International Court of Justice - Macedonia and Greece

[Soldier of Macedon]

I don't care.

Yes, well I don't really care if you care or not, I was just asking a question. The matter of human rights is of utmost importance, but deliberately ignoring historical issues (like you seem to be suggesting) doesn't do us any good. By the way, a Macedonian is a Macedonian, that is the way it needs to be presented, and not with an overemphasis on yet another prefix like 'ethnic' - which should only be used in a limited and specific context.

[Big Bad Sven]

Because that is what it is know as among journalists. There are many Macedonia's Greek, Bulgarian, Albanian, Republic, San Stefano.

We have to communicate with journalists and politicians. We have to choose our fight. For example it is only now after 20 years have we gotten "some" journalists to talk about "ethnic" rather than "slav" Macedonians!

Personally i dont like the term "geographic macedonia" i prefer to use simply united macedonia, or perhaps True macedonia. Why do you even bring up "San Stefano Macedonia"? Perhaps we can say there is a Vardaska Banovina Macedonia and a Ottoman macedonia?
There has only been one and still is, one macedonia, the "other macedonia's" are just occupied by our racist neighbors and use their monopolization of their "macedonian provinces" to push their anti-macedonian agendas towards the republic of macedonia and also the macedonian minorities inside those occupied lands.

Saying that there are "other macedonians" is giving legitimacy to sorry bastards like the grkomans who walk around claiming to be "greek-macedonians" from "Greek Macedonia"...


And why is it a "shame" or a "taboo" point to talk about the ancient macedonians and by the sounds of things you seem like you are willing to let the greeks continue to monopolize the ancient macedonians. Dont you think allowing the greeks to continue to monopolize the ancient macedonians and your suggestion of us "walking away" and concentrating on our more modern achievements by modern macedonians and forgetting about the ancient macedonians, doesnt that strengthen greeces claims on the macedonian issue and doesnt that make our claim look stupid?

[Voltron]

And why is it a "shame" or a "taboo" point to talk about the ancient macedonians and by the sounds of things you seem like you are willing to let the greeks continue to monopolize the ancient macedonians. Dont you think allowing the greeks to continue to monopolize the ancient macedonians and your suggestion of us "walking away" and concentrating on our more modern achievements by modern macedonians and forgetting about the ancient macedonians, doesnt that strengthen greeces claims on the macedonian issue and doesnt that make our claim look stupid?

A lot of times I think to myself if we Greeks never brought up the issue of Antiquity would it have ever been pursued by your side. So in order to countercheck our claims the position becomes that you are actually descendents from Ancient Macedonians and that the Macedonians of anitquity were not Greek. Let me ask you something, if by chance in the future their is undisputable proof that Ancient Macedonians were indeed of Greek stock what would happen ? Do you have a contingency plan for this ? Or would it be just flat out denial even in the face of the obvious ?

[George S.]

The modern greek has nothing to do with the ancient greeks or the ancient macedonians.
If one asks Both greek & macedonians were not the same races.So today who has preserved their name & people that's the macedonians.The greeks since 1913 are simply ursurpers of anything macedonian.Simply to try & justify their land grab.
DE welcome aboard.Thanks for answering our question.Where are you from??

[Daskalot]

A lot of times I think to myself if we Greeks never brought up the issue of Antiquity would it have ever been pursued by your side. So in order to countercheck our claims the position becomes that you are actually descendents from Ancient Macedonians and that the Macedonians of anitquity were not Greek. Let me ask you something, if by chance in the future their is undisputable proof that Ancient Macedonians were indeed of Greek stock what would happen ? Do you have a contingency plan for this ? Or would it be just flat out denial even in the face of the obvious ?

Voltron please define Greek.

[George S.]

Voltron the modern greek is a creation of the 1900 century by the western powers.Most of your presidents were albanian.THere are a lot of examples of how the greek govt tried to change the ethnic composition deliberately to greek .But when one examines who those greek people are they aren't even greek.They are any number of different people except greek.If the agean area belonged to greece why did it wait till 1913 to take the land away from the macedonian people by force.Was it all greek or was it partially greek??Coincidentally 4 other countries thought the same as they divided macedonia up.
So voltron stop living in cuckoo land & start admitting some home truths.

[Niko777]

Good article from Deutche Welle, full of reasons why Macedonia should withdraw from the I.A.

[Soldier of Macedon]

A lot of times I think to myself if we Greeks never brought up the issue of Antiquity would it have ever been pursued by your side.

You obviously don't think too much. Macedonians have claimed ancient Macedonian heritage well before you people decided to use it as a ploy against them.

Let me ask you something, if by chance in the future their is undisputable proof that Ancient Macedonians were indeed of Greek stock what would happen ? Do you have a contingency plan for this ? Or would it be just flat out denial even in the face of the obvious ?

There is no chance of that happening.

[Vangelovski]

Ivanov is demanding the UN Security Council "respect" the ICJ's ruling and the Interim Accord:

http://www.sitel.com.mk/dnevnik/makedonija/ivanov-pobara-od-ambasadorite-pochituvanje-na-vremenata-spogodba

Is this some sort of bizarro world?

[Pelister]

Among our people, the politically correct term is just plain Macedonians. I can understand using "ethnic Macedonians" when talking about Macedonians in Greece (no one talks about "ethnic Serbs) ... but for now I still use "ethnic" even in the Republic because I want to educate Journalists to stop using "slav".

I am glad you do this. Journalists use the term 'Slav' because this is the language of conquest, in the West the discourse on all things 'Macedonian' is completely saturated by the language of the supplanting regimes and they all work together to denigrate, demean and deny us. Slav is simply another term that achieves it. The term represents the antithesis of a distinctive Macedonian nationality, language and culture. Most journalists are not 'up to speed' on such detail, I think. I think that the use of the term ethnic, in this regard, is spot on.

[Pelister]

Ivanov is demanding the UN Security Council "respect" the ICJ's ruling and the Interim Accord:

http://www.sitel.com.mk/dnevnik/makedonija/ivanov-pobara-od-ambasadorite-pochituvanje-na-vremenata-spogodba

Is this some sort of bizarro world?

I am baffled by the whole thing. Why 'applaud' a decision that reinforces a ridiculous and insulting, foriegn acronym? Why even accept the acronym as 'acceptable' in the first place? I am convinced that the Macedonians were never formally blocked at the U.N, according to Professor Janev, so which Macedonian politicians created the 'negotiations'? All it means is that the Macedonian politicians are ultimately intending to change the name. If they accept our admission to these organisation under the stupid acronym FYROM, then full, fair and equal admission will ultimately depend on a 'settlement' between Macedonia and Greece. What this means is that the Macedonian politicians intend to continue 'negotiating' and intend to change the name. The 'negotiations', how they were created, who created them and why politicians continue to push the process flies in the face of all sense, all logic and all rationality. Reason has been thrown out the window, as has all principles relating to rights, to self preservation, as has all of the important contextual history. We are being betrayed by Gruevski and other Macedonian politicians, I have no doubt in my mind about it.

[Niko777]

We always blamed Gligorov for signing the agreement, but this government is just as bad

[Risto the Great]

We always blamed Gligorov for signing the agreement, but this government is just as bad

It could be argued the current government is worse.They have been under LESS pressure than Gligorov and yet they persist with meeting each and every obligation of the IA. Even extending their actions to honour the very spirit of the agreement. As evidenced by Warrior on Horse, reduced rays on Suns and other idiotic examples that are plain for all to see.

[George S.]

what are they trying to prove that the macedonian govt is silier than the other & the level of depth it is prepared to sink to please the other.If stupidity was a reward in itself then i hate to be on the receiving end as it simply encourages nacisizim especially in the greek side.It exists because we allow it to happen.

[Phoenix]

And what is that Daskalot ? Recognising minority groups ? Is that what your still hung up about ? As if that ever helped any country in our region. Just added more problems. Besides, we all have our countries to go to if we dont like it. It could be worse, we could be Kurds.

Voltron, don't shed crocodile tears for the hapless Kurds, they'll do fine...so long as the modern greeks never invade their lands and steal their identity they will remain Kurds for eternity.