Nikola Gruevski

[Prolet]

Well obviously SOM, if you or I decide to sell out we'd be traitors too this goes for everybody not just Gruevski.

If Gruevski sells us out, he would be digging his own grave and he would have wasted years and years of hard work. I already gave the example of Ljube and Ljubco he will follow in their footsteps and im not sure if he wants to do that.

Risto, He's had more then enough time to sell us out and so far he hasnt, some people are skeptical but obviously we cant judge somebody who hasnt done anything yet. Lets look at the positives here, our police special forces are doing a fine job in Skopska Crna Gora intercepting a large amount of weapons and ammunition, they've just taken out a few terrorists, CNN is in Stari Kraj promoting our country we've never had this much exposure before ever. Now i completely agree with some of the criticisms here but when you criticize you also have to complement aswell where are the compliments? Its got to be black and white you cant have it be black all the time.

[Risto the Great]

Prolet, the things you say we should be proud of are merely things that functioning nations should be able to do. They are not doing it well enough because the border to Kosovo is far too porous.

Every opportunity Gruevski has had to make an appropriate Macedonian appeal for justice has been turned into some ridiculous rant about shared histories, compromises etc etc.

Enough from this fool. He has had his chance many times.

[Prolet]

Risto, I understand your frustration dont think that i dont agree with what you are saying but i do recall you once saying that Nikola Gruevski is the best leader we've ever had, maybe you were right in saying that but there is always room for skepticism here and after the blunders we've seen in the past years anything is possible.

Prolet, the things you say we should be proud of are merely things that functioning nations should be able to do.

This is totally right and this is why its so unfair for us but thats reality and we cant do anything about it. I raised the point in another thread and i will ask you this, what do you think would happen if in Australia there was a mass shoot out with the police and show photos of that Van Riddled with bullets and after that show all the weapons and explosives they captured on Television how do you think the people would react here? They will probably be scared to walk out on the street. Image how our citizens feel especially in Skopje where the Skopska Crna Gora Region is about 5-10 km away its not a good feeling is it? Especially those who have children.

[Risto the Great]

what do you think would happen if in Australia there was a mass shoot out with the police and show photos of that Van Riddled with bullets and after that show all the weapons and explosives they captured on Television how do you think the people would react here? They will probably be scared to walk out on the street. Image how our citizens feel especially in Skopje where the Skopska Crna Gora Region is about 5-10 km away its not a good feeling is it? Especially those who have children.

I would be fearing for my family Prolet.
It would be a golden opportunity for the Government to tighten up its terrorist tracking abilities and to implement draconian USA style anti-terrorist legislation. But it cannot do this because of the Framework Agreement and all that came with it.

Where are the Macedonians who are protesting for their safety?

[Vangelovski]

Time will soon tell guys, but if he sells out, he will be forever known as one of Macedonia's biggest traitors, and certainly the biggest traitor to all Macedonians in the 21st century.

SoM,

You have to realise that its not a matter of IF Gruevski will sell us out - its a matter of Gruevski ALREADY having sold us out - he has accepted the Interim Accord, Framework Agreement and the agreement with Bulgaria as legitimate. A name change would be relatively symbolic in COMPARISON to the selling out he has already done through the acceptance of the above mentioned agreements (and the subsequent deconstruction of our state and freedoms) and the legitimisation of extremists/terrorists by allowing them to stand for political office (and forming political coalitions with them) rather than arresting them and trying them for terrorism and war crimes.

[Jankovska]

Prolet you either want me to declare I am stupid publicly on a forum or you can't see past the money you get paid to suck up to Gruevski.

Let me break it down for you. what has Gruevski done for the country and people

1) Taxes have gone up like mad
2) Medicine he promised but vanished from all apteki
3) Zdrastvo is at it's lowest EVER
4) Bulgarians publicly denying Macedonians living in Bulgaria and him saying NOTHING
5) No replies to the GREEKS whatsoever for any ANY provocation EVER
6) Crazy penalty fees for stupid things to bring him more money into the budget that him and his mates can piss about with- se na smetka na siromasniot narod
7) Making deals and bending over EVERY time the Albanians want something, from refusing to study our language to shooting at police
8) Gruevski wastes so much time to STAGE great work like arresting only SDSM carinari and policajci and speditori but at the same time allowing his party members to do the same
9) Carrying on with negotiating out name even after Greece Veto in NATO
10) Every time he has been asked he talks about a compromise. Do you believe in a compromise about our name? Defending his policy means you do
You explain to me all this and the positives here and I will believe you. If you want me to be blind than najdi si druga ovca za strizenje.

[Soldier of Macedon]

SoM,

You have to realise that its not a matter of IF Gruevski will sell us out - its a matter of Gruevski ALREADY having sold us out - he has accepted the Interim Accord, Framework Agreement and the agreement with Bulgaria as legitimate.

I agree that this is a form of betrayal on its own, I won't defend him for not ridding Macedonia of these shameful arrangements forced upon her, and no longer can the defence be made that he was not a signatory to them, as Jankovska stated:

Carrying on with negotiating out name even after Greece Veto in NATO

That was his opportunity. He wasted it. The only thing he can do to save face now is to action what is required, immediately.

.........the legitimisation of extremists/terrorists by allowing them to stand for political office (and forming political coalitions with them) rather than arresting them and trying them for terrorism and war crimes.

Good point, and again, no argument.

Unfortunately, he is the 'lesser' evil at the moment when ranged against seasoned traitors like Branko. Is there anybody else that can stand up and take the top job in Macedonia? What is your opinion of Ivanov, same?

[Jankovska]

You are so right about him being the lesser evil and it makes me sad to see that we have no choice. I just soon a Goce or Jane will come to the scene

[Bill77]

Has anyone seen this clip?

http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2010/ilist/

Those young girls seem to have it right evan though they are strugling to speak English.
Gruevski's efort is much better aswell.

[indigen]

Skopje, Macedonia (CNN) -- Macedonia's prime minister has said the country is seeking a compromise with Greece over the long-standing name dispute between both countries.

In an interview with CNN, Nikola Gruevski said he was trying to reach a solution with Greece over the issue so his country could gain membership into the European Union.

IME, it seems clear they (Gruevski & Co) are willing to accept a name change (e.g. "Northern" Prefix) for international use without changing the Constitution and allowing for domestic use of the name "Republika Makedonija" and this is why the "Constitutional Name" terminology is widely propagated since Gligorov and his SDSM cronies sold us out in 1993. Greece is quite willing to accept the use of the "Constitutional Name" for domestic consumption and the only contentious point for Grujo and Co is the designation for Macedonian identity for international use. We saw where Frchko and Co want to go with our identity and Grujo at present is not ready to go that far.

He told CNN: "We said to Greece, 'We want to make a compromise. We want to find solutions,' so we can become a member of NATO and the EU. Compromise means both sides make moves, not just one side to make concessions and the other side to have a victory."

He is saying we will accept a name change but we want to keep our identity, which is an OXYMORON because a change of name for the state will automatically change our identity.

Macedonia has been at loggerheads over its name for 17 years with Greece, which blocked its entry to NATO in 2008 over the dispute.

This is self-inflicted (to the extent that we have been unable to break the chains of servitude imposed on Macedonians via the tools of oppression inherent in the instruments of state institutions and media monopoly that have always been under VASSAL control subservient to foreign interests!) because we have allowed VASSALS serving non-Macedonian interests to lead the country and to consistently betray our Macedonian national interests.

Greece claims that the name "Macedonia" implies territorial ambitions on the Greek province of the same name. Macedonia denies it. The two countries have taken their dispute to the International Court of Justice.

Here was another good chance lost to clear up this old misconception about the MYTHICAL "Greek Province of Macedonia"!

CNN: What would it mean for Macedonia to be part of the European Union and NATO?

NG: Politically, for us, it's very important to be a member of the EU and NATO. More than 90 percent of the citizens would like to see Macedonia in NATO and the EU.

In the meantime we're trying to work with Greece to find some solution for the problem.

He did not answer the question and only lamely says that 90% of Macedonians want to join these flawed anti-Macedonian institutions. And he also does not mention that the vast majority of Macedonians would not like to join at the expense of name change and losing their identity in the process!

CNN: What exactly is Greece saying?

NG: Greece wants our name to be changed, the new name to be given by them. They have a few names that they prefer, and they're asking us to accept these names.

And Gruevski is offering a compromise and GIVING VALIDITY to these CRIMINAL NEGOTIATIONS when he should be saying that it is OUTRAGEOUS to be asking Macedonia to sell-out its sovereignty (or what little is left of it!).

CNN: And one of them is Northern Macedonia?

NG: Yes. And a second thing, which is very unreasonable, they want to change the identity of the citizens. That's very difficult to explain, but they want the government to accept and to explain to the citizens, that our language and nationality, in the future will not be Macedonian, but will be something else.

As above, Gruevski and Co will accept the name for international use but at present they don't want to change our identity, which Greece wants to do. The many bugaromani in DPMNE no doubt will be glad to change our identity, and they have been working hard to graft a Turko-Mongol one for years, but keeping government power prevents them from doing so at present.

We said to Greece, 'We want to make a compromise. We want to find solutions,' so we become a member of NATO, member of the EU.Compromise means both sides make moves, not just one side to make concessions and the other side to have a victory.

As above, willing to change the state name but not identity!

Fortunately....Greece....our citizens are regularly going there for tourism.

Idiots are Macedonians who pump money into the economy of our mortal enemies!

CNN: People think of Alexander the Great as coming from Macedonia. What is at the heart of being Macedonian?

NG: Alexander the Great's empire was 2,300 years ago. The empire was very big and had different parts. And today these places are many countries, so I think he's a person who belongs to the world, not to Greece or Macedonia or India. So, we don't like to monopolize history. Unfortunately the other side is insisting on monopolizing the history. They are saying, "This is just our history."

What a WANKER Gruevski is! He completely misses a grand opportunity to state clearly what is the essence of the Macedonian identity - "what is at the heart of being Macedonian", the question he is actually asked, and RAMBLES on about Alexander belonging to the WORLD and that Macedonians should not monopolise his heritage.


Gruevski - "patriot" (ipol)

----------------

After Gruevski's performance in the above interview, especially in saying absolutely nothing on the Macedonian identity question, is it any wonder that we see a title such as the following, posted by Dimko Piperkata in the General Discussion sub-forum:

YouTube - CNN - Macedonia's identity crisis

YouTube - CNN - Macedonia's identity crisis ???

Steeped in history, Macedonia is the youngest ancient country in the world.

IMO, if ever there was one, this is the PERFECT OXYMORON! :-)

And if Macedonia is paying (as some are saying and as it appears to be the case) CNN for this "promotional" coverage, what are we to make of these negative statements and the politicians involved in this "arrangement"?

Following examples will highlight some anomalies in presenting the facts:

In 2001, there was an uprising of ethnic Albanians – who make up a quarter of the population – demanding equal rights, leading to months of violence. Peace returned later the same year with a peacekeeping operation by NATO troops and a new constitution recognizing Albanian as an official language and increasing access for ethnic Albanians to public sector jobs, including the police force.

Country profile: Macedonia
By Catriona Davies, for CNN

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/eu....profile/index.
Html

This is anti-Macedonian Ramkovist/Shiptar/"IC" Imperialist spin that his been presented from day one of the 2001 TERRORIST ATTACK on Macedonia and there is not one iota of truth in it. This line is also propagated by the RAMKOVIST state and establishment, their international backers ("IC") and the Diaspora Ramkovist appendages such as the UMD.

The following link provides further reading for those that need detailed information of what the "Framework Agreement"/"Ramkoven dogovor" constitutes and how patriotic Macedonians around the world viewed (and continue to view), responded to, and opposed its implementation:

Shto e Ohridskiot ramkoven dogovor? Iznuden akt na kapitulatsiya na porazena strana

However the country is still finding its identity, having to fight for its flag, its heritage and even its name.
http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2010/ilist/?hpt=Sbin

The following question was put to N. Gruevski by CNN (last part of the quoted article above): "What is at the heart of being Macedonian?" and he botched it completely. Gruevski avoided giving an answer to the question and one has to ask why this was the case. Whilst NG avoided (who knows what dubious reasons lay behind this act) clearing up the issue and stating where he stands on the Macedonian identity, others such as Gligorov, Crvenkovski, Georgiveski, Frchkovski, Miloshoski, and the rest of the KUPOCI have been openly undermining it for years.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Gruevski has disgraced Macedonia with these comments, no doubt about it. Would Ivanov had said the same?

[Makedonetz]

Update:

May 17/2010

Pressure Mounts for Solution to Name Dispute



The Macedonian government is working to solve the name spat as quickly as possible, the country's prime minister Nikola Gruevski told media on Sunday.

"We are working to solve the name issue in the short term, we are giving our best, our maximum, while of course protecting the state and the national interests of the Republic of Macedonia,” Gruevski said.

His statement came after his meeting last week with the US Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs, Philip Gordon, which took place in Zagreb. Prior to the meeting Gordon raised concern that the country could remain on the doorsteps of NATO and the EU for a longer period if it fails to solve the name spat quickly.

Local media saw the meeting as a means for the US to exert pressure on the parties to speed up the UN sponsored name talks.

Similar concerns about the effects of the unresolved name spat were voiced by Macedonian opposition leader Branko Crvenkovski from the Social Democrats, SDSM, and from Gruevski’s junior coalition partner, Ali Ahmeti of the Democratic Union for Integration, DUI.

EU diplomats have also been consistently pushing for the negotiations to move along quickly. They have expressed hope that the spat could be resolved within the next few months, noting that there must be political will from both sides.

“If we delay resolving the name issue and the implementation of all reforms that are important for the country's future and its economic progress, it will certainly have a negative impact," Erwan Fouere, the EU Ambassador to Macedonia, said recently.

Meanwhile, observers expect that the UN mediator in the talks, Mathew Nimetz, will present a new compromise name proposal by the end of this month.

Some observers expect that the proposed name will be “Republic of Northern Macedonia”, which would be presented without the requirement that the countries that already recognise Skopje’s official name, Republic of Macedonia, change their stance.

Since 2008 Athens has effectively been blocking Skopje’s entry into NATO, arguing that Skopje’s official name, Republic of Macedonia, implies territorial claims against its own northern province, which is also called Macedonia.

In December Greece blocked Skopje’s bid to obtain a start date for its EU accession talks over the same dispute.

[julie]

“Republic of Northern Macedonia"???

We are farked

[Soldier of Macedon]

Let's see what eventuates, I don't know how many times I have heard in the last 2 years that the Macedonian government is on the brink of accepting 'northern' Macedonia or some other prefix, nothing has happened (officially) yet.

[Makedonetz]

Julie my cousin in Bitola sent me a email this morning saying they are very pissed off, this better not go into affect or hell will have to pay.