive and relevant into the future.

I imagine the ATO to operate in a 'law of the jungle' survivability, whereby the large predators feast on the weak in the food chain.

I've seen it with the large multi-national that I work for, the little vendors are at the end of the queue when it comes to getting paid...

I understand that the debt is real, I'm just disputing it's significance.

[Phoenix]

I was referring to government expenses - higher education was the current example. Where exactly would you obtain the funds to pay for it?

I don't believe that higher education should be available only to the financially elite in society, that's where I fear Liberal Governments have always led us.

I'm happy that the cost burden be shared by both the user and subsidised by the government.
In terms of the governments co-contribution to an individuals higher education it could be viewed as an investment for the future, whereby the government will get some/all money back through a HECS type loan repayment as well as the future and less tangible skills and benefits that higher educated citizens will contribute to society in general.
I think this is another one of those bullshit arguments thrown around by the Liberals that is grounded more so in ideology rather than any form of financial or economic reality...this debate has raged in Australian politics at least since the 1970's - Whitlam and Fraser years...possibly longer...

[Vangelovski]

I don't believe that higher education should be available only to the financially elite in society, that's where I fear Liberal Governments have always led us.

I'm happy that the cost burden be shared by both the user and subsidised by the government.
I think this is another one of those bullshit arguments thrown around by the Liberals that is grounded more so in ideology rather than any form of financial or economic concerns...this debate has raged in Australian politics at least since the 1970's - Whitlam and Fraser years...possibly longer...

Higher education is one example in the broader picture.

I don't think it should only be available to those that are financially well off either. But I still haven't seen any proposals on where the money (that the government chips in) should/could come from.

At the end of the day there are only two sources of funds - debt and taxation. We end up paying for both, so really there is only one source of funds - the people. People talk as if there is some magic bucket of money that the government dips into, but that bucket is really our pockets. That's all well and good until the government starts spending more than it can actually tax out of us before it becomes counter productive.

P.S. If you fear coalition governments have always led us to only the financially well off being able undertake higher education, then you should look at the actual participation rates. That may alleviate some of your concerns.

[julie]

I am going to add my 2 cents worth in here.
Something we do not have is accountability and transparency, if its happening in one govt department am imagining its happening at all levels.

There is nil accountability and transparency. Supposed legislation is enforced for it to be managed across every sector at all levels.
This is not happening. Conflict of interest abounds, whether we are talking labor or liberal they are both the same pieces of shit, both are in for their own self interests and agendas.

Where you get some rabid corporate that has debts in one company or several, and this corporate wanker decides to create another company that is not even based in this country and then decides to operate it at a loss ( dont do it for 2 years straight or you are insolvent ), and then decides to put a 2 billion dollar claim in for XYZ company taxation credit, we have a serious problem.

That problem gets compounded when at that time we are in the midst of an election, so we stall this credit at the full knowledge of both rabid labor/liberal parties and et voila the person that controls and brainwashes the masses receives a lovely one billion dollars of taxpayers money , its on public record Dec 2013.

The corporates and the taxation loopholes, the negative gearing, is set up in such a way that the magnates pay very little tax. If anything. Nor are they pursued for outstandings. I have serious issues with the way our whole taxation system is set up , there for the rorting by the top 1 percent .

Why is it we are not imposing fuel excise taxes on the mining congolomerate with profits that are going offshore raping our environment and resources in this country. Instead, we are further taxing the people that are supporting the economy trying to make ends meet,

We are purchasing obsolete scrap metal junk from the USA at a cost that is going to blow out to 17 billion dollars, head of that project has stated himself, maintenance issues are a nightmare and they are fraught with flaws. I guess it keeps USA in employment lol.

Problem we have here is the way the education system is set up. High schools are a complete waste of time for a lot of students, what we need here to stimulate the economy is introduce a system whereby a student will study 4 days a week and spend one day a week with small business or a tradesperson - giving them the traineeships for skilled trades, or college to finish off a degree - provide decent tax breaks to small business, to enable them to offer some token payment for these students, and skilling them up, and further incentives in retention of these students on completing high school in the workforce.
No one is looking at the long term unemployed, and I resent being called names ( not that am on DSP yet ) and told to get a job where I have busted my guts my entire life working. I also find it distasteful having a son completed biomedical nanotechnology working in a call centre because we have a god loving PM who abolished the science portfolio, to save for his phd, now to find he will have to add a further $30,000 onto his HECS debt - yet we can offer scholarships to the PM daughter as has been leaked today. He has a small mortgage to pay as it is off his uni debt before he can think about buying a home.

If the government is investing in infrastructure, it will create employment and the confidence in the market to spend. We dont have that. We have the government issuing 457 visas to migrant workers who are sending those dollars back to their homeland. I find that distasteful . I have my middle son working in a factory with a cert 4 builders licence and project manager qualification saving for uni , as he cannot get employment in an industry that has fallen - the building industry is falling apart at the seams, the banks since they have deregulated have stringent lending requirements making it impossible for the average person to build a home. Its not just the builders - its a flow on , with the tradespeople, assistants and it flows on from there

To look at sustainability you need to look at long term, and a government in surplus is poor economics - a government in surplus is one where you have high unemployment.

Everyone seems to forget we had a GFC that Australia weathered, and look at GDP -
We should be imposing import tarriffs, there are a lot of measures that can be taken without resorting to attacking the disadvantaged groups of people

As for the aged, think its unfair - there was no superannuation set up until recently in our history, people worked hard, contributed and Australia said would look after our aging population. People dont ask to give birth to disabled children either, and the measures they are introducing are going to cause homelessness, and high suicide amongst the sick.

Our public health care system in SA has been a shambles, the state with the highest wariting lists for surgery. This is going to worsen, and imposing taxes on people that are already struggling is mind boggling to me, whilst I watch the corporates with the taxation loopholes, the bullshit negative gearing, walk away without paying a cent in tax.

We have some very bright minds today and the ability to invest in new initiatives for clean CHEAP sustainable and renewable energy. We wont because we have deregulated industries and utility companies and profits are going offshore.

I am not feeling good about this budget, with the erosion of workplace laws, can see under 30's being abused, employment terminated . How are they supposed to pay rent or a mortgage for 6 months and feed themselves ? Its a system devised to give them employment to work for Gina's $2 a day - we are fast going backward. Or the joke with the over 50's.....encourages employers to sack the over 50's,. employ another over 50, collect $10,000, sack that person and continue .

This budget is fantastic for the people that are cashed up, that can afford to look after their families , their children . Those that are already doing it tough, its going to get ten times worse for them

And George, that 3 worded slogan party, they will love you , such a mouthpiece for their indoctrination, have you hook,. line and sinker.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

B]I've never seen the ATO with such vigour for seeking payment and such delays from all forms of government in paying private enterprise.[/B]

They'll be working even harder when 16,000+ public servants are given the boot, with over 2000 in the ATO alone.

[George S.]

I beg to disagree just because money is cheap we should borrow to the hilt how stupid is that ????WE get into strife borrowing now we want govts to get us into debt.??Do something worthwhile like with a positive surplus don't waste money for the sake of it.
money should not be spent willy-nilly to get a warm fuzzy feeling on infrastructure.Any infrastructure.Infracture should be based on whether you can afford it not simply for the sake of it.Some people advocate spending & WASTING a hell lot of money for the sake of it.What a bunch of stupid so so's .Why is it silly ,think about it .Rudd doodled on a bit of tissue paper on a plane trip coz he had to zip and so the nbn was born.NO costing no nothing govts I don't care what persuasion should not be allowed to do uncosted infrastructure projects.A project like the nbn is a white elephant a waste of money costing supposedly 50billion & real cost is double that.What a waste of fucking money.
I prefer if govts especially incompetent ones lay off spending vast amounts of money on UNCOSTED,no feasibility studies projects & losing that borrowed money down the gurgler just because it sounds good .Guess what the libs have said they could build an nbn for 10 billion dollars.A fraction that's what I call responsible budgeting how about like the americans wireless internet rather than cables.THe nbn has beenga monumental disaster,a huuge fuck up where hardly anyone has taken it up a disaster if you please.
Phoenix & all you ..advocatring stupid spending on a grandscale take a bow please coz you haven't earned yor lesson.That's why things are difficult too much intervention by the govt do you guys want every time you scratch your nose you want govts to interfere & tell you what to do.??

[Phoenix]

George, have you started wearing red budgie smugglers and hating women as well?

The sky isn't falling down my friend, really it's not...Australia hasn't got a "debt crisis", we've never lived in an "age of entitlement" and we'll never "stop the boats" nor should we fear the "illegals" once they get here.

If you want progress in society and standards of living, a means to that end is the borrowing of money and the subsequent debt. Gone are the days when you could save up and buy a house, car or any big ticket item with cash.
Debt is the acceptable outcome of all investment, personal and government.

The only responsibility is that a government be accountable for the money it borrows.
We are living in an age where 'cheap' money is available and a responsible government should be tapping into that 'cheap' money to build a better Australia, this in turn will future proof our infrastructure and the investments will create employment and the cogs of capitalism will freely turn...

"Spend, spend, spend" should be your slogan George, spend like there's no tomorrow...

[George S.]

phoenix I don't wear budgie snuglers only to the beach.ou call that we don't have a debt crisis we need to borrow more?what for so we can waste it & burden our children with a debt.Do you know the labor party ran out of money & so it tried to borrow money look at what responsible govt has got us no where.Put someone else in & we are getting somewhere by spending more you are going to raise interest rates & inflation.
so phoenix we should only borrow if we really need to .Live within your needs .