Macedonian Church Dispute in Australia

[Risto the Great]

Members may have certain rights in theory but it's difficult for them to apply them in practise. Just ask Mr. Mick Veloski who is one of the original founders of MOCA.

For a long time Mick has had concerns about the way MOCA is managed. At a General Meeting in August 2009 he requested that the proxy votes be verified but his request was denied by the chairman. He also requested permission from the members to inspect the books of the company. This request was granted. However 2 and a half years later he is yet to be given an opportunity to inspect the books. Initially he was told by the directors that he should contact the accountant to arrange the inspection. Each time Mick would contact the accountant he was told that the auditor had the books. Strangely, last year the auditor and accountant of MOCA resigned.


Now don't ask me to prove all this, what i can do is give you Mick's contact number (if you send me a private message) and you can ask him yourself. I'm sure he won't mind if you call him. You can read about some of his contribution to the macedonian cause on the following link:

http://www.pollitecon.com/html/life/Mick_Veloskey_Interview.html

I'm sure you'll be impressed.

Mr Veloskey sounds like a terrific bloke.

[Bill77]

Alternatively, why don't you become a member and ask them about it.

Or alternatively, don't donate or attend any of the church's be it a MOC or MOCA.

[aleksandrov]

Admins,

This is yet another example of Petar Karevski's cheap and cowardly pawns trying to vilify the Macedonian Orthodox Community of Australia with malicious lies, so as to discourage people from going to our churches and to encourage them to go to Petar's churches, which are headed towards non-Macedonian jurisdiction.

I have a fair idea who this "edna luta' charlatan is. He has been here before under other names, and his current pseudonym is quite reflective of his lifestyle. I am happy to reply to all of his disingenuous accusations if you can ensure that he makes them under his real identity. For the record, one of the members of his group of gutter pawns, Alexandar Dzepovski, just received a negative judgment in a defamation claim against him in the Supreme Court of NSW (myself and Michael Radin being the plaintiffs on behalf of the defamed Macedonian Orthodox communities). It would be somewhat of a perversion of justice to now let these cowards continue with the same dirty campaign without accountability by just letting them go on with the same vile campaign under false IDs.

Igor Aleksandrov

[aleksandrov]

As far as Mick Veloski is concerned, whatever he has done in the past can't' justify the fact that he is currently acting as a tool for a former President of the Bankstown City Football Club, who was expelled from MOCA for serious misconduct, including procuring over $50,000 from MOCA in 2008 for the alleged benefit of the Club, yet never having accounted to the Club for that money. The attempts by the expelled member to evade accountability for his own actions, by claiming that the MOCA Board was trying to cover something up in expelling him, have compelled MOCA to seek a declaration from the Supreme Court of NSW as to what the true position is. I can't comment a lot more about that until the judgment has been made or the case settled, except to say that Mick Veloski and his destructive group of spiteful recalcitrants are currently acting as the expelled member's support group. When their leader loses the legal proceedings, they will have to share accountability for his actions, in accordance with MOCA's constitution.

[aleksandrov]

For those who haven't yet noticed the obvious, Edna Luta is "Dojcin". He has never participated in this forum for any other purpose but to try to defame MOCA and its leadership. He is currently indulging in 'luti' in Macedonia, while evading liability in Australia for his ongoing campaign of defamatory lies. And he is yet to answer before this forum how he is managing to build a 'monastery' in Macedonia on private property, whose Diocese that property falls within and what the price for the responsible Bishop's 'blessing' is.

[Risto the Great]

Daj edna luta, for the benefit of transparency and in the interest of displaying a modicum of decency, I will have to insist you reveal your identity if you wish to continue with this discussion. Clearly you will be able to seek any clarification from Mr Aleksandrov directly. I am sure any perceived departures from the truth will have the benefit of being able to be tested in a number of ways. Which may include the use of the legal system. Are you up to it or will you try to continue with this innuendo?

[Vangelovski]

Daj edna luta, for the benefit of transparency and in the interest of displaying a modicum of decency, I will have to insist you reveal your identity if you wish to continue with this discussion. Clearly you will be able to seek any clarification from Mr Aleksandrov directly. I am sure any perceived departures from the truth will have the benefit of being able to be tested in a number of ways. Which may include the use of the legal system. Are you up to it or will you try to continue with this innuendo?

I agree that any further comments by "Daj edna luta" should be made under their real name. He has already been warned about spreading malicious lies under an alias.

[aleksandrov]

I would also suggest, for the sake of not doing Petar a favour by detracting attention from his campaign to usurp Macedonian Orthodox property and put it under foreign church jurisdiction, that any questions or accusations relating only to MOCA matters be moved to a separate thread. The dispute that this particular thread relates to is between at least 15 churches in Australia and Petar Karevski. MOCA only operates 2 of those churches. Edna Luta apparently has no problem with the anti-Petar resistance as a whole. If he is being sincere about that, he shouldn't have a problem with my proposal.

[aleksandrov]

Aleksandrov knows waiting for him to comment

The current judgment is incomplete. The orders are due to be made on 28 Feb 2012. I should be able to comment more shortly after that.

For the time being, let me assure everybody that after 15 years in court and millions of dollars on legal fees, Petar has FAILED in his attempt to take over the property and in his claim that an incorporated Association cannot be the legal owner of a Macedonian Orthodox parish. He has 'won' on some more peripheral claims for breach of trust by the Association, but the acts that are supposed to constitute those breaches would never have happened were it not for Petar's own refusal to recognise the association as the legal owner of its property.

It is unclear at this stage what the practical consequences of the findings of breach will be, but whatever the orders end up being, the current judgments will definitely be subject to a lengthy appeal process. In the meantime, the Association remains in control of the parish and its other property.

[George S.]

MACEDONIAN ETHNIC IDENTITY
Page: 21649 hansard


The Hon. PETER BREEN [6.25 p.m.]: I bring to the Parliament's attention the plight of Macedonians who have been denied the right to ethnic self-identification by the States of Greece, Bulgaria and Albania, as well as by Australian governments, under pressure from a lobby of the Greek state. Following the Balkan wars of 1912 and 1913 Macedonia, which was until then part of the Ottoman Empire, was divided between Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria and Albania. In a bid to create an ethnically homogenous nation, each of those states adopted the policy of denying indigenous Macedonians the right to maintain their own ethnic identity.

After World War II, following struggles by the Macedonian Liberation Movement, the Serb-occupied part of Macedonia was established as a Macedonian republic within the Yugoslav Federation. In 1991 the Republic of Macedonia became a sovereign and democratic state, recognised by the international community. But Greece, Bulgaria and, to a lesser extent Albania, continue to deny the existence of a Macedonian ethnic identity. Greece has extended this policy to denying the Republic of Macedonia the right to call itself Macedonia. To appease the Greek Government and its international lobby, some members of the international community, including Australia, have refused to recognise Macedonia under its proper name, and refer to it by the absurd name "Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia".

When Macedonian Australians declare their country of origin as Macedonia, Australian government departments record their country of origin as "Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia". This is despite the fact that over 120 countries, including the United States of America, Russia and China, have now recognised the Republic of Macedonia under its proper name. In 1994 the Australian Government further appeased the Greek Government's lobby by adopting a policy that all Australian government departments and agencies should refer to Australian Macedonians as "Slav Macedonians", with the official excuse that it was necessary to distinguish Macedonians from the Republic of Macedonia from Greek Macedonians.

Australian Macedonians are an ethnic community originating not only from the Republic of Macedonia, but also from parts of Macedonia under Greece, Bulgaria and Albania. They find it discriminatory and oppressive that the Australian Government should impose on them any identity other than the identity they have determined for themselves. I am not aware of any other ethnic community towards which Australia has adopted such a policy. In a report entitled "Denying Ethnic Identity: The Macedonians of Greece", Human Rights Watch-Helsinki found:

The Greek Government denies that a Macedonian minority exists in Greece. It refers to ethnic Macedonians as "Slavophones" or "Slav-Speakers". The official Greek position is that the Greek state is ethnically homogenous, the only exception being the Muslim minority in western Thrace—which is in reality a Turkish minority—whose existence was confirmed in 1923 by the Lausanne Treaty …

The Greek Government's denial of the existence of the Macedonian minority violates international human rights agreements to which the Greek Government is a party. [Under international law], minority identity is a matter to be determined by the individual, and not by the state.

In May 2004 the United Nations Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights urged Greece to reconsider its position with regard to the recognition of ethnic, religious or linguistic minorities, and invited it to ratify the Council of Europe Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities 1995.

In June 2004 the European Commission against Racism and Intolerance noted that "persons wishing to express their Macedonian, Turkish or other identity incur the hostility of the population". The commission encouraged the Greek authorities to take further steps toward the recognition of the freedom of association and expression of members of the Macedonian and Turkish communities. The United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Persons Belonging to National or Religious and Linguistic Minorities requires that:

… States shall protect the existence and the national or ethnic, cultural, religious and linguistic identity of minorities within their respective territories and shall encourage conditions for the promotion of that identity. (Article 1 (1))

Greece's denial of the existence of the Macedonian minority clearly contravenes its obligations under international law and agreements. A multicultural country like Australia should be strongly discouraging such an oppressive policy, rather than reinforcing it with its own denial of the Macedonian ethnic identity. If Australia had a bill of rights to give domestic force to international human rights law, the Government's refusal to respect the right of Macedonians to self-identification would likely be declared by a court as a breach of human rights. Australian Macedonians reject being identified as Slav-Macedonians or Former Yugoslav Macedonians. Australia should respect the right of Australian Macedonians to self-identification and should urge other countries to do likewise.

[Vangelovski]

I recently received this announcement.

"Mark Coure, Member for Oatley and Chair of the Macedonian Ministerial Committee are having a luncheon in the Speaker's Dining Room on Friday 2 March. The guests of honour at the lunch will be a delegation from the Parliament of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM), led by HE Mr Trajko Veljanoski, President of the Assembly. The First Secretary, Mr Majkl Sibinovski will be accompanying the delegation.

Mr Coure believes the lunch would be an excellent opportunity to strengthen your relationship with the Parliament of FYROM. Prior to the lunch there will include an opportunity for photographs to be taken with the delegation.

Prior to lunch, guests are requested to assemble in the Legislative Council Members' Lounge at 11.45am sharp.

Please note that members of the Macedonian media will be accompanying the delegation for photos before the commencement of lunch.""
Amazing how they keep refering to us as fyrom,whatever
happened to self identification??

It has been confirmed that one of the Macedonian Members of Parliament coming with Trajko Veljanoski is Xhavet Ademi. Xhavet Ademi is a wanted war crimes suspect (though this does not stop one from being elected to Parliament in Macedonia) and is still black listed in the United States:

Specially Designated Nationals List (SDN)
http://www.treasury.gov/ofac/downloads/sdnlist.txt

ADEMI, Xhevat; DOB 8 Dec 1962; POB Tetovo, Macedonia (individual)
[BALKANS]

How is it that such a person can be invited by the Government of NSW or even enter Australia?

[Prilepcanka]

Igor looks like we have a mutual admirer. This is just a couple of his imbecilic posts on Facebook


Aleksandar Dzepovski:- Ludje, nemate gajle, ce gi sredime tie imbicili... a onie "domacinki " sto si pikaaat nos vo kompaniski djavolski crkvi, za kratko vreme ce bidat prateni na Kings Cross vo Sydney, zatoa sto tamu Natemago caruva, a ne vo nasi sveti crkvi od MPC. Citajte moi statii na Makedonska Nacija ili odete na mn.mk


Aleksandar Dzepovski:- Bill, gotovi se. Nema kaj da mrdat. Sega ce se sozdade brgu i Narodna policija. koj ce trese gluposti ili pravi problemi, doma ce ims eide i nosovite ce im se krsat

Aleksandar Dzepovski:- Ti i taa Cavkata na Drago ce platite mnogu. Ce go prokolnete denot koga ste se rodile i koga ste se fatile vo igra so djavolot da mu sluzite so tie vasi smrdlivi kompaniski asocijaciii vmetnati vo crkvata. Za kuso vreme toa ce go osetite izrodi bedni. NADVOR OD MPC pod hitno, marerjalisti i kreteni mizerni. Site tie vasi djavolstini se polni so zloba, svalerstvo, zaviduvanje i sto ti ne najloso. Crknete dusmani ednas za sekogas, MPC bila i ce bide na Makedoncite, ne na kompaniski progrcki imbicili kako VAS.

[Vangelovski]

Igor looks like we have a mutual admirer. This is just a couple of his imbecilic posts on Facebook


Aleksandar Dzepovski:- Ludje, nemate gajle, ce gi sredime tie imbicili... a onie "domacinki " sto si pikaaat nos vo kompaniski djavolski crkvi, za kratko vreme ce bidat prateni na Kings Cross vo Sydney, zatoa sto tamu Natemago caruva, a ne vo nasi sveti crkvi od MPC. Citajte moi statii na Makedonska Nacija ili odete na mn.mk


Aleksandar Dzepovski:- Bill, gotovi se. Nema kaj da mrdat. Sega ce se sozdade brgu i Narodna policija. koj ce trese gluposti ili pravi problemi, doma ce ims eide i nosovite ce im se krsat

Aleksandar Dzepovski:- Ti i taa Cavkata na Drago ce platite mnogu. Ce go prokolnete denot koga ste se rodile i koga ste se fatile vo igra so djavolot da mu sluzite so tie vasi smrdlivi kompaniski asocijaciii vmetnati vo crkvata. Za kuso vreme toa ce go osetite izrodi bedni. NADVOR OD MPC pod hitno, marerjalisti i kreteni mizerni. Site tie vasi djavolstini se polni so zloba, svalerstvo, zaviduvanje i sto ti ne najloso. Crknete dusmani ednas za sekogas, MPC bila i ce bide na Makedoncite, ne na kompaniski progrcki imbicili kako VAS.

Dzepovski certainly admires himself:

https://www.facebook.com/#!/media/se...8824687&type=3

[Prilepcanka]

yes he sure does Vangelovski he looks like Chopper Reid's evil twin

[Vangelovski]

yes he sure does Vangelovski he looks like Chopper Reid's evil twin

A comical version maybe