Originally posted by Risto the Great
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Supporters of DUI wreck scaffolding of Kale church museum
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Our biggest mistake in 2001 was that we didnt go all the way, even if it meant that we would of been bombed by NATO and sanctions.
Atleast it would of been written in the history books that a proud nation called macedonians once lived in the Balkans and vanished in their fight for a sovereign country instead of existing as a american protectorate controlled by an albanian minority.Слава му на Бога за се
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Originally posted by Komita View PostOur biggest mistake in 2001 was that we didnt go all the way, even if it meant that we would of been bombed by NATO and sanctions.
Atleast it would of been written in the history books that a proud nation called macedonians once lived in the Balkans and vanished in their fight for a sovereign country instead of existing as a american protectorate controlled by an albanian minority.
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Originally posted by Komita View PostOur biggest mistake in 2001 was that we didnt go all the way, even if it meant that we would of been bombed by NATO and sanctions.
Atleast it would of been written in the history books that a proud nation called macedonians once lived in the Balkans and vanished in their fight for a sovereign country instead of existing as a american protectorate controlled by an albanian minority.In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Originally posted by Risto the Great View PostSo it clearly was not a war. The order NOT to shoot is evidence enough for me to distinguish this from a war.
I had a cousin who was involved in the conflict and can confirm that soldiers were told to keep their heads down and Not shoot while the Albanians were shooting at them…as if such an order wouldn’t make you bitter. What adds to the bitterness is the realisation you weren’t called upon to truly defend but to play your part as an actor in a drama and if and when the director…read politicians…wants a sacrificial lamb just to show losses were suffered on both sides you are supposed to just cop it and take one for the team…many losses were in ambushes and a lot of people believe they were staged.
Having one gun pointed at your front and one pointed at your back by your own officers and government isn’t much of a choice and a sad realisation of keep your head down or become an insignificant statistic they will be pissing on by the days end. The war was lost near the start…if not before it began…by the time nato started threatening to bomb as many as possible should have been killed off even if you had to back off in the end instead of wasting time with containment. The government mentally ambushed the army leaving them with their hands tied. What it sounds like…the army should have done this or that…is you are speaking of a coup which is easier said than done.
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Originally posted by OziMak View PostWhat it sounds like…the army should have done this or that…is you are speaking of a coup which is easier said than done.
But it would have been a better country for Macedonians as a consequence.
OM, I don't have any cousins who were involved in the "conflict" of 2001. It is difficult for me to feel particularly close to the emotions of the soldiers. However, I would like to know if you feel comfortable calling your cousin a great defender of our country. Being told to put your head down and take the shots is far from being a form of defence! To call them "braniteli" and have to hear about their heroism sounds hollow to me.
The results of the efforts or lack thereof are obvious. They were not braniteli/defenders they were victims.Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com
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Originally posted by Komita View PostOur biggest mistake in 2001 was that we didnt go all the way, even if it meant that we would of been bombed by NATO and sanctions.
Atleast it would of been written in the history books that a proud nation called macedonians once lived in the Balkans and vanished in their fight for a sovereign country instead of existing as a american protectorate controlled by an albanian minority.
My greatest regret from 2001 was the total ineptitude of our political leadership which continues to poison our nation to this day.
In 2001 the most defining moment of this ineptitude was seen in the battle for Aracinovo, I'm not a military historian by any stretch of the imagination but I doubt if there's another moment of embarrassment that would match the moment when hundreds of insurgents and their American instructors were safely escorted out of Aracinovo by the very organization that had trained them in the first place.
Possibly one of the greatest successes of Macedonian special forces operations in our history was reduced to farcical proportions when bus after bus of cowering insurgents were escorted out of Aracinovo as elderly Macedonians threw rocks at the retreating NATO convoy.
Not one 'rogue' element existed within our ranks to blow the shit out of that convoy, Americans and all...that act alone would have put Macedonia on the map, never to be removed...
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Originally posted by Phoenix View PostI agree almost 100%...the only point of difference is that I don't believe any foreign power can wipe us off the face of the map, only our politicians are capable of that.
My greatest regret from 2001 was the total ineptitude of our political leadership which continues to poison our nation to this day.
In 2001 the most defining moment of this ineptitude was seen in the battle for Aracinovo, I'm not a military historian by any stretch of the imagination but I doubt if there's another moment of embarrassment that would match the moment when hundreds of insurgents and their American instructors were safely escorted out of Aracinovo by the very organization that had trained them in the first place.
Possibly one of the greatest successes of Macedonian special forces operations in our history was reduced to farcical proportions when bus after bus of cowering insurgents were escorted out of Aracinovo as elderly Macedonians threw rocks at the retreating NATO convoy.
Not one 'rogue' element existed within our ranks to blow the shit out of that convoy, Americans and all...that act alone would have put Macedonia on the map, never to be removed...
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Originally posted by Blagojce View PostAs i understand it, the 'rouge' soldiers were moved far from that area before the jackals were removed from their positions.
Unfortunately Trajkovski didn't posses the political will to make the most of the situation that Macedonia's elite forces had achieved against all odds...it was a defining moment, the fabled, 'fork in the road' that could have put Macedonia on a totally different path, hopefully one away from total subservience to outsiders and to an enemy within...
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Unfortunately Trajkovski didn't posses the political will to make the most of the situation that Macedonia's elite forces had achieved against all odds...it was a defining moment, the fabled, 'fork in the road' that could have put Macedonia on a totally different path, hopefully one away from total subservience to outsiders and to an enemy within...
If we did not win that battle (and we did) fighting would have broke out in Skopje and out all civil war follow (Ljupco's grand plan to come to fruition)
I hope some members here remember what the Braniteli did, before even stripping them of that title..Makedonija vo Srce
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Originally posted by OziMak View PostSwiftness and all-out is what was lacking. The pace was dictated by the government pushing for containment instead of extermination. The war…I fully agree RTG it was Not a war…was a drama show to show the people and the world something is being done while in reality nothing was being done but waiting for the show to end sign the documents and move on to the after party for drinks and finger food.
I had a cousin who was involved in the conflict and can confirm that soldiers were told to keep their heads down and Not shoot while the Albanians were shooting at them…as if such an order wouldn’t make you bitter. What adds to the bitterness is the realisation you weren’t called upon to truly defend but to play your part as an actor in a drama and if and when the director…read politicians…wants a sacrificial lamb just to show losses were suffered on both sides you are supposed to just cop it and take one for the team…many losses were in ambushes and a lot of people believe they were staged.
Having one gun pointed at your front and one pointed at your back by your own officers and government isn’t much of a choice and a sad realisation of keep your head down or become an insignificant statistic they will be pissing on by the days end. The war was lost near the start…if not before it began…by the time nato started threatening to bomb as many as possible should have been killed off even if you had to back off in the end instead of wasting time with containment. The government mentally ambushed the army leaving them with their hands tied. What it sounds like…the army should have done this or that…is you are speaking of a coup which is easier said than done.
OM, what is happening to you, did someone spike your drink with some "sanity pill"? You seem to be making a lot of sense here lately and I am not sure if it is one and the same poster using your login.
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Originally posted by indigen View PostIt could have been and should have been but now we have a Ramkovist "reality".
OM, what is happening to you, did someone spike your drink with some "sanity pill"? You seem to be making a lot of sense here lately and I am not sure if it is one and the same poster using your login.If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams
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Originally posted by Risto the Great View PostI would like to know if you feel comfortable calling your cousin a great defender of our country. Being told to put your head down and take the shots is far from being a form of defence! To call them "braniteli" and have to hear about their heroism sounds hollow to me.
The results of the efforts or lack thereof are obvious. They were not braniteli/defenders they were victims.
Initially he saw himself as one of the braniteli but later when he was ordered to stop shooting while still being shot at was an extremely demoralizing moment for him and I would imagine many others…its like you said feeling more of a victim realizing his government that sent him into it had left him out to dry. It pissed him off no end but once you are there too late.
I think all who served are braniteli…no one went running to the back…but became victims by the politics and the government at the time. I wouldn’t disparage the name of anyone who served for their service at the time but for IF true anyone involved in staging some of the ambushes the Macedonian troops suffered.
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Originally posted by indigen View PostOM, what is happening to you, did someone spike your drink with some "sanity pill"?
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