The Macedonian Minority in Bulgaria

[Risto the Great]

So we can break rule number 1??? and that is ok.

It is never OK.
That is why I call the idiots who perpetuate "FYROMisms" as FYROMIANS.

[Vangelovski]

So we can break rule number 1??? and that is ok.


"Its called self-reflection"
you are doing what the bulgo's want, dividing your own, with the abuse, so they may take over. Reflect on that young man.

Chiche, you need to reflect on what I actually wrote before you dribble off your next post.

More broadly, its time to start reflecting on why Macedonia is so F'd up and why there is no light at the end of the tunnel. We are responsible for our own problems. We need to identify them and fix them.

Finally, traitors who accept name negotiations and name changes and what have you, might as well be called fyromians. They have accepted it, they want it and they want to force it onto the rest of us.

Clear that muddled head of yours, its becoming tiresome.

[George S.]

Chiche you are ignoring the substance of the argument & that is there is a subtle difference between the bulgarians & macedonians.I'm not talking here of language or other differences i'm talking of Identity & nationalism.Macedonians don't care much for their identity & they will change their name & let the politicians do it for them Example they are FyromiansSimilar Mcedonians do not have nationalism in them nor can it be imbibed in them
there seems to be a void & nothing can fill the national consciousness.People are so apathetic aka chiche they don't care about anyone but themselves.They are just happy to coast along with no responsiblity for anything.No need to fight for freedom or freedom from slavery.Yes there are many differences between macedonia & bulgaria.The people of macedonia are the problem their sense of values don't seem to be there there is a sense of indifference from so many including chiche.Is it self imposed or imposed condition by the various conquerors.My Conclusion the mental state can be a general self imposed & conditioned over time by various factors.THe people are under a stupour of slavery mental state .The can't get out of That's why we have apogists to say that what can you expect that is the best they can do.Sound familiar chiche.In other words the wind was out of them,they are powereless & they don't know what to do.The biggest thing is admitting to their wrongedness which is a barrier to their development of their mental state.Hence the retarded responses from some fyromians.

[Chiche]

So we can break rule number 1??? and that is ok.


"Its called self-reflection"
you are doing what the bulgo's want, dividing your own, with the abuse, so they may take over. Reflect on that young man.

[Vangelovski]

Lad you cannot awaken a nation by abusing its people, get real! they will turn on you, the Abuser!!!

The latest comment said "Macedonian's are stupid", that includes You and Me


(1) The national-ethnic and cultural-linguistic identity of the Macedonian people is historically Macedonian, and derives its character from the native, indigenous and geographic homeland of the Macedonians, which is called Macedonia. To ensure that their human rights, integrity and heritage are appropriately respected, the only nouns and adjectives acceptable when reference is made to the above character and identity markers is Macedon, Macedonia, Macedonian and Macedonians.

MTO Rule1, above: Yet many of you call our people fyromians!!!! Outsiders cannot call us names, but we can!!!! Hypocritical!!!!!!!!!!

Chiche, you have a very shallow understanding of what is actually going on here. When a Greek calls us a fyromian, he is trying to deny our identity. The only instance that I've seen anyone here do it is when they are making the point that a specific person or group of people who happen to be Macedonians are actually working at deconstructing our identity and do not deserve to be called Macedonians because they are anti-Macedonian themselves.

When a Macedonian does something stupid, like agree to the Interim Accord, it is stupid and they are stupid - plain and simple.

[Chiche]

Lad you cannot awaken a nation by abusing its people, get real! they will turn on you, the Abuser!!!

The latest comment said "Macedonian's are stupid", that includes You and Me


(1) The national-ethnic and cultural-linguistic identity of the Macedonian people is historically Macedonian, and derives its character from the native, indigenous and geographic homeland of the Macedonians, which is called Macedonia. To ensure that their human rights, integrity and heritage are appropriately respected, the only nouns and adjectives acceptable when reference is made to the above character and identity markers is Macedon, Macedonia, Macedonian and Macedonians.

MTO Rule1, above: Yet many of you call our people fyromians!!!! Outsiders cannot call us names, but we can!!!! Hypocritical!!!!!!!!!!

[Vangelovski]

The constant bad comments about the Macedonian people saddens me to the core.

Its called self-reflection. Its the only way you can improve.

If you want a pat on the back no matter what, there are many other places you can visit. But none of them will open your eyes to the disaster that Macedonia has become - they only seek to perpetuate it. We seek to end and reverse it through education and awareness.

[Chiche]

"the bulgarians aren't as stupid as the macedonians"

I want to take you people serious and participate but starting to feel I made a mistake to register on this forum. The constant bad comments about the Macedonian people saddens me to the core.

[George S.]

the bulgarians aren't as stupid as the macedonians.The bulgarians know how to preserve their soveregnity by keeping the minorities in control.Something the macedonians can't do.
Macedonia having normal relations with bulgaria? when did it ever have good relations.Bulgaria had allways irrendist claims on the whole of macedonia.

[makedonche]

RTG
It's a bit short isn't it?........several thousand other reasins still missing!

[Risto the Great]

Reasons why Macedonia can't have normal relations with Bulgaria

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/21987/49/

Although one can certainly come up with several fold more reasons why Skopje and Sofia have not been able to normalize their relations, here are ten that come to mind right from the start.

1. Macedonians at home spent majority of their WW2 fighting against Bulgarian soldiers. Macedonian partisans engaged the Germans mostly in major battles outside of Macedonia, in other parts of the then Yugoslavia.

2. In 1913 Macedonia was split in 3 parts (Vardar, Pirin, Aegean). Due to the split, the remains of one of the greatest Macedonian revolutionaries Goce Delcev (died 1903) found itself on the 'other' side, in present Bulgaria. Official Sofia in 1946 sent Delcev's remains to the rightful owners, the Government of Macedonia in Skopje. Today official Sofia claims him as "Bulgarian". Why give him up if he is your own, and equally important, why claim him 60 years later?

3. Bulgaria while protecting their Jewish minority, was responsible for rounding up and sending to concentration camps the Jewish population from Macedonia and Thrace (present Greece). Macedonia lost 98% of its Jewish population. All of the gold, art and jewelry was stolen by Bulgarian soldiers and sent to Sofia. Just a fortnight ago (October 7th), Jewish leaders from Israel told the Bulgarian Government in Sofia that "saving your own Jews but murdering others still makes you a murderer". There goes Sofia's hope that everyone has amnesia.

4. Official Bulgarian census in 1946 listed 252,908 Macedonians living in Bulgaria. Official census in 1956 somehow listed less, 187,789 ethnic Macedonians, concentrated in the Pirin region. In 2011, official Sofia counted 1,600 Macedonians! For the next census, Sofia will follow Athens and claim it has no minorities.

5. When visiting Bulgaria, in particularly major holiday destinations , one is able to view dozens of TV channels from all of Bulgaria's neighbors. The only channels missing (scrambled) are those from Macedonia.

6. Just like in Greece, Bulgaria too does not allow Macedonians to register a political party and take part in Parliament elections. The Macedonians have taken Bulgaria to Human Rights court in Strasbourg twice, won both times, but still cannot register their party.

7. Bulgaria first recognized Macedonia, at the same time did not recognize the language which automatically created tensions between the two countries.

8. Bulgaria wanted to help Macedonia during the Greek embargo and opened its port in Burgas to Macedonian companies. This nice gesture was conditioned - official Skopje must stop its communication with Macedonians in Bulgaria.

9. After 2000, Bulgaria decided to create a "minority" in Macedonia, Serbia, Moldavia (even Albania) by issuing passports and citizenships to Macedonians. According to Macedonians and Serbs who have received Bulgarian passports, the entire procedure was done in less than two months involving little to no documentation at all.

10. A typical court case of divorced parents seeking a custody of their daughter turned into a circus case because the mother (Spaska Mitrova) had recently received a Bulgarian passport. Mitrova's new passport meant the bombastic arrival of two dozen journalists from Sofia at a small court house in Gevgelija to cover the case and cheer on Spaska Mitrova.

[United MKD]

btw, can you represent Macedonia if you're the passport holder of a foreign country?

Yeah, I'd say alot of our internationals have dual passports. Some that I know is Pandev has an Italian passport, Lazevski, Todorovski, Ristic and Djurovski have Serb, Georgievski has an Aussie passport, Demiri has a Swiss and I'm sure there are a few more who hold Bulgarian passports that we do not know of atm.

[Momce Makedonce]

Really?? He is actually willing to do that?? I was looking forward to seeing him play in the best league in the world but not at that cost. He obviously does not have a lot of self respect. His not the first one and wont be the last one either. Its a bit of a common trait for the modern Macedonians to not care at all, seen it myself.

[Phoenix]

Don't blame Popov tbh, when half of Macedonians have Bulgarian passports why not Popov who has only one chance to play in the most prestigious leage of all - the Premier League. It's not his fault we are ranked 102nd in the world and this is the only way it is going to work, unfortunately.

I prefer the 'other half' that don't sell their identity like some useless commodity...the vast majority of the World don't play in the EPL either...get on with it.

I doubt if Popov is totally immune from the criticism surrounding Macedonia's football ranking...clearly he has no 'respect' for the country he represents...btw, can you represent Macedonia if you're the passport holder of a foreign country?

I reckon its a fuckin disgrace and I can't believe people are lining up to justify the actions of this self loathing bastard.

[United MKD]

But then this is the same logic that applies to Macedonians who work in the "Premier league of toilet cleaners" in the UK etc. with their Bulgarian passports as well. What is the difference UMKD?

In a way there is no difference but I bet 99% of all Macedonians including in this forum, that if they were in Popov's shoes would do the exact same thing - try to find an avenue to complete the deal to play in England. He tried and failed getting a visa because of our low ranking so next option is using a Bulgarian passport. I'm not saying it's right but when you're Macedonian you have to deal with this sort of crap.

Gledate kako poleka erodira nasiot identitet, malku po malku nekoj ne jadat ili vo odredeni instanci sami se jademe.