Macedonian Church Dispute in Australia

[Niko777]

I was just wondering if Petar is bishop of Pelagonia then why doesn't the Macedonian Orthodox Church give Australia its own bishop and make Australia into a diocese (eparchy)?

[Vangelovski]

I was just wondering if Petar is bishop of Pelagonia then why doesn't the Macedonian Orthodox Church give Australia its own bishop and make Australia into a diocese (eparchy)?

Australia is its own Diocese, Petar is just the temporary "administrator".

[George S.]

Does anyone know what's happening in the rogdale church someone has said they are at court againg.I don't know what it is about this time.Also someone said the units were sold & the money has gone??

[machorot]

Александар Џеповски - Среда, 06 Јуни 2012

Пример, ако некое друштво, организација, клуб, асоцијација и било што има име Македонија, а работат нечесно, несовесно и намерно за други интереси (јас лично би ставил пример тука, Сорос фондацијата, приватни црквени компании како во Австралија, Вранишковски...)

http://www.mn.mk/komentari/6282-Dosta-bese

If i read his commentary correctly, this guy is putting the MOCC in the same league as the Soros foundation?

[makedonche]

If i read his commentary correctly, this guy is putting the MOCC in the same league as the Soros foundation?

machorot
More like in the same category as opposed to the same league, a very clever way of disenfranchising the MOCC.

[julie]

Macedonian communities within Australia should have formed an Independent Macedonian Orthodox church years ago, the trauma and division and chaos caused by Petar would never have happened, if we had done this

[George S.]

Yhey don't seem to care except for the money or property.If the synod cared years ago if they showed 1 oe ounce of care.Then yhey could have run things properly.The sad fact is that the macedonian public here in australia does not trust petar.So if the synod remove him maybe things might improve.I heard from someone that the units are sold & who knows where the money's gone & i'm not sure if petars suing the communities or vice versa.Petar has bought so much mistrust etc & he is hellbent with having everything under his control.Is a vladija really necessary in the diasporra when everything was ok before he came without him??

[lavce pelagonski]

You can not remove a bishop, once he is sworn in he holds that position for life they are the rules.

[George S.]

Yeah lavce what if he doesn't perform properlyremember jovan who was difrocked for waywrd ways.Petar has only bought utter destruction & so much anti macedonism.That you wonder what he is trying to achieve dictatorism.Why not serve the people first to prove himself then if he's worthy the people may decide to give him everything.But on the contrary he has wasted so much money in the millions$6 million & has divided everyone up.Is that a good achievement or what.He should have stuck to serving the people only.

[boyphenom666]

I stumbled across this thread while googling. Let me give you some insight into this matter. I think what Petar is trying to do is to hold church property in the same manner the Catholic church holds property. Where I live (USA), Catholic Church property is in the name of the local Bishop and he serves as a trustee holding title to the property for the benefit of whoever is named in the trust (probably the Catholic Church).

I don't know if the local congregation is separate or not, but it would be a good idea to be separate given all the child molestation cases the Catholics have had. The idea would be for the Bishop to own the building and the local congregation to be the tenant in that building (just like a business being a tenant in a shopping center). In the USA, this is smart asset planning because if anything happens at the church level, they can't go after the building and the assets since they are theoretically separate organizations.

Most of the Macedonian Churches in the United States have a separate corporate charter and the same corporation that runs the church also owns the building. Therefore, if anything goes wrong in the church someone can sue and theoretically take your building if there are no funds or insurance available to pay a claim.

The smart thing to do would be to do this for ALL Macedonian Churches, but at the local level. I don't think the trust factor is there for a takeover of our buildings by Skopje.

[makedonche]

I stumbled across this thread while googling. Let me give you some insight into this matter. I think what Petar is trying to do is to hold church property in the same manner the Catholic church holds property. Where I live (USA), Catholic Church property is in the name of the local Bishop and he serves as a trustee holding title to the property for the benefit of whoever is named in the trust (probably the Catholic Church).

I don't know if the local congregation is separate or not, but it would be a good idea to be separate given all the child molestation cases the Catholics have had. The idea would be for the Bishop to own the building and the local congregation to be the tenant in that building (just like a business being a tenant in a shopping center). In the USA, this is smart asset planning because if anything happens at the church level, they can't go after the building and the assets since they are theoretically separate organizations.

Most of the Macedonian Churches in the United States have a separate corporate charter and the same corporation that runs the church also owns the building. Therefore, if anything goes wrong in the church someone can sue and theoretically take your building if there are no funds or insurance available to pay a claim.

The smart thing to do would be to do this for ALL Macedonian Churches, but at the local level. I don't think the trust factor is there for a takeover of our buildings by Skopje.

boyphenom66
The smart thing to do would be for you to read the entire thread in detail in order to get a complete understanding of what is happening, before you make any uninformed remarks such as those you have already made!

[boyphenom666]

boyphenom66
The smart thing to do would be for you to read the entire thread in detail in order to get a complete understanding of what is happening, before you make any uninformed remarks such as those you have already made!

In America, we value freedom of speech. You communist (as well as lefties all over the world) really like to control speech, don't you? I'm not going to read through three years of posts to tell you about what the Catholic Church does.

Here is a sample listing of church properties in the United States. You can see they are all in the name of Frederick E. Campbell, who is the Bishop of a Catholic Diocese in Ohio.

POINT BEING, THAT IT HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE!


070-007424 3880 REED RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK E 3880 REED ROAD
R19 T1 1/4T1

222-002957 6300 E DUBLIN GRANVILLE RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F MORGAN ROAD
R16 T2 1/4T3

010-062695 1420 GRANDVIEW AV CAMPBELL FREDERICK F THORNWOOD PL
HAMILTON EST LOTS 1-2 &

010-198415 4119 KARL RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F NORTHLAND SEN VIL
CONDO 2ND AMD

010-062694 GRANDVIEW AV CAMPBELL FREDERICK F 1452 GRANDVIEW AVE
HAMILTON EST

070-012402 4124 LONGHILL RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F 4124 LONGHILL RD
YORK PL 3

222-000326 6250 DUBLIN GRANVILLE RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F 6250 GRANVILLE RD
R16 T2 1/4T3

222-000355 5640 MORGAN RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F MORGAN RD
ACRES 1.5

222-000373 6358 DUBLIN GRANVILLE RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F DUBLIN-GRANVILLE RD
.961 ACRE

222-000536 5533 MORGAN RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F 6270 GRANVILLE RD
.593 ACRE

590-200924 SNOUFFER RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F SNOUFFER RD ACRES
1.03 R19 T2 1-4T 1 5

590-200923 SNOUFFER RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F SNOUFFER RD
1.043 ACRES

274-001307 COSGRAY RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F COSGRAY RD
O Q 1180 ENT 6953

222-003102 6300 DUBLIN GRANVILLE RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F FODOR RD
R16 T2 1/4T3

222-002954 6300 E DUBLIN GRANVILLE RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F GRANVILLE RD
7.364 ACRES

222-000584 5563 MORGAN RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F GRANVILLE RD
.603 ACRE

222-000583 5575 MORGAN RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F GRANVILLE RD
.609 ACRE

222-000582 5549 MORGAN RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F GRANVILLE RD
.598 ACRE

010-056484 SKIDMORE ST CAMPBELL FREDERICK F 33 SKIDMORE ST
FRANKLINTON

010-047531 41 SKIDMORE ST CAMPBELL FREDERICK F 41 SKIDMORE ST
43FT N S

010-039949 81 NELSON RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F 81 NELSON RD
3.85 ACRES COR LONG

140-003299 4082 CLIME RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F 4082 CLIME RD
ENTRY 1425-2442

040-000058 3764-768 BROADWAY CAMPBELL FREDERICK F 3768 BROADWAY
85X180FT HARRSBRG PK

010-070117 27 DOMINION BL CAMPBELL FREDERICK F 27 DOMINION BLVD 63
X 128 FT MID PT

010-057029 578-582 E MAIN ST CAMPBELL FREDERICK F 578 E MAIN ST
ENGLISH & MARTIN

010-056562 223 E LONG ST CAMPBELL FREDERICK F 223-25 E LONG ST
DESHLER

010-032184 211 E LONG ST CAMPBELL FREDERICK F 211-13 E LONG ST
DESHLER

010-013798 4240 KARL RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F 4240 KARL RD
0.549 ACRES

010-010140 588 W GAY ST CAMPBELL FREDERICK F 42 SKIDMORE ST
FRANKLINTON

010-004586 578 E MAIN ST CAMPBELL FREDERICK F 578 E MAIN ST
ENGLISH & MARTIN

140-003300 4166 CLIME RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F 4166 CLIME RD
.666 ACRS ENTRY 1425

140-003376 4082 CLIME RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F 4082 CLIME RD
ENTRY 1425-2442

010-004135 217 E LONG ST CAMPBELL FREDERICK F 217 E LONG ST
DESHLER

010-062695 1420 GRANDVIEW AV CAMPBELL FREDERICK F THORNWOOD PL
HAMILTON EST LOTS 1 & 2 &

010-023129 NELSON RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F 79 NELSON RD
32 X 170.4 FT NELSON

010-013907 1836 E LONG ST CAMPBELL FREDERICK F 1836 E LONG STREET
.136 ACRE

010-010148 NELSON RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F 87-89 NELSON RD 56.5
X171.25FT SS ON

010-010147 95-97 NELSON RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F 95-97 NELSON RD
63.1X172.5FTNSON

010-006631 E NAGHTEN ST CAMPBELL FREDERICK F BISH 386 E NAGHTEN ST
WATSON

010-242655 4031 CLIME RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F BSHP 4031 CLIME RD
ENTRY 2442-1425-1389

010-032674 OAKLAND PARK AV CAMPBELL FREDERICK F BSHP OAKLAND PARK AV
OAKLAND PARK

010-242656 4131 CLIME RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F BSHP 4131 CLIME RD
ENTRY 2442

273-008380 BRIGHT RD CAMPBELL FREDERICK F BSHP BRIGHT RD
R19 T2 1/4T2

[boyphenom666]

Example of a church in the Catholic Bishop's name:

http://www.franklincountyoh.metacama.com/photo/20110103/FV002446.jpg

Parcel ID Map Routing Number Owner
222-002957-00 222-O075C -021-02 CAMPBELL FREDERICK F BISHOP

[aleksandrov]

You can not remove a bishop, once he is sworn in he holds that position for life they are the rules.

Any Orthodox bishop can be defrocked, according to the Orthodox canons. Petar can tell you that himself.

A Metropolitan Bishop of a Diocese can be removed from that post and remain a bishop either with no Diocese of his own or at the head of another Diocese, in accordance with the Constitution of the Macedonian Orthodox Church. In our case, Petar gave up his 'life' post of Metropolitan Bishop of the Australian Diocese in 2004, so that he could hold onto the Bitola Diocese, after the Synod adopted a policy that no bishop may head more than one Diocese. Since that time, he has been 'Administrator' of the Australian Diocese, which is supposed to be a temporary position, until the vacancy of Metropolitan Bishop is filled. The fact that he has held onto that 'temporary' position for about 8 years now, while intimidating and blackmailing other bishops against accepting the permanent Metropolitan Bishop position, says a lot about his regard for the Orthodox canons and the Constitution of the Macedonian Orthodox Church, and his propensity for cheating.

As far as the posts about some Catholic bishop somewhere in the world holding church property in his name are concerned:

1. Without access to the terms of the trust he holds that property under, one cannot comment meaningfully on how similar that situation is to what Petar is trying to achieve in Australia. The problem here is not only about Petar having legal title to the property, but about what he would do with it if such title is as unrestricted by law and a grass-roots system of checks and balances as he wants it to be.

2. The Macedonian Orthodox Church and the Orthodox Church in general have a much more decentralised system of governance than the Catholic Church. That is one of the characteristics that distinguishes them most.

3. The attempt to label as 'communists' those who resist bishop Petar's grab for despotic power over Macedonian Orthodox communities and their properties is either malicious and disingenuous, or a the result of a very poor understanding of 'communist' systems of government, Petar's despotic and always changing (according to his daily needs) system of government, the democratic principles and structures under which Macedonian Orthodox communities in Australia have traditionally been established and operated, and the anti-Macedonian political motives underlying Petar's Greek and Serbian Church influenced agenda.

[makedonche]

[QUOTE=boyphenom666;129371]In America, we value freedom of speech. I couldn't give a shit what you do in America You communist (as well as lefties all over the world) really like to control speech, don't you?I'm in Australia, it's a Democracy here, I welcome free speech, not free garbage! I'm not going to read through three years of posts to tell you about what the Catholic Church does.Who gives a toss what the Catholic Church does? This thread is about the Church dispute in Australia, the fact that you can't be bothered informing yourself of the situation by reading through the thread speaks volumes about your "free speech"!

Here is a sample listing of church properties in the United States. You can see they are all in the name of Frederick E. Campbell, who is the Bishop of a Catholic Diocese in Ohio.And?

POINT BEING, THAT IT HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE! What has been done in America and what is done in Australia are 2 different things due to different legislative requirements, which I recommend you educate yourself about!