Financial Crisis in Greece

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  • fyrOM
    Banned
    • Feb 2010
    • 2180

    Go Greeks. Give the idiots Greek style. Maybe the tzaziki will grow brains.

    Everyone in the eu keep up the pressure on your governments.

    Fiscal crises threaten Europe's generous benefits



    Michael Weissenstein, Associated Press Writer, On Sunday May 23, 2010, 4:55 pm EDT

    LONDON (AP) -- Six weeks of vacation a year. Retirement at 60. Thousands of euros for having a baby. A good university education for less than the cost of a laptop.

    The system known as the European welfare state was built after World War II as the keystone of a shared prosperity meant to prevent future conflict. Generous lifelong benefits have since become a defining feature of modern Europe.

    Now the welfare state -- cherished by many Europeans as an alternative to what they see as dog-eat-dog American capitalism -- is coming under its most serious threat in decades: Europe's sovereign debt crisis.

    Deep budget cuts are under way across Europe. Although the first round is focused mostly on government payrolls -- the least politically explosive target -- welfare benefits are looking increasingly vulnerable.

    "The current welfare state is unaffordable," said Uri Dadush, director of the Carnegie Endowment's International Economics Program. "The crisis has made the day of reckoning closer by several years in virtually all the industrial countries."

    Germany will decide next month just how to cut at least 3 billion euros ($3.75 billion) from the budget. The government is suggesting for the first time that it could make fresh cuts to unemployment benefits that include giving Germans under 50 about 60 percent of their last salary before taxes for up to a year. That benefit itself emerged after cuts to an even more generous package about five years ago.

    "We have to adjust our social security systems in a way that they motivate people to accept regular work and do not give counterproductive incentives," German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble told news weekly Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung on Saturday.

    The uncertainty over the future of the welfare state is undermining the continent's self-image at a time when other key elements of post-war European identity are fraying.

    Large-scale immigration from outside Europe is challenging the continent's assumptions about its dedication to tolerance and liberty as countries move to control individual clothing -- the Islamic veil -- in the name of freedom and equality.

    Deeply wary of military conflict, many nations now find themselves nonetheless mired in Afghanistan on behalf of what was supposed to be a North Atlantic alliance, shying away from wholesale pullout while doing their utmost to keep troops from actual combat.

    Demographers and economists began warning decades ago that social welfare was doomed by the aging of Europe's baby boomers. Some governments had been trimming and reforming, but now almost all are scrambling to close deficits in order to prevent a wider collapse of confidence in the euro.

    "We need to change, to adapt ... for the sake of the protection of our social model," European Union Commissioner Joaquin Almunia of Spain told reporters in Stockholm Thursday.

    The move is risky: experts warn the cuts could undermine the growth needed to pull budgets back on a sustainable path.

    On Monday, Britain unveils 6 billion pounds ($8.6 billion) in cuts -- mostly to government payrolls and expenses. The government has promised to raise the age at which citizens receive a state pension -- up from 60 to 65 for women, and from 65 to 66 for men. It also plans to toughen the welfare regime, requiring the unemployed to try to find jobs in order to collect benefits.

    Britain says it will limit child tax credits and scrap a 250-pound ($360) payment to the families of every newborn. Ministers are reviewing the long-term affordability of the country's generous public sector pensions.

    Funding for Britain's nationalized health care service will be protected under the new government, however, and should rise each year to 2015.

    France's conservative government is focusing on raising the retirement age. Many workers can now retire at 60 with 50 percent of their average salary. Extra funds are available for retired civil servants, those with three or more children, military veterans and others.

    A parliamentary debate is planned for September. Unions in France are organizing a national day of protest marches and strikes on Thursday to demand protection of wages and the retirement age.

    In Spain, billions in cuts to state salaries go into effect next month, and the Socialist government has frozen increases in pensions meant to compensate for inflation for at least two years.

    "They've hit us really hard," said Federico Carbonero, 92, a retired soldier. He said he was unlikely to live long enough to see the worst of the pension freeze, but had no doubts he would have to start relying on savings to maintain his lifestyle.

    Spain is cutting assistance payments for disabled people by 300 million euros ($375 million) and did away with a three-year-old bonus of 2,500 euros ($3,124.25) per new baby. It also has proposed hiking the retirement age for men from 65 to 67.

    Countries in northern Europe have done a far better of reforming social welfare and have unemployment systems that focus on re-employing people instead of making their unemployment comfortable, said Gayle Allard, a professor of economic environment and country analysis at the Instituto de Empresa in Madrid.

    Denmark and other Nordic countries are known for the world's highest taxes and most generous cradle-to-grave benefits. Denmark has implemented a system known broadly as "flexicurity," which combines flexibility for employers to hire and fire workers with financial security and training to prepare for new jobs.

    Denmark had a 7.5 percent unemployment rate in the first quarter of this year, well below the EU average of 9.6 percent. Swedish and Finnish unemployment stood at 8.9 percent. Norway, with some of the world's most generous unemployment benefits fully funded by oil for the forseeable future, has Europe's lowest jobless rate, just 3 percent in April.

    Southern European countries that have not moved toward reforming welfare in the same ways are paying a steep price.

    After sharp cutbacks imposed as the condition of an international bailout this month, Greeks must now contribute to pension funds for 40 instead of 37 years before retiring, and the age of early retirement is set to 60 at the earliest.

    Civil servants with monthly salaries of above 3,000 euros ($3,750) will lose two extra months of salary -- one paid at Christmas, the other split between Easter and summer vacation.

    In Portugal, seen as another potential candidate for bailout, the government is focusing on hikes in income, corporate and sales taxes and has avoided drastic changes to welfare entitlements. Unemployment benefits will be cut somewhat and the out-of-work will have to accept any job paying more than 10 percent more than what they would receive in unemployment benefits.

    The government is also stepping up checks on welfare claims, freezing public sector pay and slicing public investment.

    "There's been a lack of willingness to shift away from welfare as purely social protection towards an approach which has been in much of northern Europe in recent years, which is welfare as social investment," said Iain Begg, a professor at the London School of Economics and Political Science's European Institute.

    Otto Fricke, a budget expert for the Free Democrats, the coalition partner of German Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democratic Union, told The Associated Press that no decisions on cuts have been made, but everything is on the table except education, pension funds and financial aid to developing countries. At least one high-ranking CDU member has called for the idea of protecting education to be re-examined, however.

    German public education, which was virtually free until 2005, when some of Germany's 16 states started charging tuition fees of 1000 euros ($1,250) a year.

    Virtually all Germany's students pay that much or less to attend state-funded universities, including elite institutions. Education isn't as cheap elsewhere in Europe but the 3,290 pounds ($4,720) per year paid by British students at Cambridge is still far less than Americans pay at comparable schools like Harvard, where annual tuition comes in just shy of $35,000.

    The idea of cutting education is proving hard to swallow in the face of Germany's promise to contribute up to 147.6 billion euros ($184.5 billion) in loan guarantees to protect Greece and other countries that use the euro from bankruptcy.

    "I am worried that this crisis will also affect me on a personal level, for example, that universities in Germany will raise the tuition in order to pay the loan they give to Greece," said Karoline Daederich, a 22-year-old university student from Berlin.

    Associated Press writers Juergen Baetz and Kirsten Grieshaber in Berlin, Malin Rising and Karl Ritter in Stockholm, David Stringer in London, Veronika Oleksyn in Vienna, Harold Heckle in Madrid, Elaine Ganley in Paris, Elena Becatoros in Athens and Barry Hatton in Lisbon contributed to this report.

    Comment

    • Onur
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2010
      • 2389

      Daniel Cohn-Bandit criticizing EU hypocrisy vs Greece. He shows documents of France sold 3 billion and Germany 1 billion EU worth of military equipment to Greece at recent month.

      He shows the documents at 4:40min;

      YouTube - Daniel Cohn-Bendit (english subtitles) about Greece's financial woes

      Comment

      • makedonche
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2008
        • 3242

        Onur

        Thanks for the video, interesting stuff! I still got the impression that he is doing Greece's bidding, asking for more help, more time, be fair - I don't subscribe to these views, I accept your point about hypocrisy and lending the Greeks money to pay for military acquisitions, this is ludicrous at best! What are your thoughts on his comments about Cyprus and disarming Greece and Turkey?
        On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

        Comment

        • Prolet
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2009
          • 5241

          Daneil Cohn Bendit was in Skopje not so long ago, he is right with his comments.

          How does Greece have a professional army with 100,000 soldiers? Germany is 83 million and has 200,000 soldiers. Australia is 20 million and has 50,000 soldiers.
          МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

          Comment

          • Makedonetz
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2010
            • 1080

            very obsured indeed makes you think
            Makedoncite se borat
            za svoite pravdini!

            "The one who works for joining of Macedonia to Bulgaria,Greece or Serbia can consider himself as a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a good Macedonian"
            - Goce Delchev

            Comment

            • Onur
              Senior Member
              • Apr 2010
              • 2389

              Originally posted by makedonche View Post
              What are your thoughts on his comments about Cyprus and disarming Greece and Turkey?

              As long as EU supports the Junta regime product of fake Greek Cyprus, situation wont change in there because as long as EU pats the head of Greeks, they will continue to deny Turkish existence in Cyprus and they will never feel necessity to settle an agreement with us.

              Also, EU is not in a position to interfere our decisions of military expenses. Already Turkey manufactures most of its own equipments together with Israel, including jets and spy planes without human pilots. We spend only %1 of our GDP to our army but Greece spends more than %3 and we don't spend money to our military vs Greece. We have much more important issues to deal with in our border with middle-eastern countries. Turkey doesn't even care what Greece does for a long time and most of military experts even says that military checkpoints at Greece border is not even necessary and they should be removed soon.





              Originally posted by Prolet View Post
              How does Greece have a professional army with 100,000 soldiers? Germany is 83 million and has 200,000 soldiers. Australia is 20 million and has 50,000 soldiers.

              This means like one of every five men is a soldier in Greece. ROFL

              Sad thing is, this also means one of every five men getting racist education and learning hatred towards all of their neighbors.

              In Turkey, we have around 400.000 soldiers with 73 million population but you know, our geographical position is much more critical than Greece. I think they are using army to brainwash Greek men and keep hatred alive vs Turkey, Macedonia, Albania because 100.000 soldier for 10 million people is ridicules.
              Last edited by Onur; 05-29-2010, 08:48 AM.

              Comment

              • Prolet
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2009
                • 5241

                I can understand why Turkey has twise the amount of soldiers to Germany because Germany is surrounded with EU and Nato countries friendly allies while Turkey borders with Iran,Syria,Armenia,Georgia and Iraq they are hardly friendly countries afterall.
                МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                Comment

                • Bill77
                  Senior Member
                  • Oct 2009
                  • 4545

                  Le Figaro: Merkel frustrated with Sarkozy over Greece

                  Parisian paper Le Figaro reported this weekend that German - Franco relations continue to move downhill after Germany's Economic and financial advisers stated to Chancellor Angela Merkel that Paris initiated the Greek Bailout for private purposes only.

                  Sarkozy was especially vocal during the process to 'help Greece', when in fact Le Figaro goes on to claim that Sarkozy was bailing out top French Banks who hold staggering 51 Billion Euros in worthless Greek bonds.

                  MINA reported two weeks ago that the EU was bailing out mostly French and other EU Banks in Greece, and not Greece itself. Second thing France is afraid of, according to Le Figaro, by Greece losing their Banks' credit rating, it may create a domino effect and pull French Banks down as well.

                  Sarkozy and Merkel have scheduled a meeting as part of the G8 on June 7th to discuss the situation.

                  http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

                  Comment

                  • Mikail
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 1338

                    That is very interesting Bill77. I wonder what the outcome would be? No doubt Germany will seek certain assurances and guarantees from France.
                    From the village of P’pezhani, Tashko Popov, Dimitar Popov-Skenderov and Todor Trpenov were beaten and sentenced to 12 years prison. Pavle Mevchev and Atanas Popov from Vrbeni and Boreshnica joined them in early 1927, they were soon after transferred to Kozhani and executed. As they were leaving Lerin they were heard to shout "With our death, Macedonia will not be lost. Our blood will run, but other Macedonians will rise from it"

                    Comment

                    • Bill77
                      Senior Member
                      • Oct 2009
                      • 4545

                      Originally posted by Mikail View Post
                      That is very interesting Bill77. I wonder what the outcome would be? No doubt Germany will seek certain assurances and guarantees from France.
                      Let them argue amongst each other over Greece. Na kje se kolat.

                      What i find interesting is that after all this, its possible Sarkozy was only interested in its own Banks and not the Greek nation it self.

                      Sarkozy is always vocal when it came to defend Greece.
                      http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

                      Comment

                      • Mikail
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 1338

                        Yes, and now it has been released that he was not, nor is not, interested in defending nor saving Greece! It's his own political scalp he is trying to save!
                        From the village of P’pezhani, Tashko Popov, Dimitar Popov-Skenderov and Todor Trpenov were beaten and sentenced to 12 years prison. Pavle Mevchev and Atanas Popov from Vrbeni and Boreshnica joined them in early 1927, they were soon after transferred to Kozhani and executed. As they were leaving Lerin they were heard to shout "With our death, Macedonia will not be lost. Our blood will run, but other Macedonians will rise from it"

                        Comment

                        • johnMKD
                          Member
                          • Apr 2010
                          • 364

                          Originally posted by Onur View Post
                          As long as EU supports the Junta regime product of fake Greek Cyprus, situation wont change in there because as long as EU pats the head of Greeks, they will continue to deny Turkish existence in Cyprus and they will never feel necessity to settle an agreement with us.

                          Also, EU is not in a position to interfere our decisions of military expenses. Already Turkey manufactures most of its own equipments together with Israel, including jets and spy planes without human pilots. We spend only %1 of our GDP to our army but Greece spends more than %3 and we don't spend money to our military vs Greece. We have much more important issues to deal with in our border with middle-eastern countries. Turkey doesn't even care what Greece does for a long time and most of military experts even says that military checkpoints at Greece border is not even necessary and they should be removed soon.

                          This means like one of every five men is a soldier in Greece. ROFL

                          How did you get this Onur? As far as I recall me serving for the army in the Turkish border the numbers were overwhelmingly different. We were 7-10 people and on the Turkish side there were more than 200. And I've confirmed this in many cases. I can also confirm that the condition over there was very relaxing and I remember also talking with Turkish soldiers many times about how stupid we both felt being there. It would be indeed a very good thing to do, to remove the military from the border, both Turkey and Greece.
                          Last edited by johnMKD; 05-31-2010, 07:57 AM.
                          Macedonian and proud!

                          Comment

                          • Onur
                            Senior Member
                            • Apr 2010
                            • 2389

                            Originally posted by johnMKD View Post
                            How did you get this Onur? As far as I recall me serving for the army in the Turkish border the numbers were overwhelmingly different. We were 7-10 people and on the Turkish side there were more than 200. And I've confirmed this in many cases. I can also confirm that the condition over there was very relaxing and I remember also talking with Turkish soldiers many times about how stupid we both felt being there. It would be indeed a very good thing to do, to remove the military from the border, both Turkey and Greece.


                            Its normal for Turkey to have more soldiers than Greece at Thrace since we got 400.000 soldiers and like %80 of them settled close to our borders.

                            For a long time, military experts and strategists in Turkey talking about removing the military checkpoints and bases close to the Greek border and transfer the staff to our Iraq border instead. We traditionally got military bases for 100 years there but it`s recently a common belief that Greece cannot pose any threat to us and keeping soldiers in Thrace is completely unnecessary.

                            Comment

                            • Bill77
                              Senior Member
                              • Oct 2009
                              • 4545

                              Originally posted by Mikail View Post
                              Yes, and now it has been released that he was not, nor is not, interested in defending nor saving Greece! It's his own political scalp he is trying to save!
                              Well he is in big trouble if this is to eventuate. He can say au revoir to his Banks interests, to the bail out money, the euro currency, his reputation, then his scalp.


                              Greece urged to give up Euro, a slap to Sarkozy...

                              Monday, 31 May 2010

                              THE Greek government has been advised by British economists to leave the euro and default on its €300+ billion debt to save its economy.

                              The Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR), a London-based consultancy, has warned Greek ministers they will be unable to escape their debt trap without devaluing their own currency to boost exports. The only way this can happen is if Greece returns to its own currency.




                              Greek politicians have played down the prospect of abandoning the euro, which could lead to the break-up of the single currency.

                              Speaking from Athens yesterday, Doug McWilliams, chief executive of the CEBR, said: “Leaving the euro would mean the new currency will fall by a minimum of 15%. But as the national debt is valued in euros, this would raise the debt from its current level of 120% of GDP to at least 140% overnight.
                              “So part of the package of leaving the euro must be to convert the debt into the new domestic currency unilaterally.”

                              Greece’s departure from the euro would prove disastrous for German and French banks, to which it owes billions of euros. It made sense, for (particularly) France and Germany to be the most vocal of all for the bailout.

                              McWilliams called the move “virtually inevitable” and said other members may follow.

                              “The only question is the timing,” he said. “The other issue is the extent of contagion. Spain would probably be forced to follow suit, and probably Portugal and Italy, though the Italian debt position is less serious.

                              “Could this be the last weekend of the single currency? Quite possibly, yes.” Go Greece, the destroyer of the Euro!


                              http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

                              Comment

                              • fyrOM
                                Banned
                                • Feb 2010
                                • 2180

                                Good news Bill77. Go Greeks drag them all down.

                                Comment

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