South Australian Premier Mike Rann, an enemy to Macedonians

[Rogi]

MP_MK,

I have a list. With a complete profile and dossier.

[MP_MK]

MP_MK,

I have a list. With a complete profile and dossier.

excellent, would you be prepared to email it / share it?

[sf.]

I will be very surprised if TT or ACA aired a story on this, at least in the light that we expect them to. If they did, they'd most likely misrepresent the issue or spin it in a way that doesn't upset anyone (besides Rann of course).

If this is as effective as a media campaign is gonna get, than you're wasting our time and yours. Let AMHRC handle this in court, and let's offer them our support. The rest is just hot air.

[Prolet]

MP, Who can you trust these days??Alot of Spies reading over this forum and others too.

[MP_MK]

I will be very surprised if TT or ACA aired a story on this, at least in the light that we expect them to. If they did, they'd most likely misrepresent the issue or spin it in a way that doesn't upset anyone (besides Rann of course).

If this is as effective as a media campaign is gonna get, than you're wasting our time and yours. Let AMHRC handle this in court, and let's offer them our support. The rest is just hot air.

It's good to get surprised from time to time.

Not wasting my time at all. I work 18 hours a day / 7 days a week, I have no issue with debating with those that challenge me, be it 1 individual here or all. Admittedly, conversations here will serve no purpose, except for perhaps silencing the individudals that spread lies, gossip and bitch like old ladies in a hair dressing salon.


AMHRC are doing their part and will continue to do so while collaborating with the other groups / individuals.


No hot air here.

[Soldier of Macedon]

What are you waiting for mate? I think it's time you come off that cloud you seem to be floating on and get back to reality. Vangelovski will not be banned from here, none of his actions are even close to such a move being contemplated, so I would advise you not to wait for that to eventuate anytime soon or at all.

With regard to who is "embarrassing" who, well, let me put it to you this way, champ. You have come here to the Macedonian Truth Organisation, knowing full well (and save us the effort if you are intending to deny it) the discussions that have taken place with regard to several pathetically worded articles and conducted interviews by the UMD, knowing full well the sentiment about this group, not only from this website/forum but from several other groups and organisations also - and you suggest Meto as the person that should speak on our behalf on a matter concerning the Macedonian identity, and furthermore, one that relates to the Macedonian community in Australia (with whom he is completely out of touch)? Are you overseeing UMD operations in Adelaide? Has Meto promised you something? I must admit, your approach mirrors the UMD's, particularly the 'cloak and dagger' charade, talking about how no one should act "independently on this matter otherwise they will F**K IT UP" - Let me ask you, who asked you to take the lead on this? Who asked you to tee up interviews with TV stations and further to that, suggest Meto as the most appropriate person for this job?

I have spoken to a contact of mine from today /tonight and they are advising me tomorrow if they will run with the story, same too with ACA.

If I can secure the interview / story, I will have Meto from UMD do it this Saturday morning......

Alot of "i" will do that and "i" will do this - Is that your idea of not working independently in order to not, "F**K IT UP"? Get Meto to do the interview, and that way you will, beyond doubt, ensure the FKUP result you are apparently trying to avoid.

With regard to the AMHRC letter and actions, you stated that no legal action has been intitated. A SIMPLE letter ONLY has been sent today. - Quite a pessimistic tone for someone who claims be a supporter of the AMHRC. Tell me, did you notice that the letter stipulates the intent to pursue legal actions against Rann? Are you upset that it wasn't you who made the first move in public? What were you waiting for, somebody else first? Or something else?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...24/1931850.htm
"Not only is our culture different but our language and our history, our religion are different. The distinction between what is actually a Slav Macedonian and a Greek is very obvious, particularly to us," he said.

Is this guy a friend of yours? Is that how you distinguish yourself from a Greek?

Point is SOM- While members here are debating who should do what, all parties are uniting to hit this matter strategiclly and from various different angles.

Yeah, I can see it, we have Democratic MK Meto, Slav MK Kostoff, and the man of 'the show' that no one seems to know (you) making moves without informing the same people who he tries to reprimand for 'independent' actions. Give me a break.

AMHRC are more designed to spearjead the human rights aspect of the movement, not the political aspect.

AMHRC are seasoned veterans in several arenas that relate to our cause, the Macedonian Cause, that is. You are using the title of their organisation to marginalise them, their record, actions and achievements outweigh anything your friends in Washington have had to offer so far. Here is another completely false statement from yourself:

It would pay to know that the Leaders of the Australian Macedonian community support Meto conducting the initial interview if it can be secured.

Really, "the" leaders? Who are they? And why the secrecy? If these 'leaders' are actually what you say they are, why on earth would they want to be secretive and private about something so fundamentally public? We aren't talking about a murder trial here for crying out loud, they are supposed to be public figures in any case, they should make their declarations and backings public. This indicates to me that either they are shallow and weak characters, or, that you are conjuring much of what you have been harping on about in the last few days.

So which Community Organisations actually do support your "Meto is our man for the interview" idea?

Answer his question mate, because, as far as I am concerned, your failure to do so will confirm that you are not of sound character, and subsequently not worthy of respect.

Get the idea out of your heads that the Macedonian people should 'know what is best and stay quiet' like pawns while people like yourself make all of these covert "moves" behind the scenes. It's a new day, mate (in case you haven't realised yet, it is a figure of speech, mate), the Macedonians in the Diaspora are not willing to allow this sort of 'leadership' that lacks transparency and integrity to speak on our behalf any longer.

[MP_MK]

MP, Who can you trust these days??Alot of Spies reading over this forum and others too.

Agreed.

I strongly feel that this forum and Maknews should be closed, member forums only.

The amount of arguing, bickering and lies that are spread etc.. etc.. is not constructive to our greater cause as Macedonians.

[Soldier of Macedon]

The MTO will not become a closed forum, period.

The liars, those that manipulate and spread fear, etc, need to be exposed, in that way it contributes to our cause greatly because the Macedonian people will be made aware of exactly who is who in the zoo, so to speak.

I am sick of these plastic 'leaders', we need rock-solid characters with intellect, not banana-men.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Excellent work by the guys at the AMHRC, all Macedonians can have confidence that this matter is being led by those experienced in tackling such racism.

[Soldier of Macedon]

No Julie, it appears to be there.
You were the first one to bring this matter to our attention. I have no idea why such a delay in protesting this matter occurred. I had never seen the video until very recently and wish I had seen it earlier.

Good point RtG.

Perhaps our MP_MK can enlighten us about that, given that he seems to be in the 'know' about (allegedly) everything that takes place in his locality concerning Macedonians? And if Meto is still doing the interview that he apparently arranged?

[Prolet]

SOM, With all due respect here, you cant expect to trust all the udbashi reading this forum and drooling to pick up any information for this topic. Why should we give these people a weapon to hit us with?? You can bet your bottom dollar that the Pan Macedonian Network is monitoring this forum, i can see where you are coming from but the risk is just too great. I dont know myslef, i'd rather not know then let the enemy find out.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Prolet, with all due respect, you are wrong. Stop scare-mongering with your 'udbashi' and 'pan-racist' groups, we are all aware that they frequent our forums for information, but there should be nothing secretive about community leaders - who are public figures in any case - making their stance known in public. I want to know who our apparent 'leaders' are backing, and I want to know why. That is the right of every Macedonian.

We are talking about an apparent group of 'leaders' who apparently support Meto as the man for this apparent interview - We aren't talking about a murder trial or corporate take-over where witnesses, investors, etc have something to lose should they reveal their positions on the issue.

[MP_MK]

What are you waiting for mate? I think it's time you come off that cloud you seem to be floating on and get back to reality. Vangelovski will not be banned from here, none of his actions are even close to such a move being contemplated, so I would advise you not to wait for that to eventuate anytime soon or at all.

With regard to who is "embarrassing" who, well, let me put it to you this way, champ. You have come here to the Macedonian Truth Organisation, knowing full well (and save us the effort if you are intending to deny it) the discussions that have taken place with regard to several pathetically worded articles and conducted interviews by the UMD, knowing full well the sentiment about this group, not only from this website/forum but from several other groups and organisations also - and you suggest Meto as the person that should speak on our behalf on a matter concerning the Macedonian identity, and furthermore, one that relates to the Macedonian community in Australia (with whom he is completely out of touch)? Are you overseeing UMD operations in Adelaide? Has Meto promised you something? I must admit, your approach mirrors the UMD's, particularly the 'cloak and dagger' charade, talking about how no one should act "independently on this matter otherwise they will F**K IT UP" - Let me ask you, who asked you to take the lead on this? Who asked you to tee up interviews with TV stations and further to that, suggest Meto as the most appropriate person for this job?

Alot of "i" will do that and "i" will do this - Is that your idea of not working independently in order to not, "F**K IT UP"? Get Meto to do the interview, and that way you will, beyond doubt, ensure the FKUP result you are apparently trying to avoid.

With regard to the AMHRC letter and actions, you stated that no legal action has been intitated. A SIMPLE letter ONLY has been sent today. - Quite a pessimistic tone for someone who claims be a supporter of the AMHRC. Tell me, did you notice that the letter stipulates the intent to pursue legal actions against Rann? Are you upset that it wasn't you who made the first move in public? What were you waiting for, somebody else first? Or something else?

Is this guy a friend of yours? Is that how you distinguish yourself from a Greek?

Yeah, I can see it, we have Democratic MK Meto, Slav MK Kostoff, and the man of 'the show' that no one seems to know (you) making moves without informing the same people who he tries to reprimand for 'independent' actions. Give me a break.

AMHRC are seasoned veterans in several arenas that relate to our cause, the Macedonian Cause, that is. You are using the title of their organisation to marginalise them, their record, actions and achievements outweigh anything your friends in Washington have had to offer so far. Here is another completely false statement from yourself:

Really, "the" leaders? Who are they? And why the secrecy? If these 'leaders' are actually what you say they are, why on earth would they want to be secretive and private about something so fundamentally public? We aren't talking about a murder trial here for crying out loud, they are supposed to be public figures in any case, they should make their declarations and backings public. This indicates to me that either they are shallow and weak characters, or, that you are conjuring much of what you have been harping on about in the last few days.

Answer his question mate, because, as far as I am concerned, your failure to do so will confirm that you are not of sound character, and subsequently not worthy of respect.

Get the idea out of your heads that the Macedonian people should 'know what is best and stay quiet' like pawns while people like yourself make all of these covert "moves" behind the scenes. It's a new day, mate (in case you haven't realised yet, it is a figure of speech, mate), the Macedonians in the Diaspora are not willing to allow this sort of 'leadership' that lacks transparency and integrity to speak on our behalf any longer.

Hi SOM,

Thank you for taking the time to contribute an in depth attack on me.

I’ll quickly respond in order:


1.
I’m on no cloud.

2.
Tom has made comment after comment full of lies and mis quoting me. Reason for reprimand I would have thought.

3.
I am not your “mate” or “champ”, perhaps you need to use a better tone?! Be example as an admin and raise the bar perhaps?

4.
I couldn’t care less what the MTO position is on UMD, or any other individual for that matter. Everyone has the right to their opinion and position on the matter, including you. What business is it of mine to persuade you either way?

5.
It was not me who suggested Meto conduct the interview, I advised that amongst the group of people responsible for the video and those that are unifying on the matter have no issue at all with Meto conducting the interview, including representatives of AMHRC.

6.
No I am not overseeing any operation of UMD.

7.
Meto has not promised me any position, neither have we had discussions on the matter.

I am a business man, I spend very little time in Adelaide and Australia for that matter. I have projects in Macedonia and work closely with Companies from within MK including my own and I work closely with NGOs within Macedonia and outside of Macedonia while operating my other companies, a couple of which RTG is aware of.

As stated- I work 18 hours a day / 7 days a week I have no time for any new venture / position. Are we clear?

8.
Who advised you that I took the lead on this matter? I am simply one person of many who are unified on the matter moving forward. There is scope for you to also come on board, just as there is for RTG, as I advised him of this in person yesterday. Please confirm RTG.

9.
I apologise for using the word “I”. I can assure you I do not seek exposure / lime light or want credit on the matter once results are achieved. I steer clear of lime light, perhaps this is why you do not know me? I have lived in Adelaide for 30 years and have only met RTG yesterday for the first time.

10.
I clarified that at that point, no legal action had been taken or initiated, simply a letter on behalf of AMHRC. This is fact. I did not want members of this forum jumping to conclusions.

11.
I am not upset about anything. AMHRC are the best group to handle the legal side and are / will continue to do so. Why would I be upset? I support AMHRC 100% All excellent people IMO

12.
As for making the “first move”: you should be aware that this video has been available for some time and has been circulated amongst key people only until recently to buy some time so that a collective unified, professional approach can be rolled out.

13.
I have met “this guy” in very, very recent times. I do not know him well enough at this point to call him a friend, but I see his heart is in the right place, putting aside a slip up on his part some time ago.

14.
You accuse me of making a false statement, you are incorrect. The leaders of the South Australian and wider Macedonian community who are involved in this unified approach on the matter do in fact support Meto conducting an interview, so does the AMHRC.

The only person that I could see not supporting this move in SA would be RTG, but at this point has not come on board. I asked RTG if he would come on board yesterday in person. RTG please confirm.

15.
As stated earlier, I will not place individuals names on this forum- leaders or not. And as stated earlier I am more than happy to confirm this with RTG and he can confirm with you and his forum here.

16.
I care very little for your opinion of myself being not of sound character and I care less for your respect. Have patience and it will all come out in the wash, or again as I stated earlier, I am happy to confirm with RTG and he can confirm with you.

17.
Getting tired at this point of being called “mate”.

18.
Do you now speak on behalf of all Macedonian people? Information has been kept silent on this side, purely so our opposition do not gain wind of the momentum (the specifics). Nothing more, nothing less!


Again, I thank you for your reply / questions and so forth.

Again, I have no issue clarifying points with RTG and him confirming with his flock here.

All the best in everything you do.

[Prolet]

Prolet, with all due respect, you are wrong. Stop scare-mongering with your 'udbashi' and 'pan-racist' groups, we are all aware that they frequent our forums for information, but there should be nothing secretive about community leaders - who are public figures in any case - making their stance known in public. I want to know who our apparent 'leaders' are backing, and I want to know why. That is the right of every Macedonian.

We are talking about an apparent group of 'leaders' who apparently support Meto as the man for this apparent interview - We aren't talking about a murder trial or corporate take-over where witnesses, investors, etc have something to lose should they reveal their positions on the issue.

SOM, Scare mongering?? Everyone can read this forum i think you know this, i want the truth just like you do but do you think its wise posting all this information on a public forum?? Do you think its wise to post answers to questions in the terms of "How is UMD Financed, who covers Meto's wages, who pays for his Globe Trotting" etc etc

Im not stopping anybody state their opinion or state their mind this is a democracy however revealing identities of people is not a good idea on a public forum, especially when this matter is going to a court of law, we all want the truth but we also dont want to give our opposition an advantage do we?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Wow, mate, an 18-point response, i'm honoured. I won't bother responding in kind.

I do, however, have the following as a reply. I have seen how Vangelovski quoted you, and I saw how you tried to re-interpret your earlier posts when challenged. Pretty poor form.

It was not me who suggested Meto conduct the interview....

Really?

If I can secure the interview / story, I will have Meto from UMD do it this Saturday morning......

Who exactly do you think you are fooling?

I apologise for using the word “I”.

As you should, your mistake has given a false (or intended?) impression about some particulars concerning this issue.

As stated- I work 18 hours a day / 7 days a week I have no time for any new venture / position. Are we clear?

Lol, explain your conjured lifestyle to someone with more time on their hands for that sort of dribble, let me know if that isn't clear enough for you. Despite your busy 'schedule', you have recently had plenty of time in your short 6 hour day gaps (one wonders when you sleep) in what little time you spend in Australia. I think you would make an excellent UMD candidate.

I clarified that at that point, no legal action had been taken or initiated, simply a letter on behalf of AMHRC. This is fact. I did not want members of this forum jumping to conclusions.

You think the members of the MTO do not possess the basic ability of reading and understanding a letter that consists of a few sentences? That's an insult. Why did you feel the need to keep harping on about the same irrelevant point, when the intention was made clear on the letter?

As for making the “first move”: you should be aware that this video has been available for some time and has been circulated amongst key people only until recently to buy some time so that a collective unified, professional approach can be rolled out.

Really, that was the reason? Did you facilitate all of this? I take it that the AMHRC and other such groups were notified ASAP of your intended approach, or no?

You accuse me of making a false statement, you are incorrect.

No, I was certainly correct. You made a gross assumption that the leaders of the Macedonian community would back your idea, you have failed to indicate which leaders (like they will be condemned to death should they reveal this little non-harming detail) and you have failed to provide anything other than your own statements.

The leaders of the South Australian and wider Macedonian community who are involved in this unified approach on the matter do in fact support Meto conducting an interview, so does the AMHRC.

AMHRC, do you support Meto conducting the interview? I doubt it, but am happy to be proven wrong by actual representatives of the group. Speaking of which, tell me MP_MK, why do you find it so easy to reveal the AMHRC as an apparent 'supporter' of Meto and 'the interview', while continuing to create a smoke screen for the 'others'?

The only person that I could see not supporting this move in SA would be RTG, but at this point has not come on board. I asked RTG if he would come on board yesterday in person. RTG please confirm.

The only 'person'? I highly doubt it. I will take a stab in the dark here, and say that RtG won't be accepting such a notion any time this millenia. Again, I am happy to be proven wrong by RtG himself, as I don't think anybody here requires (of all people) you to speak on their behalf.

As stated earlier, I will not place individuals names on this forum- leaders or not.

Let me explain this to you the way I would to a child. You have Mr Petrov the businessman who owns a successful chain of stores, Mr Jolevski who is a lawyer, and Mr Ralevski who runs a popular folk cultural group. All are active as leaders in the Macedonian community in various ways, oganising and managing events, picnics, dinner dances, etc.

How are they at risk if they are endorsing a mere (and apparent) interview (that hasn't taken place) by someone like Meto?

Do you now speak on behalf of all Macedonian people?

When I make the following statement:

Get the idea out of your heads that the Macedonian people should 'know what is best and stay quiet' like pawns while people like yourself make all of these covert "moves" behind the scenes. It's a new day, mate (in case you haven't realised yet, it is a figure of speech, mate), the Macedonians in the Diaspora are not willing to allow this sort of 'leadership' that lacks transparency and integrity to speak on our behalf any longer.

I am echoing the sentiment of the Macedonian people, and the Macedonians in the Diaspora in particular. I am sure 99% of the Macedonians in the world would agree with my statement. You don't?