United Macedonia Diaspora

[Risto the Great]

Bitove visited Australia well over 10 years ago.
He failed to impress the Australian Macedonian community and it may well have been due to his political allegiances in Macedonia. He seems to have left a similar taste in the mouth as the UMD appears to nowadays. I will look further into this.

[mvb9999]

No one single organization can adequately represent the Macedonian diaspora

Absolutely true... we need a variety of organizations for many reasons, not just to because of differing views and differing issues, but because one organization would be very unsafe. If one organization fails, then there will be no one left... our movement needs to be impossible to eradicate, and only a variety of groups can guarantee that.

An all encompassing organization like what the 'UMD' purports to be by their example, is proven undemocratic and out of touch with the Cause at best.

UMD does not purport to be all-encompassing by any stretch, this is false, nor is it out of touch by a long shot. However, as a UMD supporter, I am sensitive to your concern about democracy and a grassroots approach.

This is being responded to, however. At the 2011 conference in Washington, elections will be held for all Board Member positions, and more financial transparency has been promised, as well. Stay tuned on that front, I am optimistic on it.

Speaking about 2025, what a groovy name man. Like that's way out into the future. Are we supposed to fall asleep till then? Has this fancy big dude whatever it is group even nibbled on something Macedonian since it was started?

I love the name Macedonia 2025 - these guys are heavy hitters from the largest corporations, and they are all about results. By putting an actual date in their name, they're clearly stating that the changes are huge so they will take time, but also that they can't wait forever.

I have attended a MK2025 event in Toronto, and I liked what I heard. Many of Gruveski's reforms of the tax law and the judiciary are based on consultation with the Bitoves, and their events are a great way to network with other Macedonian professionals.

[Vangelovski]

I'm sure Bitove, like UMD, has undertaken commendable charitable activities.

However, they are not in question. What is in question is their political views. I notice that over on Maknews everyone is wondering why noone from AMHRC or MHRMI turned up to the conference. Posters came up with a range of reasons, but missed the glaringly obvious - UMD's policies do not align with theirs.

Here is an MPO document, co-signed by James Bitove (Brother of John Bitove Senior):

http://www.makedonskatribuna.com/DISCLOSURE1960.pdf

This document is about the "Bulgarians of Greek Macedonia". This document also notes (and this has been documented elsewhere) that John Bitove is a REPRESENTATIVE of Kiro Gligorov.

Meto himself advertises Bitove's connections with Gligorov:

Bitove also detailed his key role in various philanthropic initiatives in Canada and in Macedonia, and his personal direct friendship and involvement with President Kiro Gligorov in the highly unstable transition years of Macedonia’s independence in 1991...UMD President Koloski presented Bitove with the UMD Lifetime Achievement Award calling Bitove his personal role model, a role model for all Macedonians, and a true leader in the global Macedonian community.

http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/487/1/

As for UMD not purporting to be everything to everyone, here is a UMD blurb about itself:

United Macedonia Diaspora (Meto Koloski, CEO) – has established its headquarters on Pennsylvania Avenue, DC with representative offices in many countries including Australia and Belgium. UMD promotes the interests of the Macedonian Diaspora across the globe, including the rights of the ethnic minorities. www.umdiaspora.org

http://www.friendsofmacedonia.com/si...erspring09.pdf
(Page 2)

[Mr Brandy]

Bitove visited Australia well over 10 years ago.
He failed to impress the Australian Macedonian community and it may well have been due to his political allegiances in Macedonia. He seems to have left a similar taste in the mouth as the UMD appears to nowadays. I will look further into this.

Risto - it hardly surprises me that the Australian Macedonian community that you apparently represent was unimpressed. Have you been democratically elected to represent the community?

[Vangelovski]

Mr. SoM,
You are an extremist

How is SoM an extremist?

[Vangelovski]

It was great to see the strong Australian presence at UMD Global Conference... stronger than last year.

Who, specifically, turned up from Australia?

Australia is such a key part of the Macedonian Diaspora community, so much potential.

Thats right. The Australian Macedonian component is the largest of the Macedonian diaspora, and UMD's vision and policies have been rejected. These same views were originally rejected 20 years ago when they were espoused by Gligorov/Crvenkovski and Bitove, I'm not sure why Meto thought they would be accepted now?

As for the "gang" here on MTO, you will notice that it includes a number of elected community leaders and activists from Sydney, Melbourne, Canberra/Queanbeyan and Adelaide (forgive me if I've left anyone out). So, the views that are expressed here are not only the views of the individuals but the wider communities that those ELECTED leaders represent.

[Mr Brandy]

Vangelovski - or should I call you Inspector Vangelovski. He really dug up a hot lead - a document fresh from 1960. I suspect you read the same Facebook message to Meto that I read - how clever. I find this so cute - you should really contact some dushmani in Toronto to get better material then this.

[Vangelovski]

Vangelovski - or should I call you Inspector Vangelovski. He really dug up a hot lead - a document fresh from 1960. I suspect you read the same Facebook message to Meto that I read - how clever. I find this so cute - you should really contact some dushmani in Toronto to get better material then this.

Brandy, if the fact that the Bitove family consider themselves "Bulgarians" and then switched to Gligorovism isn't enough for you, then its easy to see why you support UMD.

[Vangelovski]

MVB,

Seeing as you are a member of the UMD Board of Directors, perhaps you can explain the following comments that Meto made at the GC1.

Meto effectively equated UMD with the Macedonian state itself, as if they are one and the same and claims that attacking UMD is attacking the Macedonian state. How so? When did UMD become Macedonia itself? (the part in brackets was a little inaudible):

Those who propagate against Macedonia are well aware of the existence of our precious national resources like the UMD [that keeps our nation strong] and gives voice to our collective cause. As such, UMD is targeted and continuously under attack by those who wish to weaken and divide and destroy our nation’s institutions and in doing so the goals and aspirations they so effectively advance.

http://www.youtube.com/user/UMDiaspo...29/aqkAUc5kkbI
1:35 minutes

[Mr Brandy]

Brandy, if the fact that the Bitove family consider themselves "Bulgarians" and then switched to Gligorovism isn't enough for you, then its easy to see why you support UMD.

Vangelovski - honestly you're still calling Bitove a Bulgarian because of his brothers involvement with the MPO in 1960. Bitove has stated clearly and definitively that he is Macedonian and not Bulgarian, Greek or anything else (Sorry - he also declared himself a proud Canadian).

Let me ask you something Vangelovski. If someone was once brainwashed into thinking they have a Bulgarian consciousness but later saw the light and became more enlightened and realized that they truly were Macedonian and they fully accepted a Macedonian consciousness - would you call them Macedonian or Bulgarian?

[Vangelovski]

Vangelovski - honestly you're still calling Bitove a Bulgarian because of his brothers involvement with the MPO in 1960. Bitove has stated clearly and definitively that he is Macedonian and not Bulgarian, Greek or anything else (Sorry - he also declared himself a proud Canadian).

Let me ask you something Vangelovski. If someone was once brainwashed into thinking they have a Bulgarian consciousness but later saw the light and became more enlightened and realized that they truly were Macedonian and they fully accepted a Macedonian consciousness - would you call them Macedonian or Bulgarian?

Brandy,

I mean't to say "considered" past tense rather than "consider" present tense. You forgot part two - he then converted to Gligorovism, which he confirmed during the conference over the past week. I can't see the improvement.

[Mr Brandy]

Vangelovski - I honestly don't know what he converted to. He seemed pretty busy either raising money for Medicine for Macedonia or putting his own money to work in a multitude of different organizations. But please answer my earlier question.

[mvb9999]

I notice that over on Maknews everyone is wondering why noone from AMHRC or MHRMI turned up to the conference. Posters came up with a range of reasons, but missed the glaringly obvious - UMD's policies do not align with theirs.

That's not it. MHRMI/AMHRC/Vinozhito see UMD as a threat to their funding, pure and simple.

Here is an MPO document, co-signed by James Bitove (Brother of John Bitove Senior):

LEFT]http://www.makedonskatribuna.com/DISCLOSURE1960.pdf[/LEFT]

This document is about the "Bulgarians of Greek Macedonia". This document also notes (and this has been documented elsewhere) that John Bitove is a REPRESENTATIVE of Kiro Gligorov.

An irrelevant ancient document.

Meto himself advertises Bitove's connections with Gligorov:
Bitove also detailed his key role in various philanthropic initiatives in Canada and in Macedonia, and his personal direct friendship and involvement with President Kiro Gligorov in the highly unstable transition years of Macedonia’s independence in 1991...UMD President Koloski presented Bitove with the UMD Lifetime Achievement Award calling Bitove his personal role model, a role model for all Macedonians, and a true leader in the global Macedonian community.
http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/487/1/

Yes.... and? When Macedonia declared its independence, and needed all the help it could get, Bitove stepped up the plate and assisted his homeland at the highest level.

As for UMD not purporting to be everything to everyone, here is a UMD blurb about itself:United Macedonia Diaspora (Meto Koloski, CEO) – has established its headquarters on Pennsylvania Avenue, DC with representative offices in many countries including Australia and Belgium. UMD promotes the interests of the Macedonian Diaspora across the globe, including the rights of the ethnic minorities. www.umdiaspora.org

http://www.friendsofmacedonia.com/si...erspring09.pdf
(Page 2)

You can play with bold button all you like, it certainly doesn't prove your many slanders against UMD... I really thought you'd come up with something better than that!

[Vangelovski]

Vangelovski - I honestly don't know what he converted to. He seemed pretty busy either raising money for Medicine for Macedonia or putting his own money to work in a multitude of different organizations. But please answer my earlier question.

How can I answer your earlier question seeing as your basing it on the first part of my statement and ignoring the second, which when included conveys a different meaning to what you a trying to give it.

My statement was not in relation to ethnic identity, and an individual choice to change that identity. Nor was my statement about charitable activities, which you are using in order to deflect from the topic. My statement was about political views and those held by Bitove and his family, which by the way, seem to align with UMD's at present.

[Vangelovski]

MVB,

It seems actual documented evidence is irrelevant to UMD. This is probably why UMD has spoken out against ancient Macedonian history - it must deem the documented evidence and "irrelevant ancient documents"..???

Please explain how UMD is a threat to other organisation's funding? Please also explain how UMD policies are the same as these organisations, seeing as you do not accept that as the reason they did not attend.

Please also explain how UMD represents the interests of the diaspora across the globe?

Finally, you do not deny the Gligorov/Bitove connection and their support for each other?