Palestinians VS Israelis

[George S.]

The us is behind a lot of countries around the world.They are picking & choosing of who they are in bed with.Probably for different reasons oil & resources could be one.

[Olympiada]

macedonians got no balls to tell lthe un that the interim name is over we are not fyrom.If need be will burn their fucken united building to the ground.Who are they to determine who we are, fuck them.These are fighting words from me one individual , but our politicians have let us down.They have become slaves of the system.

Τhis is not about balls, its about surviving in the Balkans. If you say the interim is over, then Greece will embargo you, again, just we did back in the 90s.
Embargo from Greece doesn't mean only no investments from Greece but also blockading everything that comes from Greek ports. And that will break down your unstable economy. And you know its not times to play with economies.

Also, that does mean that Greece can easily Veto you both in EU and Nato, for a country that does NOT recognize as such.
With all your neighbors advancing, economically and politically(joining Nato and/or EU), you will be the only vulnerable one.

Do you think that this is the best for your country's future? If yes, then , hell yeah, go on and void the interim accord.
Then by all means, Greece will happily do all the above, since you started it.

[The LION will ROAR]

Τhis is not about balls, its about surviving in the Balkans. If you say the interim is over, then Greece will embargo you, again, just we did back in the 90s.
Embargo from Greece doesn't mean only no investments from Greece but also blockading everything that comes from Greek ports. And that will break down your unstable economy. And you know its not times to play with economies.

Also, that does mean that Greece can easily Veto you both in EU and Nato, for a country that does NOT recognize as such.
With all your neighbors advancing, economically and politically(joining Nato and/or EU), you will be the only vulnerable one.

Do you think that this is the best for your country's future? If yes, then , hell yeah, go on and void the interim accord.
Then by all means, Greece will happily do all the above, since you started it.

I don't think Greece is in the position financially to place an Embargo to Macedonia..

And that will break down your unstable economy

Hahaha thanks funny, coming from a lazy good for nothing bankrupted nation that will never pay off it's debt and could lead to civil unrest calling Macedonia unstable...

since you started it.

And what do you mean we Started it..?

[Olympiada]

I don't think Greece is in the position financially to place an Embargo to Macedonia..
..

Just because Greece has a fucked up economy , doesn't mean that you are in better position.
And be so sure that Greece can't embargo you.

And what do you mean we Started it..?

It means in case YOU void the interim accord, then Greece is free to do such acts.

[TrueMacedonian]

Τhis is not about balls, its about surviving in the Balkans. If you say the interim is over, then Greece will embargo you, again, just we did back in the 90s.
Embargo from Greece doesn't mean only no investments from Greece but also blockading everything that comes from Greek ports. And that will break down your unstable economy. And you know its not times to play with economies.

Also, that does mean that Greece can easily Veto you both in EU and Nato, for a country that does NOT recognize as such.
With all your neighbors advancing, economically and politically(joining Nato and/or EU), you will be the only vulnerable one.

Do you think that this is the best for your country's future? If yes, then , hell yeah, go on and void the interim accord.
Then by all means, Greece will happily do all the above, since you started it.

This isn't the 1990's anymore. Modern greece isn't exactly in a strong economic position to dictate terms to anyone. Besides Macedonia can use the ports of Montenegro just as easily.

And just how bad is modern greece doing? Well here are the consequences the world is suffering from a default like hell

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/global-markets/wall-street-opens-lower-on-greece-concerns-dow-slips-0-57/articleshow/10093424.cms

[Olympiada]

This isn't the 1990's anymore. Modern greece isn't exactly in a strong economic position to dictate terms to anyone. Besides Macedonia can use the ports of Montenegro just as easily.

And just how bad is modern greece doing? Well here are the consequences the world is suffering from a default like hell


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/10093424.cms

So, since there is not a problem for you, Greece can blockade the ports

Also, can Veto both in EU, and Nato.

[TrueMacedonian]

So, since there is not a problem for you, Greece can blockade the ports

Also, can Veto both in EU, and Nato.

I guess the water in greece is spiked with LSD. If you make up the next generation of greece I hope a vasectomy is in the cards so things like you will not contaminate the world.

I don't think alot of Macedonians really care for the EU. I surely can't think of anything good about such an obsolete model that it has become. Irregardless, me or you are not politicians in power you mental giant. There's more importance in using toilet paper for your ears, you sh!t for brains, than repeating a poor irrelevant threat over and over again.

[Olympiada]

I guess the water in greece is spiked with LSD. If you make up the next generation of greece I hope a vasectomy is in the cards so things like you will not contaminate the world.

I don't think alot of Macedonians really care for the EU. I surely can't think of anything good about such an obsolete model that it has become. Irregardless, me or you are not politicians in power you mental giant. There's more importance in using toilet paper for your ears, you sh!t for brains, than repeating a poor irrelevant threat over and over again.

I didn't enter this forum to insult ( And believe me, I have no problem to do it), but to respect your views (no matter how much I disagree) , and show you mine. In response, I got this kind of talk.

And...what a speech ! You are one step before being in the trees mumbling Uba-uba.
This is the way you provide your arguments? By insulting? I am not suprised though, this is probaly the best you can do.

No hard feelings though, you just made sure to me, that this is what you are and what you'll always be. Low-leveled.

Care or not about EU,this is not my problem, really. And of course, this is nothing I can deal with, too, since I am just a citizen.

But if you (plural) don't care, then Greece will freely VETO you, so, no problem.! You don't care anyway! Right?

There is no wonder why you are the less advance country out of all the ex-Yugoslav.All of them started from the same level as you did, and some had way more problems, but you are still behind them... When all of them will be part of EU, and will freely import and export goods with no tax (because EU is not only Eurozone and Euro) , when all the other countries will be part of the Nato alliance

Bye

[TrueMacedonian]

I didn't enter this forum to insult ( And believe me, I have no problem to do it), but to respect your views (no matter how much I disagree) , and show you mine. In response, I got this kind of talk.

And...what a speech ! You are one step before being in the trees mumbling Uba-uba.
This is the way you provide your arguments? By insulting? I am not suprised though, this is probaly the best you can do.

No hard feelings though, you just made sure to me, that this is what you are and what you'll always be. Low-leveled.

Care or not about EU,this is not my problem, really. And of course, this is nothing I can deal with, too, since I am just a citizen.

But if you (plural) don't care, then Greece will freely VETO you, so, no problem.! You don't care anyway! Right?

There is no wonder why you are the less advance country out of all the ex-Yugoslav.All of them started from the same level as you did, and some had way more problems, but you are still behind them... When all of them will be part of EU, and will freely import and export goods with no tax (because EU is not only Eurozone and Euro) , when all the other countries will be part of the Nato alliance

Bye

And you accomplished nothing in exchange. Big whoopty do for brains. Enjoy these telling photos of what is happening in your country

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2761&page=61

[Soldier of Macedon]

So, since there is not a problem for you, Greece can blockade the ports

Also, can Veto both in EU, and Nato.

So long as the Macedonian government keeps using the treacherous 'provisional name' I hope that Greece continues to blockade our entry. You obviously don't realise that this works in favour of the Macedonian Cause. Life in Macedonia didn't drastically improve even after the blockade was lifted in the 90's, so save your threats for those that actually give a shit and worry about your own backyard. You should be greatful that Macedonians still come to (the Macedonian part of) Greece and spend money. Does Salonika still have these signs in their shops like they did in 1977?

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3414

A sign in his window announces that Macedonian, the language of Yugoslavia's southermost republic, is spoken. The language is now a requirement for all of his clerks. In the large department stores of Glaoudatos and Dimitriadis, price tags are in both Greek drachmas and Yugoslav dinars. Clerks speaking Macedonian are given preference in hiring. Some shops advertise a 10 per cent discount for the free-spending Yugoslavs.

Macedonia needs to approach the UN and demand for its recognition through the right to self-determination as enshrined in the UN charter. It doesn't need Greece to approve anything.

[George S.]

olimpiada you talk of blockading ports as if its perfectly legal thing to do.What you are proposing is completely illegal & i'm sure it violates quite a number of rules & laws.Last time
it happened none of the eu countries supported greece &told greece to lift it's embargo & greece didn't.But the thing you miss perhaps you are not so bright is the immense damage it is causing not only to macedonia but to nearby countries.Also the eu was going to sue greece for damages to macedonia but didn't.Lets hope this time if your country imposes an embargo get's sued for last time & the next time you put the stupid embargo on.If you know yor history your country is in a huge debt of which it cannot get out the least you can do is apologise to TM & SOM for being rude.Remember its your country that's got the shit for brains attitude of paranoia & wanting to veto eu & nato membership.Why because it's scared it will be found out that greece stole macedonian lands it supposedly "liberated"from the turks in 1913.You must be so scared that you are going to shit in your pants you clown.You come on this forum & you are insulting because you can't come to the reality of what your nazi country is doing.I have nothing but hatred & contempt for your country for what it has done & is doing.Wake up to yourselves & get a reality check you are behaving like zombies on this forum.If the truth scares you go back to your malaka moronic website.That's where they teach you how to lie to yourselves & be paranoid about real macedonians.It's simple just deny we exist or that we are something else besides macedonians simply deny us the right to exist you moron.

[Soldier of Macedon]

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/130481733.html

U.N. gets Palestine bid for statehood
Just after the request was made, a plan to restart talks with Israel was reached.

UNITED NATIONS - The Palestinian leader took his people's quest for independence to the heart of world diplomacy Friday, seeking U.N. recognition of Palestine and sidestepping negotiations that have floundered for nearly two decades under the weight of inflexibility, violence, and failure of will.

The bid to win recognition of a state in the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem - submitted over the objections of the United States - laid bare the deep sense of Palestinian exasperation.

"The time is now for the Palestinian Spring, the time for independence," Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas declared.

"The time has come to end the suffering and the plight of millions of Palestine refugees in the homeland and the diaspora, to end their displacement and to realize their rights."

Shortly after Abbas submitted his proposal, international powers reached an agreement on terms to restart talks between Israel and the Palestinians, diplomats and Obama administration officials said.

The skeletal proposal by the so-called diplomatic quartet - the United States, Russia, the European Union, and the United Nations - calls for Israelis and Palestinians to each offer comprehensive plans within three months of resuming talks and to finish the entire negotiation by the end of 2012.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton called the initiative a "concrete and detailed plan" and urged the two sides to "take advantage of the opportunity to get back to talks."

Privately, diplomats are deeply pessimistic about the prospects of a deal. The release of the proposal late Friday after a week of high drama and drawn-out diplomacy underscores how desperate U.S. and European officials are to draw the adversaries back to peace talks, rather than see the Palestinians rely on their sovereignty bid.

Similar plans have failed to produce a peace agreement, and it was unclear how the two sides could bridge their huge differences.

The quartet's statement was radically different from what diplomats had been hoping to draft since it became clear that Abbas would not back down. U.S. and European officials had been trying to craft a statement that would outline parameters of the negotiations, including a reference to borders being based on the 1967 lines and affirm Israel's identity as a Jewish state.

Instead, the quartet focused on proposing deadlines.

World sympathy for the Palestinian cause was evident from the thunderous applause that greeted Abbas as he mounted the dais in the General Assembly hall to deliver a speech that laid out his grievances and why he felt compelled to take his appeal to the United Nations.

In a scathing denunciation of Israel's settlement policy, Abbas declared that negotiations with Israel "will be meaningless" as long as it continues building on lands the Palestinians claim.

"This policy is responsible for the continued failure of the successive international attempts to salvage the peace process," said Abbas, who has refused to negotiate until the construction stops. "This settlement policy threatens to also undermine the structure of the Palestinian National Authority and even end its existence."

He ignored any Palestinian culpability for the negotiations stalemate, deadly violence against Israel, and the internal rift that has produced dueling governments in the West Bank and Gaza. Some members of the Israeli delegation, including Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, walked out of the hall as Abbas went to the podium.

Abbas declared himself willing to immediately return to the bargaining table, but with long-standing conditions: Israel must first stop building on lands the Palestinians claim and agree to negotiate borders based on lines it held before capturing the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem in 1967. Israel rejects those conditions and has defied international pressure to freeze settlement construction. It has staked out bargaining positions that are extremely distant from anything the Palestinians would accept.

"We extend our hands to the Israeli government and the Israeli people for peacemaking," Abbas said. "Let us build the bridges of dialogue instead of checkpoints and walls of separation, and build cooperative relations based on parity and equity between two neighboring states - Palestine and Israel - instead of policies of occupation, settlement, war and eliminating the other."

Less than an hour later, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu took to the same lectern in "a hall that for too long has been a place of darkness for my country" and said that he would not be seeking applause but rather speaking hard truths. "The truth is the Palestinians want a state without peace and you should not let that happen," he said.

Netanyahu lashed out at the United Nations, whose prior actions against Israel he described as "a theater of the absurd," and challenged a comment by Abbas that the Palestinians were armed "only with their hopes and dreams."

"Hopes, dreams - and 10,000 missiles and Grad rockets supplied by Iran," Netanyahu said. He stressed Israel's small size, saying it needed strategic depth to defend itself, particularly from the growing threat of militant Islam in the region.

Netanyahu had earlier in the week proposed that he and Abbas meet on the sidelines of the U.N. session, but senior Abbas adviser Nabeel Shaath ruled that out.

Just on those 1967 borders, who could forget Netanyahu speaking down to Obama in his rejection of the idea in the recent past:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43106082/ns/politics-white_house/t/we-cant-go-back-israeli-pm-rejects-border-proposal/

WASHINGTON — Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu bluntly told President Barack Obama on Friday his vision of how to achieve Middle East peace was unrealistic, exposing a deep divide that could doom any U.S. bid to revive peace talks.....

[Soldier of Macedon]

Palestine becomes member of UNESCO, US cuts funds

http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2011/11/01/palestine_becomes_member_of_unesco_us_cuts_funds/

PARIS—Palestine won its greatest international endorsement yet on Monday, full membership in UNESCO, but the move will cost the agency one-fifth of its funding and some fear will send Mideast peace efforts off a cliff.

In an unusually dramatic session at the Paris-based United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization, there were cheers for "yes" votes and grumbles for the "no's" and abstentions. When the results were in, many delegates jumped to their feet and applauded and someone let out a cry of "Long live Palestine!" in French.

"Joy fills my heart. This is really a historic moment," said Palestinian Foreign Minister Riad Malki. "It's the return of he who was banished."

But the jubilation was quickly pierced by reality: The United States said it wouldn't make a $60 million payment to fill out its contributions for this year and would suspend all future funding.

UNESCO depends heavily on that money -- Washington provides 22 percent of its budget -- but has survived without it in the past: The United States pulled out of UNESCO under President Ronald Reagan, rejoining two decades later under President George W. Bush.

Monday's vote was a grand symbolic victory for the Palestinians, but it alone won't make Palestine a state. The issues of borders for an eventual Palestinian state, security, a solution for Palestinian refugees, the fate of Jerusalem and other disputes that have thwarted Middle East peace for decades remain unresolved. Some argued it would even make it harder for the Palestinians to reach their goal.

White House spokesman Jay Carney called UNESCO's decision "premature" and said it undermines the international community's efforts toward a comprehensive Middle East peace plan. He called it a distraction from the goal of restarting direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.

Israeli Ambassador Nimrod Barkan said the decision did "a great disservice to international law and to chances for peace."

"UNESCO deals in science, not science fiction," he said in a speech to delegates after the vote. "However, a large number of member states, though most emphatically less than two-thirds of the member states of this organization, have adopted a science fiction version of reality."

His government said it was reconsidering its cooperation with UNESCO.

The request to grant Palestine full membership passed 107-14, with 52 abstentions. Eighty-one votes were needed for approval -- or two-thirds of the 173 eligible member delegations present. There are now 195 members in all.

In a surprise, France voted "yes" -- and the room erupted in cheers. It was joined by Ireland, Austria and the Arab states. The "no" votes included the United States, Israel, Sweden, the Netherlands and Germany, while many American allies abstained, including Japan, Britain and New Zealand.Continued...

Monday's vote is definitive, and the membership formally takes effect when Palestine signs UNESCO's founding charter.

It is part of a broader Palestinian quest for greater international recognition in hopes of moving closer to statehood through channels other than simply negotiations with Israel.

There, however, are concerns that strategy could backfire. Before the vote, Israel's outspoken foreign minister, Avigdor Lieberman, said that if the measure passed, Israel should cut off ties with the Palestinian Authority. It was not clear whether he was voicing government policy.

By contrast, Malki said he hoped the vote would only provide momentum for the Palestinians' quest for statehood. But he added that it was no substitute for the Palestinians' more high-profile request for admission to the United Nations.

The Obama administration has vowed to use its veto power in the Security Council to quash Palestinian membership in the broader U.N., but had been hoping it wouldn't come to that since wielding its veto could undermine the United States' typically pivotal role as negotiator between Israel and the Palestinians.

However, Malki, indicated Monday that he thought he had enough support to win a Security Council vote, which has not yet been scheduled.

UNESCO, like many U.N. agencies, is a part of the world body but has separate membership procedures and can make its own decisions about which countries belong. The disconnect between memberships is rare but not unprecedented. Two tiny Pacific island nations -- the Cook Islands and Niue -- are members of UNESCO but not the U.N., while Liechtenstein belongs to the larger world body but not the cultural agency.

Even if the vote's impact isn't felt right away in the Mideast, it will be quickly felt at UNESCO, which protects historic heritage sites and works to improve world literacy, access to schooling for girls and cultural understanding. One of the first concrete results of Palestine's membership could be that the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem is listed as a world heritage site; the Palestinians have already prepared an application for the traditional birthplace of Jesus.

In addition to the reduction in funding, the vote will also set back UNESCO's efforts in recent years to shed its image as an anti-Israeli agency. When the U.S. pulled out of UNESCO in the 1980s, it was to protest the passage of a resolution equating Zionism with racism.

UNESCO Director-General Irina Bokova has been at the forefront of remaking the agency's image, and she expressed concern about the vote's effect.

"It is my responsibility to say that I am concerned by the potential challenges that may arise to the universality and financial stability of the organization," Bokova said. "I am worried we may confront a situation that could erode UNESCO as a universal platform for dialogue. I am worried for the stability of its budget."

While the U.S. has cut off funding -- which typically amounts to $80 million annually -- Washington has said it will remain a member, though if it fails to pay its dues for two years, it will lose its vote.

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said it was up to member states "to ensure the United Nations system as a whole consistent political and financial support."

"As such, we will need to work on tactical solutions to preserve UNESCO's financial resources," he said, while urging a negotiated solution to Mideast peace.